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this is great news! - finally ill be able to plug in my optical 5.1 speakers and get HD video and awesome ... stereo

I hope piggybacked onto this if it comes through is at least 5.1 output - maybe more

5.1 has been around at least since DVD - it seems baffling iTunes has missed this segment - especially with an audio optical out - seems overkill on the hardware.

If this means a resolution bump and extra audio output ill be happier.

Blu-ray in itself excites me like a wet banana.

:apple:
 
I can even tell a HUGE difference from 720p to 1080p and on a 24 inch screen even! I am supposed to wear glasses but even with my glasses off I can still tell a huge difference I mean it drives me crazy to watch anything in SD because the resolution is so bad. When I watch something I want the quality to be good enough to let me read a poster in the background of a scane or see a spec of dust on the road etc. I really can't wait until someday in the future when we all watch movies in 8k resolutions haha. Oh and no offense or anything, I guess I understand I know some people that really just don't care, I have some friends who are really impacted by a sorta placebo effect of owning a flat screen tv, they think everything looks better on it even though some of the videos they watch have absolutely dreadful quality :(
 
I really doubt Blu-Ray audio is going to fare any better than SACD or DVD-A. Yeah the quality might be better, but playing your music on a disc is so 90s...

SACD and DVD-A were expensive to produce. SACD's DSD required expensive software and hardware to record, edit, and master. DVD-A required MLP (expensive to license) to contain 6 channels of 24/96 in DVD's limited bitrate. Playback for both formats required special hardware/firmware.

Blu-Ray's bitrate is high enough to handle 15 channels of 24/96 or 7 channels of 24/192 (I don't know if that's actually supported). All LPCM. No expensive codecs to license. Supposedly BD-A requires nothing special to playback. It is my understanding that it will play on any Blu-Ray player no matter what profile it is.

tl;dr - It won't matter how well it sells. If it doesn't require anything special to produce/reproduce, then BD-A will exist as long as Blu-Ray exists.

OK, then there's the ripping thing. Well, you couldn't do it directly with either DVD-A or SACD, but DualDisc (2-sided) and hybrid (2-layer) contained regular CD audio. There's also the free-download thing that comes with many vinyl LPs now. I don't know if BD-A will offer any of these things, but it would certainly be nice.
 
I'd love a modicum of organization to apps in general - both in the store and on our computers. As it is, it's just a hodgepodge of everything in one window. Since iTunes already has great tagging techniques for songs and videos, why not apps?
 
Ether you are lying or must people have really bad eyesight... I can even tell a HUGE difference from 720p to 1080p and on a 24 inch screen even! I am supposed to wear glasses but even with my glasses off I can still tell a huge difference I mean it drives me crazy to watch anything in SD because the resolution is so bad. When I watch something I want the quality to be good enough to let me read a poster in the background of a scane or see a spec of dust on the road etc. I really can't wait until someday in the future when we all watch movies in 8k resolutions haha. Oh and no offense or anything, I guess I understand I know some people that really just don't care, I have some friends who are really impacted by a sorta placebo effect of owning a flat screen tv, they think everything looks better on it even though some of the videos they watch have absolutely dreadful quality :(

I agree with the quality hence why I own blu ray drives and I'm all for the newest, latest, greatest thing but what I'm saying is when we had people at a normal viewing distance from the TV (we had a couch in the store they sat on) and we switched between a blu ray dvd and a standard dvd and an HD dvd disappointingly people did not see a difference. Up close, yes, they saw a difference but from couch distance most people didn't see the difference.

The reason I say "disappointingly" is because the sales guys had to give so many people this demo an hour and they wanted at least one blu ray or hd dvd drive sale a day per salesman. Most people just stuck with buying a standard dvd player.
 
What kind of tagging does iTunes use for MP3s?

I know winamp supports idv2 and 3 and whatnot. I'm just curious to know if there's anything else out there.
 
Why would iTunes need Blu Ray support? Surely DVD Player is the app of choice for that?
 
yes, finally visual organization of the iphone/ipod apps! i hope you can also configure the apps on the iphone this way. to organize the apps on the phone is a pain in the neck right now.

concerning blueray: i don't care, as the content ist still way too expensive.
 
actually 720p as the name suggest is 1280x720 though most 720p tv's actually are 1366x768. but if 1366x768 was a res it would be 768p not 720p thats why most 720p's offer 1080i which the tv down reses to 1366x768 which is slightly higher then 720p.

Most low end market HDTV are 1366x768 because is more cheap to use an LCD produce both to pc and tv. 1366x768 is a resolution used in many pc LCDs.

1080i as the name suggests is 1920x1080 but instead of been progressive (1080p) is interlaced, meaning that the frame is refresh line by line.

"However these HDTVs, while accepting a 1080i signal scales it down to the panel size of 1366x768 as these are physically incapable of displaying 1920x1080 resolutions." wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i
 
iPhone app organiser sounds great, it is something i have been waiting for.

Blu-Ray support i don't care so much about because i prefer to use another system to rip blu-rays to mkv for use in plex. I suppose it means i can cut down on the number of machines running in the house.

Now what i do want to see is a wish list for apps in the app store (I currently have to drag urls into a folder on my desktop to 'check later').

More importantly i would like to see tabbed browsing in the iTunes store or preferably the iTunes store accessible via safari. Navigation in the itunes store is quite intuitive but the one page at a time limit and no ability to quickly jump to previous pages not in the bread-crumbs is an annoyance.
 
What would iTunes do with a Blu-Ray disc anyway? Wouldn't Blu-Ray support being added to DVD Player (which would then need to be renamed, I guess) make more sense?

Unless DVD Player is being merged into iTunes. I don't see any new DVD Player features or refinements listed for SL, so I guess it's always possible that in the final release, once iTunes 9 has been released, DVD Player will be discontinued.

I hope not though.

Exactly. This rumor sounds highly unlikely to me due to the details involved. Since when does iTunes have ANYTHING to do with ANY disc media? DVDs are played by a DVD player, not by iTunes. The ONLY way you'll be able to play them in any form in iTunes is to use something like Handbrake to encode them into MP4 (M4V). Furthermore, why would Apple shoot themselves in the foot by offering Blu-Ray playback through iTunes when the entire goal of iTunes is to get you to buy movies, tv shows and music from the iTunes store. Buying Blu-Ray Discs is completely counter-productive to the goal of iTunes. I might believe that an updated DVD player (or more likely a new BD Player program) might be offered with Snow Leopard simply do to user demand and the fact Apple is look pretty darn SAD in mid-2009 by not offering any BD support when it's now the defacto standard for HD video.

iTunes, thus far, has not been able to offer squat for purchasable HD movies and having watched with interest for anything good popping up and finding very little, I'd say there's at least a chance they realize that Hollywood has little to no interest in letting them compete with Blu-Ray. The studios probably figure it'd just lead to more consumer confusion at this point (good riddance HD-DVD) and while some of us would probably love the option (AppleTV can only handle 720P and some of us don't WANT another disc format with irritating long un-skippable FBI warnings, advertisements galore for other movies, slow startup times and retarded menu systems that waste your time when all you want to do is start the darn movie already. It's getting simpler to rip BD movies and re-encode into something useful that can be stored on a hard drive, but it's still mostly a PITA.

Something that might be useful to consumers would be an updated Mac Mini that can handle 1080P, includes a Blu-Ray drive, HDMI output and having Front Row updated to handle AppleTV style rentals (you cannot rent most HD movies from iTunes...only the ones you can buy which aren't many, while AppleTV has several hundred, if not thousands to pick from, but only to rent, which sucks. Anything you can rent on AppleTV, you should be able to buy and for less than Blu-Ray. Otherwise, it's not economical.) But a Mac Mini with a built-in Blu-Ray drive would solve part of the problem (you could at least play your BD movies in full HD, even if you cannot buy many from iTunes; the player could then automatically (or nearly so; I'm sure a code would be involved) download an SD version for your library and iPod/iPhone/Mobile playback while you watch your movie.

While all that would be useful, again it would cut into Apple's iTunes store sales/rentals, so it's hard to imagine Apple actually doing any of it. They do claim they make very little from software, though, so a BD/iTunes/Mobile option would at least be a bit of an incentive to buy the updated AppleTV/Mini thing and maybe another iPod/Touch too. That I could believe would be an incentive for them to do it. They like hardware sales.

The only problem I see is that the current Mini costs too much as an AppleTV. Devices like the Popcorn Hour A-110 are more in-line with current AppleTV prices, not Mac Mini prices. Still, an updated AppleTV with a hardware decoding chip to offload the CPU and a BD drive could be done for under $500 (maybe even $299 just like the current model given its aging overpriced status). I own two AppleTV units and I'd still buy one if it could handle full 1080P and had a Blu-Ray drive and cost less than $500. I'd just move one of the old AppleTV units to another secondary room that has a smaller TV and put the new one in the main home theater room.

You are missing the point here. If you buy music off of iTunes the quality is pretty bad and the only purpose of SACD's DVD-A and BD-A is to supply audio that is a LOT better then cd sound quality is is for audiophiles that have high end equipment and want to hear better sound quality something you cannot do with a computer or downloaded files.

Actually, 256kbit variable bit-rate AAC is pretty darn GOOD sound quality (indistinguishable from the source material in ALL double blind testing). I used to know one of the guys that helped invent AAC and his scientific testing data was very clear. I'm sure you THINK otherwise, but I'd bet money you couldn't tell any differences better than pure chance in a series of double blind tests. Really, that's money in the bank. It's been proven time and time again that so-called audiophiles often fool themselves into thinking they're hearing things that aren't there. Redbook CD is already well beyond the capability of human hearing in frequency response and therefore higher sampling rates are useless (you cannot hear those frequencies above 20kHz PERIOD) and unless you are playing music at volume levels that would cause your hearing to be damaged, it's unlikely you'll hear (let alone be able to record in most environments) more than 90dB of dynamic range to begin with. More than 2-channels of playback can be handy, but most recordings are not made in multi-channel and most pop recordings that are tend to sound gimmicky (ping-pong). The real reason most SACD recordings sound so good is because actual care was taken in the master recording process for those albums, which is simply not true of many mainstream recordings. Suffice to say, there are some truly high-end recordings available on the lowly compact disc (I have many Japanese Anime Orchestral soundtracks that would make most people's jaws drop).

You will now tell me how you most certain CAN hear those differences and they are HUGE and so on, but again, I state without any doubt in my mind that you would fail a proper double blind test because EVERYONE before you has failed. Entire companies exist to cater to the imagination and musings of audiophiles. They used to sell green marker pens for obscene prices (they were just regular markers, BTW) and audiophiles gushed over how much better CDs sounded when their edges were painted green. There was no scientific basis or reasoning to such a thing, but snake-oil knows no bounds.

There IS a good reason to RECORD with more than 16-bits, however and that reason is headroom. The last thing you want when recording live music is to have clipping due to a headroom issue. 24-bits gives insane amounts of headroom and pretty much ensures you will never get clipping due to the input side of things not having enough headroom to accommodate even the poorest of soundboard settings. Some say the higher frequency sampling rates are useful to avoid brick wall filtering, but oversampling was invented over 25 years ago to achieve the same thing. It's simply unnecessary, but the industry knows that it sounds good on paper to audiophiles and they'll do whatever it takes to separate them from their money. Hence the ridiculous overkill of SACD (which is a failure everywhere except for classical music where most audiophiles live and breathe).

Before you accuse me of being deaf, know that I have ribbon speakers that use the same ribbons as $50,000 Genesis II speakers with a custom active crossover and over 500 watts per channel total into 4ohms. I got them when my hearing was still 'perfect' with full response. I've heard all kinds of audiophile equipment and followed the "high-end" rags for years. It was fun to get excited about junk, but it was all just fantasy (well speakers are very real, at least and where people should be putting most of their money). Blind testing proves all. I find I'm much happier listening to MUSIC instead of RECORDINGS these days.
 
I don't see how adding the ability for iTunes to access more than 4~ gigs of memory would make it faster.

(referring to making it 64 bit)

It would make it a bit faster by allowing the use of 64-bit registers, not by accessing more memory.

But it would bloat it even more by making the pointers in the program 64-bit instead of 32.
 
Exactly. This rumor sounds highly unlikely to me due to the details involved. Since when does iTunes have ANYTHING to do with ANY disc media?
Ripping and burning audio CDs sounds like disc media to me, but never mind.

iTunes updates usually go hand in hand with QuickTime updates, and maybe it's actually the QuickTime Player, not iTunes, that will be taking over the responsibilities of the DVD Player, plus Blu-ray playback.

Right now, multimedia on Macs is scattered across multiple apps... you've got iTunes for audio and video playback, CD-ripping and music library management, you've got QuickTime for video and audio playback, the DVD Player for disc-based media, Front Row for all of the above... and on top of that most people have VLC Player for all the formats that Macs don't handle natively. In Windows, the Media Player handles all the duties of DVD Player+QuickTime+iTunes+VLC, and Media Center does the same things but in Front Row style with big text and remote control support.

So why not get rid of at least some of this overlapping/redundancy and merge DVD/Blu-ray playback with the QT Player? Both are video players with fullscreen capabilities and transport controls. The fact that one plays streamed or downloaded files and the other plays discs is irrelevant. I mean, what's the alternative if they plan to add Blu-ray support? Should they keep the name DVD Player? Should they rename it to Disc Media Player? DVD-now-featuring-Blu-ray-Player? Meh.
 
Apple is gonna add blue ray support to quicktime and you can rent blue rays from the apple store!:apple:

Ripping and burning audio CDs sounds like disc media to me, but never mind.

iTunes updates usually go hand in hand with QuickTime updates, and maybe it's actually the QuickTime Player, not iTunes, that will be taking over the responsibilities of the DVD Player, plus Blu-ray playback.

Right now, multimedia on Macs is scattered across multiple apps... you've got iTunes for audio and video playback, CD-ripping and music library management, you've got QuickTime for video and audio playback, the DVD Player for disc-based media, Front Row for all of the above... and on top of that most people have VLC Player for all the formats that Macs don't handle natively. In Windows, the Media Player handles all the duties of DVD Player+QuickTime+iTunes+VLC, and Media Center does the same things but in Front Row style with big text and remote control support.

So why not get rid of at least some of this overlapping/redundancy and merge DVD/Blu-ray playback with the QT Player? Both are video players with fullscreen capabilities and transport controls. The fact that one plays streamed or downloaded files and the other plays discs is irrelevant. I mean, what's the alternative if they plan to add Blu-ray support? Should they keep the name DVD Player? Should they rename it to Disc Media Player? DVD-now-featuring-Blu-ray-Player? Meh.

Right on!
 
unless you are playing music at volume levels that would cause your hearing to be damaged, it's unlikely you'll hear (let alone be able to record in most environments) more than 90dB of dynamic range to begin with.
And the great irony with regards to dynamic range is of course that due to the loudness wars, all music released after the mid 90's is brickwall mastered. We have 24- and 32-bit audio, but we've never needed that resolution less because the brickwall-mastered content only uses the top 8 bits or silence.

Here's some old school content that makes good use of the dynamic range...

04.1.gif


Here's Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca"...

10.1.gif
 
Just give me an iTunes server and I'll be happy.

Yes! Well even better than that would be the ability to share a library across many computers. Edit your library on one computer, it changes everywhere. Sync your iDevice at any computer. DRM lets you authorize 5 devices, so I don't see why apple can't do this.

Also, in regards to bloat, iTunes is Apple's most important application and it should be treated as such. iTunes should be built to organize all my media, except still photographs I guess. They've added support for different media, but not the ability to organize it. Why would I want to assign an "Album Artist" to my copy of Caddyshack!? Lets start at dedicated tags for different types of media and with Apple dropping the notion that 100% of all content comes from iTunes music store. Then lets get DVD importing, TV Show and Movie recognition and auto tagging (similar to CDDB).

Somebody has to lead us out of the era of physical media, it should be Apple.
 
Exactly. This rumor sounds highly unlikely to me due to the details involved. Since when does iTunes have ANYTHING to do with ANY disc media? DVDs are played by a DVD player, not by iTunes. The ONLY way you'll be able to play them in any form in iTunes is to use something like Handbrake to encode them into MP4 (M4V). Furthermore, why would Apple shoot themselves in the foot by offering Blu-Ray playback through iTunes when the entire goal of iTunes is to get you to buy movies, tv shows and music from the iTunes store. Buying Blu-Ray Discs is completely counter-productive to the goal of iTunes. I might believe that an updated DVD player (or more likely a new BD Player program) might be offered with Snow Leopard simply do to user demand and the fact Apple is look pretty darn SAD in mid-2009 by not offering any BD support when it's now the defacto standard for HD video.


As you might have heard there were rumors that apple was getting rid of some apps aka DVD Player and so on and maybe putting everything into iTunes which would make sense. Also the fact that quicktime can now convert even without a pro license. Think of this, what if you could rip your dvd within itunes as easy as ripping music for your iTunes.

Blu-Ray Support also makes sense they might for example just put the Digital Copy that sometimes comes with a BluRay as a extra DVD directly on the BluRay and you could either import it or watch the BluRay since like I speculated before that DVD Player will be in iTunes now as a full plackage....
 
I'm not surprised at iTunes 9.0 adding Blu-ray support. The current iMac and Mac Pro desktop line and the MacBook Pro laptops already have all the pieces in place add HDCP support, and it's possible we could see an add-on to MacOS X 10.6 to enable full HDCP functionality, starting with the next-generation MacBook Pro models due circa October 2009.
 
Actually, 256kbit variable bit-rate AAC is pretty darn GOOD sound quality (indistinguishable from the source material in ALL double blind testing). I used to know one of the guys that helped invent AAC and his scientific testing data was very clear. I'm sure you THINK otherwise, but I'd bet money you couldn't tell any differences better than pure chance in a series of double blind tests. Really, that's money in the bank. It's been proven time and time again that so-called audiophiles often fool themselves into thinking they're hearing things that aren't there. Redbook CD is already well beyond the capability of human hearing in frequency response and therefore higher sampling rates are useless (you cannot hear those frequencies above 20kHz PERIOD) and unless you are playing music at volume levels that would cause your hearing to be damaged, it's unlikely you'll hear (let alone be able to record in most environments) more than 90dB of dynamic range to begin with. More than 2-channels of playback can be handy, but most recordings are not made in multi-channel and most pop recordings that are tend to sound gimmicky (ping-pong). The real reason most SACD recordings sound so good is because actual care was taken in the master recording process for those albums, which is simply not true of many mainstream recordings. Suffice to say, there are some truly high-end recordings available on the lowly compact disc (I have many Japanese Anime Orchestral soundtracks that would make most people's jaws drop).

You will now tell me how you most certain CAN hear those differences and they are HUGE and so on, but again, I state without any doubt in my mind that you would fail a proper double blind test because EVERYONE before you has failed. Entire companies exist to cater to the imagination and musings of audiophiles. They used to sell green marker pens for obscene prices (they were just regular markers, BTW) and audiophiles gushed over how much better CDs sounded when their edges were painted green. There was no scientific basis or reasoning to such a thing, but snake-oil knows no bounds.

There IS a good reason to RECORD with more than 16-bits, however and that reason is headroom. The last thing you want when recording live music is to have clipping due to a headroom issue. 24-bits gives insane amounts of headroom and pretty much ensures you will never get clipping due to the input side of things not having enough headroom to accommodate even the poorest of soundboard settings. Some say the higher frequency sampling rates are useful to avoid brick wall filtering, but oversampling was invented over 25 years ago to achieve the same thing. It's simply unnecessary, but the industry knows that it sounds good on paper to audiophiles and they'll do whatever it takes to separate them from their money. Hence the ridiculous overkill of SACD (which is a failure everywhere except for classical music where most audiophiles live and breathe).

Before you accuse me of being deaf, know that I have ribbon speakers that use the same ribbons as $50,000 Genesis II speakers with a custom active crossover and over 500 watts per channel total into 4ohms. I got them when my hearing was still 'perfect' with full response. I've heard all kinds of audiophile equipment and followed the "high-end" rags for years. It was fun to get excited about junk, but it was all just fantasy (well speakers are very real, at least and where people should be putting most of their money). Blind testing proves all. I find I'm much happier listening to MUSIC instead of RECORDINGS these days.


Everyone, including hi end manufacturers know that nobody hears beyond 20k. But if you sample at 192k you can use better filtering and jitter goes down for majority of the DAC's out there the higher you go. So it's for lower jitter (which is audible they say) and better filtering.

About tweeters which go up to 50k, ofc nobody hears the extra range, the only reason is that a tweeter which breaks at 20k sounds (usually) worse than a tweeter which breaks at 50k. So since most tweeters deal with the range 4k-20k you are hearing all those 16k range at better quality if you use a tweeter which breaks at 50k.

About AAC 256 vs studio master at 192k I have no clue if the difference is audible. I had a 15k$ high end stereo and I tried 256k mp3 vs CD and couldn't hear any noticable difference. But a 15k$ rig is not a true high end. When you are listening to music with a 500k$ rig I'm pretty sure you'll be able to hear the difference. But for people listening to music with (even high quality) earphones, they are only fooling themselves if they think 256k AAC sounds worse than a CD.

And you are right about speakers ofc. A 500k$ speaker is night and day better than a 100k$ one. About driver units of speakers though, they are the least important part of a speaker if you ask me. Since a 500$ speaker can use the same midrange unit as a 30k$ speaker but the midrange will sound much much better on a 30k$ one. The enclosure usually is where it most matters. Drivers, except tweeters, are pretty much the same as they were 30 years ago.
 
All Macs should have Blu-ray drives and support for both movie playbk and read-write on BR-R and BR-RW disks. Or else a deal breaker!

Minor point - but the abbreviated names for the discs are "BD-R" and "BD-RE".

17-130-011-02.jpg
17-130-015-02.jpg


Blu-ray Disc recordable (or BD-R) refers to two optical disc formats that can be recorded with an optical disc recorder. BD-R discs can be written to once, whereas BD-RE can be erased and re-recorded multiple times.

Disc capacities are 25 GB (23.31 GiB) for single layer discs and 50 GB (46.61 GiB) for double layer discs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable


It would make it a bit faster by allowing the use of 64-bit registers, not by accessing more memory.

But it would bloat it even more by making the pointers in the program 64-bit instead of 32.

More likely the speedups would be due to the fact that x64 has more 16-bit and 32-bit registers than x86.

x86 already has some 64-bit registers and data types - and if 64-bit data is needed by the program it can be used in 32-bit mode. (x86 has full support for 64-bit floating point, and SSE will do some 64-bit integer operations)

For exactly the reason of "bloat", you don't extend all integers to 64-bit if it's not needed. (For example, CD-audio has 16-bit integer samples. You'd probably be wasting space (bloat) converting the samples to 32-bit or 64-bit.)
 
As you might have heard there were rumors that apple was getting rid of some apps aka DVD Player and so on and maybe putting everything into iTunes which would make sense.
Right, except that iTunes is a bloated hog. If I launch some video clip or AIFF/WAV file on my desktop I want something like the QuickTime Player that will load almost instantly and give me the basic playback controls, nothing else. I don't want to start some music library behemoth that takes 20 seconds to launch and insists on importing every file it touches to my media library.

DVD/Blu-ray playback in QuickTime X, yes please. In iTunes, hell no.
 
this probably means new iMac resolution will be bumped to 1920 x 1080.

I would personally love the iPhone app org. right now organizing iPhone apps is a nightmare. I would love to set one page as productivity app, one as game app, etc.

Why not 1920 x 1200 resolution?

BD support for BD players? That would be expected IF iTunes were the primary source of BD movies. However, what Mac users need is the ability to attach a BD player and play BD movies on the Mac. Eventually, Apple will have to include a drive capable of playing BD movies as well as recording in BD format.
 
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