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No sympathy for folks tha choose Windows for personal use freely.

Why's that? Lately I've been feeling like I wish I'd never got into the Apple Ecosystem. Its been disappointment after disappointment the past year and a half. The two biggest Apple devices I use are the MBP and iPhone and their software has been absolutely atrocious. The 2016 MBP I got hasn't remained up for more then 3 days since I bought it (internal display always dies when plugging in/out an external monitor). And the iPhone software has been buggy as well (app crashes and slow performance/lag).
 
Why's that? Lately I've been feeling like I wish I'd never got into the Apple Ecosystem. Its been disappointment after disappointment the past year and a half. The two biggest Apple devices I use are the MBP and iPhone and their software has been absolutely atrocious. The 2016 MBP I got hasn't remained up for more then 3 days since I bought it (internal display always dies when plugging in/out an external monitor). And the iPhone software has been buggy as well (app crashes and slow performance/lag).

Sure seems like there's a defect in your MBP, but I can relate. My wife's Lenovo shuts itself off almost every single night since Fall Creators update. I checked the error logs, and nothing shows for why. The wifi is also buggy. It sometimes takes ages to connect when waking from sleep, or you have to manually chose the network, even though "Connect Automatically" is checked every single time. The machine itself has been pretty reliable (no physical component failures since purchase last year), but it's far from a perfect experience either. I've build more Windows machines than I can count, and I can't pin the issues down.
 
I have a Windows 10 touch enabled laptop issued to me from work. It is not a bad laptop. I never use touch, ever. Why? 99% of the apps are not touch friendly. 100% of the ones I use are not. So yeah after playing with paint using touch, for a few min, the experience was over. Maybe if I had a Surface Pro I would use touch more? Doubtful because it again comes to apps that have horrible touch UI. Also used at a tablet, the Surface Pro is bulky and just not as good as a iPad which is lighter, slimmer, has way more battery life and ALL of its apps are touch fantastic.

Also there are many things to NOT like about the Windows 10. DPI scaling is horrible compared to a Mac. Even some of the built in OS parts, like device manager, or Microsoft's own tools like AD users and groups are NOT DPI aware so they look like KRAP on a high dpi monitor that is not running at 100%. You can't control (completely) the update process. I have had my work laptop reboot on me at the wrong times because I had put off the reboot to many times. Then every time there is a big update (twice a year) all this KRAP ad software gets jammed into the start menu....lots of it. Ad's on the lock screen by default. Yes most, not all, can be turned off. I wont even get into the forced telemetry data at some level that can't be turned off.

There is no way I would buy a Windows 10 computer on purpose.
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That is because you are NOT running Windows 10S. You have home, pro, Enterprise or LTSB, all of which support Win32 apps downloaded from any place.

Windows 10S is a new gimped version of Windows that came out in June. You cant buy a copy of Windows 10s. It currently only comes with a single Microsoft Surface model (Surface Laptop) and select Education Channel laptops that Schools can buy. They are all currently low end PC's ($300 or less). Windows 10S can ONLY run UWP apps from the Microsoft store. It can't install Win32 apps. Example Chrome can't be installed since it is a Win32 app. Apple is making a UWP (wrapped) version of iTunes for the store.


Don't know why anyone would run 10s if they didn't have to. I had Win10 Home 64 on my home media computer and it did not survive the last major autoupdate and I started over with Win10 LTSB and can now say goodby to the major unwanted updates.

I will be looking at a new Mac Mini to replace my media computer if Apple ever releases another one!!!
 
Thank you, Baby Jesus. Such a horribly written program.

Apple fans talk about how apple software is superior to Windows but all windows users have to judge this by is ITunes which is utter crap.
???
I complain about almost everything Apple does nowadays, but iTunes isn't something I complain about. Other than it nagging me about updates. I've tried other music library software, and it's all lame in comparison.
 
Yes, shame on them for not pulling out all the stops to deliver their music client to the main competing platform. Next can we complain about them not giving out iMessage to Android devices?
Yes! May be Google should pull out YouTube and Maps from iOS or Amazon should pull out amazon app and amazon prime. After all, nobody should provide similar service to the competing platforms.. right?:rolleyes:
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You do realize that emojis are not created by Apple right? They're part of the Unicode specification. Apple, Google, Microsoft, Samsung and others just work with what's approved and added to the Unicode specification.
Yes. We agree to that. But we don't see Google or Microsoft boasting about it in the keynotes!
 
Sure seems like there's a defect in your MBP, but I can relate. My wife's Lenovo shuts itself off almost every single night since Fall Creators update. I checked the error logs, and nothing shows for why. The wifi is also buggy. It sometimes takes ages to connect when waking from sleep, or you have to manually chose the network, even though "Connect Automatically" is checked every single time. The machine itself has been pretty reliable (no physical component failures since purchase last year), but it's far from a perfect experience either. I've build more Windows machines than I can count, and I can't pin the issues down.

I’ve opened half a dozen cases with Apple, and even now they argue that it’s a known issue.
 
You didn't know it because ELman has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. You can absolutely download and install it from Apple's website. He's referring to Windows 10 S, which is a special version of the OS that is barely used.

Windows S and the App Store is prepping for Windows on ARM and always connected PCs. It may be barely used, but a lot of people are interested in ARM. You will then have battery life of days, not hours, and an always connected computer.

Why even bother. Windows 10s and their store are a complete joke. Who uses Windows because they want to in 2017? PC gamers is about it.

Too everyone else it is a tool they are forced to use at work or a cheap home computer for the "computing" they don't do on a smartphone or tablet.

Not a gamer. Love Windows 10. Not everyone is you.

As a user of Windows 10 and have been since day 1, I have been downloading and installing non windows store software since the beginning. Installed 5 different software packages that are not available from the store last weekend.

I am also a macbook pro user for the last 7 years.

You can not do that on Windows 10S.

No sympathy for folks tha choose Windows for personal use freely.

With each passing year, Apple's product releases get...
  • Slower and slower coming
  • Buggier and buggier when they finally get here
  • Usually remove features that many users want
  • Add things that have no productive value
  • Get more and more expensive.
You want to be trapped in that, I have sympathy for you.
 
Windows is crap.

Virus central and malware central.

Of all the things Windows may be, it really isn't either of these anymore. So long as you are the least bit responsible on your PC, these things aren't a problem. Now if you visit lots of sketchy websites and open random attachments from Nigerian princes, then you may end up with issues.
 
Of all the things Windows may be, it really isn't either of these anymore. So long as you are the least bit responsible on your PC, these things aren't a problem. Now if you visit lots of sketchy websites and open random attachments from Nigerian princes, then you may end up with issues.

Windows computers getting malware is less today but it is still 100x worse than a Mac and this is on Windows 10. I manage our FireEye appliances and 100% of our alerts come from Windows boxes. We have never had a Mac get nailed by something nefarious.
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Why's that? Lately I've been feeling like I wish I'd never got into the Apple Ecosystem. Its been disappointment after disappointment the past year and a half. The two biggest Apple devices I use are the MBP and iPhone and their software has been absolutely atrocious. The 2016 MBP I got hasn't remained up for more then 3 days since I bought it (internal display always dies when plugging in/out an external monitor). And the iPhone software has been buggy as well (app crashes and slow performance/lag).

There is such a thing as bad luck. Apple like any other company is not perfect. I have a @Mac.com email address so I have lived through some ups and down's with Apple's ecosystem.

Currently I have a MacBook Pro 2017 (3 months old) I use for my main computer/work, a 2013 MacBook Pro at home that is almost always docked at my desk with external 4K monitor and a 2015 Mac Mini as a home server, with Drobo attached. All of them run great these days. I am totally invested in iCloud and photos/desktops/documents sync to everything (iPhone X and iPad Air 2). In fact right now everything is simply running perfect in terms of doing what it is supposed to do. iCloud right now has never been better. I was seriously worried about my new MacBook Pro, reading about overheating issues, keyboard problems etc. I have had Zero problems with it. In fact typing on my 2013 MacBook Pro feels odd, squishy and such with the keys being smaller and looser.

Anyhow it sounds like you have had some bad luck with that MacBook. I would wipe it clean and re-install everything.
 
Your missing the point.

Windows is a large market for iTunes and Apple’s associated offerings.

If iTunes for windows is a complete bag of ****, windows users are going elsewhere and Apple lose customers. Same for Android.

Yes, shame on them for not pulling out all the stops to deliver their music client to the main competing platform. Next can we complain about them not giving out iMessage to Android devices?
 
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Your missing the point.

Windows is a large market for iTunes and Apple’s associated offerings.

If iTunes for windows is a complete bag of ****, windows users are going elsewhere and Apple lose customers. Same for Android.

"windows users are going elsewhere"

This assumes they even use iTunes on Windows. I have 3 kids with iPhones. None of them have iTunes installed anywhere. All of their music interaction is on their iPhones. I have no doubt there are Windows user out there with iTunes and some serious music libraries. That said this user type is a dying breed. Also what other local app options do they have on Windows? Groove just closed down and everything else is cloud (Google, Spotify, Pandora etc). I am sure there are some odd Windows apps like WinAmp, Windows media player or some of that old school stuff but that is few and far, far between.
 
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Windows computers getting malware is less today but it is still 100x worse than a Mac and this is on Windows 10. I manage our FireEye appliances and 100% of our alerts come from Windows boxes. We have never had a Mac get nailed by something nefarious.
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There is such a thing as bad luck. Apple like any other company is not perfect. I have a @Mac.com email address so I have lived through some ups and down's with Apple's ecosystem.

Currently I have a MacBook Pro 2017 (3 months old) I use for my main computer/work, a 2013 MacBook Pro at home that is almost always docked at my desk with external 4K monitor and a 2015 Mac Mini as a home server, with Drobo attached. All of them run great these days. I am totally invested in iCloud and photos/desktops/documents sync to everything (iPhone X and iPad Air 2). In fact right now everything is simply running perfect in terms of doing what it is supposed to do. iCloud right now has never been better. I was seriously worried about my new MacBook Pro, reading about overheating issues, keyboard problems etc. I have had Zero problems with it. In fact typing on my 2013 MacBook Pro feels odd, squishy and such with the keys being smaller and looser.

Anyhow it sounds like you have had some bad luck with that MacBook. I would wipe it clean and re-install everything.

Sounds like you and I are more alike then you realize. I’ve got a .mac address and have been a personal Mac owner since the first 12” PowerBook G4 (a user for far longer). I’m currently using the 2016 as my mobile workhorse between my home office and corporate office. I have a 2012 rMBP that I use for Plex and other home media consumption. Ive also got a 2010 MBA for use by the kids. I’ve gone through my ups and downs with Apple (had a terrible 6mo gap where Notes wouldn’t sync between any of my devices). I’m fully bought in on the Apple ecosystem and use all their devices. We’ve cut the cord and only pay for media consumption that’s available via the AppleTV.

But at the end of the day, this 2016MBP, specifically when using it with the LG 5K, is a disaster. Read the forums and reviews on Apple’s own site for the 5K.The MBP/LG5K is a disaster. I wouldn’t be faulting Apple if they didn’t advertise and hype up the 5K during their keynote.
 
Why even bother. Windows 10s and their store are a complete joke. Who uses Windows because they want to in 2017? PC gamers is about it.

Too everyone else it is a tool they are forced to use at work or a cheap home computer for the "computing" they don't do on a smartphone or tablet.

Or professionals in the content creation industry who need powerful computers to do their job. Or people who don't want to pay Apple's inflated prices for computers. Or *gasp* people actually like Windows and don't share your narrow view.
 
With each passing year, Apple's product releases get...
  • Slower and slower coming
  • Buggier and buggier when they finally get here
  • Usually remove features that many users want
  • Add things that have no productive value
  • Get more and more expensive.
You want to be trapped in that, I have sympathy for you.

This sums up my sentiments precisely.

I've been such a big fan of Apple but the last few years have really snapped me back to reality.

Everything from iTunes to iOS to macOS is just becoming a slow and bloated experience. Input blocking from long animation timers, bugs, poor UI design everywhere you look.

I don't get how it's all gone so wrong. Peak Apple (in my opinion) was iTunes 10, iOS 6, and Snow Leopard (though Mavericks was acceptable to me).
 
I can see, much like the identical magnetic poles, that the spiritual twins of dogturd that are iTunes for Windows and the Windows App Store would repel each other.
 
Why even bother. Windows 10s and their store are a complete joke. Who uses Windows because they want to in 2017? PC gamers is about it.

Too everyone else it is a tool they are forced to use at work or a cheap home computer for the "computing" they don't do on a smartphone or tablet.

Yet Windows has over 80% market share. Go figure. You should really try other sites than Apple/Mac/macOS sites...you might learn a thing or two what people do with their Windows PC's.
 
Windows is crap.

Virus central and malware central.
Not 10. The HP I got in January has never been rebuilt, runs great and reliable and no malware or viruses. And I'm no saint on the Internet either.
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Windows could always be described that way. It can (theoretically) do a lot but everything's a bit less than polished. But it works – there's a reason it's used in business and for other serious endeavours. If you think Windows 10 isn't bad, I feel like you would have been fine with most earlier releases of Windows as well.

I came up from Windows 3.11, 95, 98, 2k, ME, 7, and now 10 so I know Windows quite well. It was 98 and ME that brought me to the Mac in 2001. Administered every Windows server from NT 4 to 2008 R2 when I switched over to Linux administration. So you can say I know all 3 OS's (Windows, Mac, and Linux) very intimately.

Win 10, while it does have rough edges (and I could write about them too) is very serviceable. I've been daily driving it since January. No crashes, no reinstalls, nothing. It just runs. The laptop has failed to come out of sleep some times but I can count them on one hand over the last 11 months. The thing is every bit as reliable as my Macbooks have been. Is it perfect? Hell no. But neither have the OS X versions I've used - 10.1 to High Sierra.
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I have a Windows 10 touch enabled laptop issued to me from work. It is not a bad laptop. I never use touch, ever. Why? 99% of the apps are not touch friendly. 100% of the ones I use are not. So yeah after playing with paint using touch, for a few min, the experience was over. Maybe if I had a Surface Pro I would use touch more? Doubtful because it again comes to apps that have horrible touch UI. Also used at a tablet, the Surface Pro is bulky and just not as good as a iPad which is lighter, slimmer, has way more battery life and ALL of its apps are touch fantastic.

Different strokes. I use the touch all the time. Clicking programs on the task bar, closing windows, opening/closing Chrome windows, tapping buttons, etc. It's not perfect but it's great for quick stabs at the screen rather than clicking with the mouse.

Using it as a tablet is great as I can use FULL apps like Photoshop and Lightroom. I've got a pen as well and editing photos is awesome. Connect the keyboard and fold it like and A and it doubles as a Cintiq - draw right on the screen. Flip it back and use it in bed. No worrying about crappy mobile sites, a new app that has horrible syncing, etc. You use the same apps you already have.

I tried the iPad thing for a couple years and it was a horrible experience for me. Editing photos was horrible, the mobile vs desktop sites issue was horrible. It sure was portable though.

I'll probably never go back to a Mac laptop as touch/pen is one thing I don't think I can live without.

Also there are many things to NOT like about the Windows 10. DPI scaling is horrible compared to a Mac. Even some of the built in OS parts, like device manager, or Microsoft's own tools like AD users and groups are NOT DPI aware so they look like KRAP on a high dpi monitor that is not running at 100%. You can't control (completely) the update process. I have had my work laptop reboot on me at the wrong times because I had put off the reboot to many times. Then every time there is a big update (twice a year) all this KRAP ad software gets jammed into the start menu....lots of it. Ad's on the lock screen by default. Yes most, not all, can be turned off. I wont even get into the forced telemetry data at some level that can't be turned off.

Yes, I've got a 4k screen laptop and some of the apps have bad DPI scaling but that has gotten much better in the recent issues. And you can tweak the settings for each app as well. There is no excuse for MS's own apps not to have DPI scaling and even not to be all the new UI style.

I'm not sure where your updates issue comes from. I've not had any issues with that - I have updates set to start after 11pm and it reboots when it wants after that. I know that they have tweaked some of those settings in later builds. Perhaps it's your corporate GPO.

Same with ads and other stuff. Nothing like that here either. No ads on my lock screen either. Starting to wonder if it's your OS version or corporate build.

Win 10 has its plusses and minuses just like OSX. Both are good OS's (and I never thought I'd say that about a MS OS).

There is no way I would buy a Windows 10 computer on purpose.
I used to say that. Then I bought one in January and built one in Nov. Not sure what I'll do when my iMac dies.
 
Why even bother. Windows 10s and their store are a complete joke. Who uses Windows because they want to in 2017? PC gamers is about it.

Too everyone else it is a tool they are forced to use at work or a cheap home computer for the "computing" they don't do on a smartphone or tablet.
My understanding is something like 70% of Mac users for a start!
 
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