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I would still rather buy a CD and miss Tower and the stores that carry full catalogue and not just the HITS. If you are near Amoeba (Records) you are close to heaven and you'd be lving in the San Francisco Bay Area or Los Angeles. There is no better!
 
The ultimate advantage that Apple has over the other two. An advantage that Walmart and Best Buy can do NOTHING about. You don't have to drive your car anywhere to go and get your music.
Actually, my idea of iTMS' advantage is a little different. It's open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (unless it's undergoing the rare maintenance or whatnot). And anyone with a computer, internet access, and CC/ PayPal account can shop at will. It's hard to beat the availability of iTMS.

If you are near Amoeba (Records)... There is no better!
FTR, a ton of Tower Records' stores closed down (declared bankruptcy IIRC). That said, I like Amoeba a lot, but I feel like Streetlight Records is much more organized.
 
I can see Apple taking the number two spot by the end of 2008, which is some fantastic growth potential. Kudos to Apple!
 
Do they count the free songs downloaded as sales? I know they say retail sales, but I always receive a emailed receipt for $0.00 for each free song I download, which is sometimes a much as five a week, depending on how hard you search for them. I am just saying, it seems like a way to inflate the numbers easily. Not that I care, good for the iTMS. But say 1 million iPod users a week download the free song on the iTMS home page, thats 13 million more songs a quarter. With reportedly over 100 million iPods sold, I think there are probably more free songs downloaded then that. Either way, I don't mind helping those numbers if they are reported.
 
CDNOW is largely out of business. They now link to Amazon, but I think they have something to do with Columbia House.

CDNOW is part of Amazon and has become a "Preferred Buyers Club" where you can get some CDs in Amazons catalog for a lot cheaper (20 - 30%) than Amazon's regular prices. And you still get the free shipping if you buy over $25 worth.

I don't expect anything but to see Apple's music sales continue to climb until more competitive digital stores appear.

Selling CDs in retail stores is a antiquated selling method for todays media.

  • How many artists have full albums worth buying?
  • What does a CD give you that downloads don't - CD sleeve, that's it
  • Selection in stores is limited (often only new titles)
  • Most albums you can't hear clips before hand
  • They're expensive
  • Searching for a particular song is impossible if you don't know exact details
  • You have to go to store

I heard this nonsense before back in late 90s when online retailers were supposed to put "brick and mortar" stores out of business. Please look at the two top retailers on the list. Both of those stores have good online stores as well, heck you can even order online and pick up at the Best Buy closest to you.

  • Lots of artists have full albums once you get past all the hits and the mainstream and actually listen to the record. Some artists understand what an album is and actually put some time and effort into creating the 10 or 12 tracks.
  • I like CD sleeves and I like the CD. I know I'm not the only one. Even Apple replicates the CD sleeve.
  • Some of the most obscure CDs I've gotten from just walking around the CD store and having something catch my eye. And some record stores (J&R Music in New York is one) have floors dedicated to a genre of music.
  • Have you heard of the listening station? They are back. They usually only have new CDs but Barnes and Noble, some of the Best Buys I've been to you can listen to any CD you find if you scan it.
  • I've seen albums retail on Apple for $13.99 and those were regular albums I could go to the store and buy for the same price, maybe $2 more but then I have the CD and the sleeve and no wait to download. And I've bought CDs from stores for as little as $5.99, good CDs too.
  • Searching for a song? That's what the internet is for. Or the folks who works at the store. Or your friends.
  • God forbid you get out of the house and from around the computer.
 
Once again Steve UPOD. He said at MW07 he had Target "in his sights." He blew past Target with a vengence and took out Amazon in the process and made it more than halfway to the "next target".

He also extremely UPOD by dwelling on the low iTunes purchases per iPod.

Then Apple TV arrived, and he seems to have entirely forgotten to mention home only CPU iTunes sales :)

Oops. Sorry. :D

Rocketman
 
I heard this nonsense before back in late 90s when online retailers were supposed to put "brick and mortar" stores out of business. Please look at the two top retailers on the list. Both of those stores have good online stores as well, heck you can even order online and pick up at the Best Buy closest to you.
I never said they would obsolete them, just I expect to see online delivery continue to rise.

  • Lots of artists have full albums once you get past all the hits and the mainstream and actually listen to the record. Some artists understand what an album is and actually put some time and effort into creating the 10 or 12 tracks.
Not the point, you can still download "full" albums.

  • I like CD sleeves and I like the CD. I know I'm not the only one. Even Apple replicates the CD sleeve.
Yes, I know lots of people that too, but I'm guessing the majority of people only care about the music and any printable equivalents would work.

  • Some of the most obscure CDs I've gotten from just walking around the CD store and having something catch my eye. And some record stores (J&R Music in New York is one) have floors dedicated to a genre of music.
Not sure of your point. I never said digital downloads would replace stores and that they had some advantage, just they would increase.

  • Have you heard of the listening station? They are back. They usually only have new CDs but Barnes and Noble, some of the Best Buys I've been to you can listen to any CD you find if you scan it.
Not a single retailer in my city has this. (yet)
Remember the point wasn't that stores can't improve or do this but I'm guessing more people would rather doing this sitting at home than standing in a store.

  • I've seen albums retail on Apple for $13.99 and those were regular albums I could go to the store and buy for the same price, maybe $2 more but then I have the CD and the sleeve and no wait to download. And I've bought CDs from stores for as little as $5.99, good CDs too.
No one every said you couldn't find deals. But for every deal you could also say they were over charged items at the same store over online options.
My friend you need a faster internet connection. ;)

  • Searching for a song? That's what the internet is for. Or the folks who works at the store. Or your friends.
So what's your point? You say to use the Internet to search, but not download if you have that option? Sure some music stores employees might be helpful, but don't try telling me repeated searches and then sampling is easier in a store.

  • God forbid you get out of the house and from around the computer.
Just a dumb assumption by you.
Ignoring that, pretty sure there are a hell of a lot more cities than there are Walmart, Best Buys. May be an option for you, but not some.

I think you missed the entire point.
I never said digital downloads would replace stores, just I expect to see downloads sales continue to rise.

Do stores have some advantages, yes, but obviously for many people digital downloads provide an adequate solution and offer many advantages over audio stores. (evidenced by online sales).

Do digital downloads have disadvantages, sure. For some like you sleeves, the size of collection, or even the pleasure of browsing in a store, but that doesn't change the fact that these shortcoming might be improved and hence downloads will continue to rise.
 
I'm pretty impressed by Apple's success.

I just recently started buying from the iTMS even though I've had my ipod for 2 years or so and my Mac for a little over a year. It started when I couldn't find one of the indie CD's that I was looking for at Best Buy then then decided just to buy an iTunes card and get it online. Since then I've realized that it's a much better way to get music for my purposes.

I took a look at how I listen to music and realized that all I do with the CD is bring it home and burn it into iTunes and then but the CD in my rack. I never look at the case, nor do I use the CD again unless one of my friends wants to borrow it. Not only that, it's cheaper, I'm not wasting gas, and I'm almost guaranteed to find what I'm looking for.

I'll admit that I am one of those people who likes to buy the entire album since I tend to find and learn to enjoy the under-appreciated songs, but nevertheless.

My questions is, do the iTunes cards that I buy at Best Buy or Walmart count toward their music sales figures?
 
Wow. Even the #1 spot is not far away. iTS music sales just have to grow another 60 % to take over Wal-Mart, which may take 3 years or so, depending on how much iTunes Plus can bring in new customers (I presume that the US iTS is slower than the international iTS growth?). Imagine what bargaining power that gives to Apple when talking to the record companies.

And there have got to be profits in it. Apple already said the iTS was breaking even back when they sold just 50k songs per day. Now it's more like 5.5 million songs per day.

I guess right now Apple are using the profits from music sales to invest in initiatives like Complete My Album, iTunes Plus, TV Shows, Movies, Games - and next up TV Plus (HD) and Movie Rentals? Once all these new offerings have been established, the iTS will surely reach an overall margin as healthy as the iPod or the Mac.

Edit:
Oh, and my personal story. I had never bought much on the iTS (about 3 albums and one Pixar short over the last years), but iTunes Plus has broken all boundaries for me. I've already bought 6 DRM-free albums in the last 3 weeks, plus the 30 cent updates. The one company that will suffer from this is Amazon. I don't see myself buying any more CDs there in the future.
 
A CD gives you DRM free (without paying more, and having your info embedded). CD gives you backup if you computer breaks, without the effort of backing up.

Selection in my local HMV (a road and a half away) is huge compared to the iTS.

Oldies CDs are often cheap-as-chips (£2.99 for an album-ish), and after the original boom, albums drop to a price below that of the iTS


I can assure you that your local HMV doesnt have more music than the iTunes store. Even the UK iTunes store.

Your backup question doesnt make much sense - what happens if the CD snaps or becomes scratched? Dont act like only hard drives break. I have had tons of CDs become unplayable yet never had a hard drive crash.
 
And - a lot of CDs come with annoying copy protection today (less visible on a Mac than on a Windows PC).

By the way, the numbers indicate that the iTS holds 71% of the US music download market right now.
 
iTunes

I took a look at how I listen to music and realized that all I do with the CD is bring it home and burn it into iTunes and then but the CD in my rack. I never look at the case, nor do I use the CD again unless one of my friends wants to borrow it.

I am exactly the same. I used to like buying the CD for the CD itself and the inlay sleeve. However, when studios became lazy and not put any effort into the information in the inlay sleeve, all that was left is the album artwork. Since you can view the artwork on iTunes/iPod, I don't miss CDs at all and I have saved a ton of space. I know people complain about the sound quality on the iTunes Store, but I don't have Superman's hearing to tell the difference, so I'm more than happy with iTunes.
 
BuyMusic.com and their dumba$$ leader Scott Blum will reign supreme still!!!

:p ;) :D

He doesn't live that far from me... I should run over to his house and give him a swift kick in the HOO-HAA for being such a moron and saying that SJ and iTunes are "on the wrong platform".

Did I call him a dumba$$ yet?
 
Maybe you forgot your own point:

Selling CDs in retail stores is a antiquated selling method for todays media.

I was showing how antiquated it was not and for each one of your reasons with the exception of numbers 3 and 6, I thought I had a pretty good response.

I never said they would obsolete them, just I expect to see online delivery continue to rise.

Now I'm not sure how you expect digital downloads to increase if they aren't going to replace a certain amount of retail buying, because people aren't purchasing on iTunes and then buying the CD but maybe I'm wrong.

Not the point, you can still download "full" albums.

Not sure why full is in quotations but I'll work with it. You asked about artists who had full albums worth buying, I said lots of artists do. Never said you couldn't get it from iTunes.

Yes, I know lots of people that too, but I'm guessing the majority of people only care about the music and any printable equivalents would work.

Good point.

Not sure of your point. I never said digital downloads would replace stores and that they had some advantage, just they would increase.

You were speaking to stores limited selection, I was pointing out that in some cases stores have CDs I wouldn't stumble on in iTunes. Is the opposite true as well? Sure, I'll admit that but store selection isn't as limited in bigger markets.

Not a single retailer in my city has this. (yet)
Remember the point wasn't that stores can't improve or do this but I'm guessing more people would rather doing this sitting at home than standing in a store.

My friend you need to move to a bigger city. And in the store, with a listening station, I can listen to a whole track, the whole CD if I want not a 30 second sample.

No one every said you couldn't find deals. But for every deal you could also say they were over charged items at the same store over online options.
My friend you need a faster internet connection. ;)

I wasn't referencing deals, I was speaking to your statement of "they're" being expensive. "They're" not. They vary in price just as the albums on iTunes do. And no matter your connection speed, you still wait. You could simply have mentioned the wait in the store line but instead you say I need a faster connection. Whatever.

So what's your point? You say to use the Internet to search, but not download if you have that option? Sure some music stores employees might be helpful, but don't try telling me repeated searches and then sampling is easier in a store.

I was giving examples of how to find songs, outside of search and listen on iTunes. In fact doing lyric searches, which I don't think you can do on iTunes, I may be wrong, are how I find songs I don't know. And the internet and iTunes are two separate things, I can use one without the other and vice versa.

Just a dumb assumption by you.

And not a dumb assumption when your argument was having to "go to the store" which entails leaving the house. I just figured you didn't want to leave the house.

Ignoring that, pretty sure there are a hell of a lot more cities than there are Walmart, Best Buys. May be an option for you, but not some.

Walmart is working on there being as many Walmarts as cities, give them time. And iTunes isn't an option for some either.

I think you missed the entire point.
I never said digital downloads would replace stores, just I expect to see downloads sales continue to rise.

Do stores have some advantages, yes, but obviously for many people digital downloads provide an adequate solution and offer many advantages over audio stores. (evidenced by online sales).

Evidenced by online sales? What? Sales are on the rise so that's an advantage? How can you cite that when the two largest retailers are still big chains?

iTunes is the only digital store on the list. From the article:
The MusicWatch findings are especially interesting in that 86.2% of the quarter’s music sales were in a physical (CD) format, versus a 13.8% share in downloadable format. Unlike Wal-Mart and Best Buy, iTunes gained share despite the fact that it only sells downloadable content. It leapfrogged CD-heavy competitor Amazon to gain fourth place in January.

Even if, big if and I'll eat my hat if this happens, they were to become number one that doesn't mean people are buying more iTunes tracks than CDs. It means people who download tracks are using iTunes more.

Do digital downloads have disadvantages, sure. For some like you sleeves, the size of collection, or even the pleasure of browsing in a store, but that doesn't change the fact that these shortcoming might be improved and hence downloads will continue to rise.

Outside of virtual reality I don't see iTunes replicating the experience of being at the store. I was merely pointing out the holes in your "facts" so that you don't quote them to other people. Everything has advantages and disadvantages but I'll tell you this, that 86.2% is a large number to displace. I believe it will level out 60/40 in favor of CDs depending on many factors (encoding rates, high speed internet availability, DRM, price and things I haven't even thought of yet) but the beauty is we can both use our iPods. Me to listen to my ripped CDs and you to your inferior (just kidding, seriously) downloaded tracks.
 
Soon to be #1

In store album sales are dropping at 12% per year, while online song downloads are growing at 49% per year. At that rate Apple will be the #1 seller of music sometime next year!!! How do you like them Apples?

Apple ][ Forever!
 
Your backup question doesnt make much sense - what happens if the CD snaps or becomes scratched? Dont act like only hard drives break. I have had tons of CDs become unplayable yet never had a hard drive crash.

I'll guess I'll counter your anecdotal evidence w/my anecdotal evidence. I have a few hundred CDs (some almost 20 years old) and never have any of them become unplayable (let alone snap) from normal usage. And in one 5 year span I had 3 out of 7 HDDs go down.

You alway have back-ups. Maybe that back-up is in the form of original media, or maybe it's a dedicated back-up drive, but should always have redundant copies of anything you aren't willing to delete off your HDD right now.


Lethal
 
In store album sales are dropping at 12% per year, while online song downloads are growing at 49% per year. At that rate Apple will be the #1 seller of music sometime next year!!! How do you like them Apples?

Apple ][ Forever!

Um, those apples are fine. I'll congratulate Apple sometime next year.

...on the 20-30 CDs they have displayed that week. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think we get it: You like to buy your music on CDs in stores.

True on both points. But I usually know what I want if I'm in a CD store so samples usually only help with new CDs which coincidentally are what happen to be on display. Lucky me.
 
Go Go Go Apple! :apple: :D
God i hate Walmart, and didn't they try to make the movie studios not let Apple have the movies online? Ahh this just makes my heart sing ;)
 
you guys can't argue on whether physical music is still important or not.

Or how Digital music will never be the future of music retail...

Just let the (online) sales speak for themselves.
 
You alway have back-ups. Maybe that back-up is in the form of original media, or maybe it's a dedicated back-up drive, but should always have redundant copies of anything you aren't willing to delete off your HDD right now.

Whne you buy a CD, and rip it, you get the back-up for free. With iTunes you have to buy hard drives to back up your music. That adds to the cost of purchasing from iTunes as opposed to buying CDs.
 
...on the 20-30 CDs they have displayed that week. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think we get it: You like to buy your music on CDs in stores.

Apparently some music stores offer listening stations which have every CD in the store. You scan the UPC, and you can listen to the CD.

Having said that I use the internet to research music, then I buy a CD. Usually by ordering it online. I have to wait a few days to get the CD, but that doesn't bother me.
 
Whne you buy a CD, and rip it, you get the back-up for free. With iTunes you have to buy hard drives to back up your music. That adds to the cost of purchasing from iTunes as opposed to buying CDs.

Backing up my entire music collection onto DVD wouldn't take more than a $10 pack of blank discs. Not exactly a significant amount.

(Videos however are another story as they do incur a ton of hard drive space...)

My local FYE has those UPC-listening booths. It's just 20-30 seconds ala iTunes though, not the full song unfortunately.
 
Backing up my entire music collection onto DVD wouldn't take more than a $10 pack of blank discs. Not exactly a significant amount.

(Videos however are another story as they do incur a ton of hard drive space...)

My local FYE has those UPC-listening booths. It's just 20-30 seconds ala iTunes though, not the full song unfortunately.

Factory pressed CD's are far more durable than any CDr or DVDr. They also look a damn sight better on a shelf with the actual artwork. Than a bunch of white boxes with pen on them.

The single benefit of iTunes is:

Actually, my idea of iTMS' advantage is a little different. It's open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (unless it's undergoing the rare maintenance or whatnot). And anyone with a computer, internet access, and CC/ PayPal account can shop at will. It's hard to beat the availability of iTMS.

Availability. And it's obviously a big benefit to a lot of people which is good for Apple.
 
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