iTunes update out. version 7.4

[Fabio_gsilva]

I think you're right. Somebody has to pay for music/software/etc in order to aloud me get it for free over the Internet via torrent...

Keep respecting the law, christian boy. I can deal with the fact that I'm a naught boy!

But, believe me, I'm happy going hell for free!!!

Then I must be one of the 15.

Look - I know that this is not a popular opinion on forums like this, but the law is the law, whether I like it or not. Making a ring tone from a song without the artist/publisher permission is theft. Petty theft, but theft nonetheless.

I wouldn't steal a pack of gum from a store, so why should I steal the use of a song? I don't like that they make me pay for air at a gas station, but that doesn't give me the right to circumvent the machine and take the air for free.

The simple fact is the artists who wrote/performed the song and the companies that represent them own the rights to that song and can determine how you can use what is their property. They've decided playing the song on your iPod, your iPhone, your computer, and through any number of speaker/stereo systems is fair use that you already paid for. They've further decided that if you want to cut down their song and use a portion of it as a ring tone on your phone you have to pay extra for that. You can agree that's a fair deal and pay to use the song, or you can say it's a rip off and write your own music for a ring tone - but it IS illegal to use the song without their permission.

When you think about it, $2 for full use of a song in my iPod, iPhone, Computer, and as a ring tone is not a bad deal.

 

[skyking]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

OK....7.4 is downloaded, so where is the ringtone support? Not in the view column options

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

I think you're right. Somebody has to pay for music/software/etc in order to aloud me get it for free over the Internet via torrent...

Keep respecting the law, christian boy. I can deal with the fact that I'm a naught boy!

But, believe me, I'm happy going hell for free!!!

By the way, all the air for my tires is free here in Brazil...

 

[JPyre]

My self installed ringtones that are just full length songs are still there, as well as the royalty free ringtones that I had installed with installer.app.

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I think you're right. Somebody has to pay for music/software/etc in order to aloud me get it for free over the Internet via torrent...

Keep respecting the law, christian boy. I can deal with the fact that I'm a naught boy!

But, believe me, I'm happy going hell for free!!!

I would hope this has more to do with moral behavior than merely a religious mandate not to steal. But I appreciate your honesty. You are articulating the true position of every music pirate.

I hate the self-serving justifications many "flie-sharers" spew, and at least you aren't offering any. You know that what you are doing is wrong, and you just don't care. At least you aren't a hypocrite or self-deluded.

Hop you eventually have a change of heart.

 

[capvideo]

In fact, when you signed up for an iTunes Music Store account, you specifically agreed NOT to use any song downloaded from the iTMS as a ring tone. That's been in there for years, long before Apple was even thinking about phones -- further evidence that it's simply required by the music industry.

Huh? I actually pay attention to the terms of service, and I have a copy from May 13 of this year. I can't find any mention of ringers or ringtones in it. It's in the current copy, but it definitely hasn't been there for years, and it definitely was added not only after Apple began thinking about phones but after Apple announced a phone and had begun thinking about selling ringtones.

Internet Archive of iTunes Music Store terms of service

Jerry

 

[sanford]

One, let me make it absolutely clear that I think buying songs from the iTunes Store and paying a small fee to make them into ringtones, and that being the only way to customize iPhone ringtones, is perfectly fine. No problem with it at all. Will gladly pay.

But, two, you about theft and violation of copyright law you are so far wrong I have no idea where to being. It's fair use. If someone owns a song and wants to make a ringtone out of it and use it only on their personal phone and not distribute it in any manner either for a fee or for free, that is in no way a violation of copyright law. You're phone ringing does not constitute "public performance" any more than playing a CD on your portable boom-box at the beach does. So forget it; it's not copyright violation; when you sell your music the law *does not* give you total and complete control of how it is used. (Breaking Apple's DRM to get at an iTunes Store song to make your own ringtone outside the iTunes system might run afoul of DMCA, but that's another story.)

Very simple analogy. You buy a first edition of a new novel. You make a photocopy of the whole thing and sell it or give it away to someone. Copyright violation. You make a photocopy of the whole thing for you to personally read in the bath so you won't ruin your first edition. Fair use. Not illegal, no violation. Perfectly okay, no victims, have at it.

Assuming you're a better musician than copyright lawyer, I'll check out your music on iTunes.

This is the most insightful and accurate post thus far, IMHO.

Obviously, we are all a little torked by having to essentially repurchase something we already have. But as far as the rights of the artist/copyright holder go, they license their intellectual property under very specific terms and conditions. If they say, "we give you permission to listen to our intellectual property for your private enjoyment, but you'll have to pay extra for ringtones, which are essentially public performances of our work", then you have a choice--agree to the artist/copyright holder's terms, or don't buy their music. Write your own.

Or, if you are unethical, just find a 3rd party ringtone ripper, violate the terms of use as established by the artist, and screw him/her/them out of their absolutely legal and just compensation.

Apple is not the money-grubbing arm-twister here. To have the works of all of the major-label artists in their sizable catalog, they are absolutely compelled to do something like this. Appple is constantly having to strike a balance between end user use rights and artist/copyright holder rights. The 10-burns-only of a single unaltered playlist is an example of these sorts of compromises. So is a ringtone fee, unfortunately.

Of course, this goes back to the fundamental issue: the completely immature, selfish attitude of "it is my God-given right that anything my ears can hear should be in my iTunes Library."

You ringtone pirates all must have a great deal of contempt for the musicians you listen to and routinely steal from. It is NOT a victimless crime. And it IS a crime.

And no, I don't work for the RIAA. I am a recording artist on iTunes. I get $.59 for every download. I am the face of this "victimless" crime you evidently have no proplem perpetrating.

 

[3282872]

I've been asking that question since yesterday and have yet to hear a single answer.

Hmmm, well, I can go to my local CD store, but an album from any where between $9.99 and $18.00. Depending on the number of tracks on that album, the price may range from $.80 a track or $1.50 a track. Since I bought the CD, I can do what ever I want with those tracks. Rip them to my hard drive, play them in my car, iPod, iTunes, make a track into a ring tone and down load it with iFuntastic to my iPhone. All legal. No extra "hidden" charges or being told what to do with the music.

I stopped buying iTunes tracks a few weeks ago because:

A) They are NOT CD quality, even iTunes Plus is only 256 bitrate, NOT Apple Lossless and NOT CD quality

B) Regular iTunes tracks are only 128 bitrate, not as good as CD or even Vinyl (yes, Vinyl quality still outshines CD quality), and I'm told how I can use the song I PURCHASED

So from now on, I would rather buy a CD, rip it using Apple Lossless and enjoy full rights than having a company tell me what I can do with that song.

As an 80's child, I remember when it was legal to make tapes from CD's for friends. I used to make mixed tapes all the time from my CD's. Now look how the music industry is whining and moaning, and mostly it is from the music exec's who have to take a pay cut from their bloated salary's.

Yes, I do believe the artist AND the customers lose out, but it has to even out, it HAS to become FAIR at some point.

 

[bdj21ya]

I synced mine and my ringtones added with iFuntastic 2.5 (which still works with 1.02 firmware) remained available.

 

[mambodancer]

This is the most insightful and accurate post thus far, IMHO.

Obviously, we are all a little torked by having to essentially repurchase something we already have. But as far as the rights of the artist/copyright holder go, they license their intellectual property under very specific terms and conditions. If they say, "we give you permission to listen to our intellectual property for your private enjoyment, but you'll have to pay extra for ringtones, which are essentially public performances of our work", then you have a choice--agree to the artist/copyright holder's terms, or don't buy their music. Write your own.

Or, if you are unethical, just find a 3rd party ringtone ripper, violate the terms of use as established by the artist, and screw him/her/them out of their absolutely legal and just compensation.

Apple is not the money-grubbing arm-twister here. To have the works of all of the major-label artists in their sizable catalog, they are absolutely compelled to do something like this. Appple is constantly having to strike a balance between end user use rights and artist/copyright holder rights. The 10-burns-only of a single unaltered playlist is an example of these sorts of compromises. So is a ringtone fee, unfortunately.

Of course, this goes back to the fundamental issue: the completely immature, selfish attitude of "it is my God-given right that anything my ears can hear should be in my iTunes Library."

You ringtone pirates all must have a great deal of contempt for the musicians you listen to and routinely steal from. It is NOT a victimless crime. And it IS a crime.

And no, I don't work for the RIAA. I am a recording artist on iTunes. I get $.59 for every download. I am the face of this "victimless" crime you evidently have no proplem perpetrating.

That stems from the "in whole or in part" of the law.

I'm an artist and I sell my original paintings and prints. Just because you buy either does not give you the right to copy any portion of my art for any reason without my express permission or I will sue your a$$ for stealing from me. If you want to use my art in your website, there is a good chance I might let you do this. If you want to copy my art and put it on a t-shirt, hmmm, maybe not. If you want to copy the original art you bought, put the image on a T-Shirt and sell it, then be prepared for a law suit because you are stealing from me. Just because you bought the art (or print) no other rights are confered to you. All rights to the image belong to me unless, you and I enter into a contract and you pay me for those rights.

These rights also apply to me for work I'm contracted to do as a freelancer for, say Wizards of the Coast. WoTC grants me 2nd and 3rd rights to the art, I can make prints (where it doesn't conflict with existing product and copyrights) and sell the original. I cannot resell the art to another game company for inclusion in another product.

I could digitize my art and sell it as computer or cellphone wallpapers. In which case, if you scan my art and use it for the same purpose, you would be stealing from me. I work very, very hard to create original pieces of art and hope people enjoy it and will pay me for it. I have studied very hard to get where I'm at and continue to do so (any artist does the same). Hopefully, I will continue to produce art, and get paid for it so I can continue to produce art, until the day I die.

When I talk to would be struggling artists, I tell them that they need to be very careful about maintaining possession of all rights to their work and they need to maximize their income potential from each piece they produce if they want to even hope to make a bare living persuing this creative endeavor that we all love. That means they need to think about sellling prints, greeting cards, wallpapers, calendars, etc (where appropriate) to maximize that income potential.

And lastly I warn them that if they give away their art for nothing, then that's exactly what the precieved value of their art will be---nothing!

 

[bdj21ya]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

OK....7.4 is downloaded, so where is the ringtone support? Not in the view column options

As mentioned in the keynote and numerous articles, this feature won't magically appear until next week.

 

[toshiba1]

Ambrosia software is looking into the deleted ringtone issue....

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114982

 

[other]

Download WinSCP (I'm sure there is an OSX app that does the same thing but I don't know what it is)

Fugu.

 

[motulist]

As an 80's child, I remember when it was legal to make tapes from CD's for friends. I used to make mixed tapes all the time from my CD's

I have bad news for you. Every one of those mix tapes you made gave money directly to the big music companies in order for you to be allowed to make that mix tape. Every blank cassette tape you bought had a cut of the retail price ALREADY paid out to the music companies. (iirc)

I'm not saying any of this is right, I'm just saying if you were under the impression that mix tapes side stepped paying money to the big music labels, then you were mistaken.

EDIT: wiki doesn't seem to have any info on this, so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. (it was a long time ago!)

 

[Thataboy]

One, let me make it absolutely clear that I think buying songs from the iTunes Store and paying a small fee to make them into ringtones, and that being the only way to customize iPhone ringtones, is perfectly fine. No problem with it at all. Will gladly pay.

But, two, you about theft and violation of copyright law you are so far wrong I have no idea where to being. It's fair use. If someone owns a song and wants to make a ringtone out of it and use it only on their personal phone and not distribute it in any manner either for a fee or for free, that is in no way a violation of copyright law. You're phone ringing does not constitute "public performance" any more than playing a CD on your portable boom-box at the beach does. So forget it; it's not copyright violation; when you sell your music the law *does not* give you total and complete control of how it is used. (Breaking Apple's DRM to get at an iTunes Store song to make your own ringtone outside the iTunes system might run afoul of DMCA, but that's another story.)

Very simple analogy. You buy a first edition of a new novel. You make a photocopy of the whole thing and sell it or give it away to someone. Copyright violation. You make a photocopy of the whole thing for you to personally read in the bath so you won't ruin your first edition. Fair use. Not illegal, no violation. Perfectly okay, no victims, have at it.

Assuming you're a better musician than copyright lawyer, I'll check out your music on iTunes.

This is the most insightful and accurate post thus far, IMHO.

 

[Project]

Album ratings ftw

 

[bdj21ya]

That stems from the "in whole or in part" of the law.

I'm an artist and I sell my original paintings and prints. Just because you buy either does not give you the right to copy any portion of my art for any reason without my express permission or I will sue your a$$ for stealing from me. If you want to use my art in your website, there is a good chance I might let you do this. If you want to copy my art and put it on a t-shirt, hmmm, maybe not. If you want to copy the original art you bought, put the image on a T-Shirt and sell it, then be prepared for a law suit because you are stealing from me. Just because you bought the art (or print) no other rights are confered to you. All rights to the image belong to me unless, you and I enter into a contract and you pay me for those rights.

These rights also apply to me for work I'm contracted to do as a freelancer for, say Wizards of the Coast. WoTC grants me 2nd and 3rd rights to the art, I can make prints (where it doesn't conflict with existing product and copyrights) and sell the original. I cannot resell the art to another game company for inclusion in another product.

I could digitize my art and sell it as computer or cellphone wallpapers. In which case, if you scan my art and use it for the same purpose, you would be stealing from me. I work very, very hard to create original pieces of art and hope people enjoy it and will pay me for it. I have studied very hard to get where I'm at and continue to do so (any artist does the same). Hopefully, I will continue to produce art, and get paid for it so I can continue to produce art, until the day I die.

When I talk to would be struggling artists, I tell them that they need to be very careful about maintaining possession of all rights to their work and they need to maximize their income potential from each piece they produce if they want to even hope to make a bare living persuing this creative endeavor that we all love. That means they need to think about sellling prints, greeting cards, wallpapers, calendars, etc (where appropriate) to maximize that income potential.

And lastly I warn them that if they give away their art for nothing, then that's exactly what the precieved value of their art will be---nothing!

I know you weren't trying to make an analogy, but I just wanted to repeat that buying music (let's say on CD where you make no agreement not to copy it for personal use, or not to use it as a ringtone) and then using it as a ringtone is nothing like putting a piece of art on a web page or t-shirt for commercial sale.

Both those last two are distribution. If I were to take a picture of part of your artwork, or even make a perfect digital copy, then carry it around in my wallet so I could appreciate it more often, THAT would be like making a ringtone. Sometimes other people might see me pull my copy of your work out of my wallet while I'm appreciating it, I might even show it to co-workers, but I'm not distributing, so really it would only increase the value of your work, and the likelihood that others would seek to buy copies of your art.

Distributing others' music without permission is stealing, taking and using that music is stealing, AND trying to get people to pay for music twice is armed robbery. However, in this case, I consider it as Apple asking you to pay for the convenience of the ringtone maker. Also, you're reallying not paying $2 for a ringtone, you're also getting a full song--you're really only paying 99 cents for the ringtone. This is a much better deal than cell users have been getting for some time, so I'd like to thank Apple for finally putting some competition into this market, and hopefully forcing things to a more reasonable price.

I for one will continue to add my ringtones the inconvenient way, I enjoy the extra work.

 

[Thataboy]

I just want to repeat the call for lower-priced, non-song, "normal" ringtones. Create a section of iTMS for it, make sure there is no RIAA material in there, and sell ringtones for a small fee... like $0.29 or $0.49.

Anyone over the age of 13 who uses songs as ringtones should be shot.

 

[mrwilly123]

Surprised that no one has mentioned that the SendSong method of making ringtones still works because it puts the ringtones in var/root/Library/Ringtones.

 

[Cameront9]

I couldn't care less about the ringtones, but as a Hearing-impaired Apple user I am bouncing off the walls at the news that Closed-Captioning is now supported. Can anyone confirm? Is CC in videos already purchased? is there an indicator in the store as to what is closed captioned and what isn't? I might be spending more money on the iTunes Video store if I can buy closed captioned TV shows...


(I'm sure this post will get lost among the ringtone ranters.... )

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

I would hope this has more to do with moral behavior than merely a religious mandate not to steal. But I appreciate your honesty. You are articulating the true position of every music pirate.

I hate the self-serving justifications many "flie-sharers" spew, and at least you aren't offering any. You know that what you are doing is wrong, and you just don't care. At least you aren't a hypocrite or self-deluded.

Hop you eventually have a change of heart.

Thanks.

In fact, I'm heading to a better posture.

I bought a legal imported Xbox 360, with all due tax - 1500 dollars (black market 800 dollars) and I did not unlocked it, so I keep paying 60 dollars for any used game I bought (new games are about 100 - 150 dollars).

But, when you I say to my friends that I buy only original games, they look at me like they're looking at an E.T.

It's so deeply glued in our roots to take advantage of somebody or something that when you do what the law order you are misunderstood for everybody.

 

[sanford]

You *remember* when it was legal to make mix tapes? You remember from like, when, this morning? It's still legal, brother. Not just tapes, but mix CDs. It's never been legal to duplicate *the whole album* track for track and give it away. But mix compilations are still considered fair use if you don't sell them. The thing you can't do under DMCA is break DRM. Breaking DRM is a sticky issue, though. Is writing a piece of software that strips the DRM out of an iTunes Store track in violation of DMCA? You bet. Is using a program that records any audio, including DRM music, playing on your computer in violation of DMCA? That's subject to interpretation. And of course some of this is a fair use issue. Ripping CDs to iTunes for personal use is fine. Ripping them and uploading them to the Internet is not. Breaking DRM to rip a DVD *you bought and still own and have not resold* for personal use on an Apple TV or iPod or computer is generally overlooked because you bought the DVD in the first place, you just want to play it on something different. Ripping your entire 200 DVD collection and uploading it for people to download, this they frown upon.

I should note that I have a vested interest in this issue, too. I'm a writer -- not so as you could tell today as I'm on some kind of typo binge. If someone buys and scans or types into a computer one of my books and uploads it to the Internet for people to download for free, I'm very, very angry. Someone scans a page of one of my books containing a passage he finds particularly poignant, he has this scanned page enlarged, frames it and hangs it on his office wall, well I'm flattered. Even though he copied my work and put it on somewhat public display. It's still fair use.

As for CDs, I still prefer CDs myself. But because I live in fly-over country and all the record stores in a twenty-five mile radius, save one, are garbage, I will buy from iTunes sometimes rather than wait to have a CD shipped. Or, for example, my two young sons really love Hindi pop and I can quickly find lots of it on iTunes and get immediately, whereas even at most online CD retailers I'd have a time finding such a wide selection in one place, and then there's the wait and expense to get the CDs in the mail.

Hmmm, well, I can go to my local CD store, but an album from any where between $9.99 and $18.00. Depending on the number of tracks on that album, the price may range from $.80 a track or $1.50 a track. Since I bought the CD, I can do what ever I want with those tracks. Rip them to my hard drive, play them in my car, iPod, iTunes, make a track into a ring tone and down load it with iFuntastic to my iPhone. All legal. No extra "hidden" charges or being told what to do with the music.

I stopped buying iTunes tracks a few weeks ago because:

A) They are NOT CD quality, even iTunes Plus is only 256 bitrate, NOT Apple Lossless and NOT CD quality

B) Regular iTunes tracks are only 128 bitrate, not as good as CD or even Vinyl (yes, Vinyl quality still outshines CD quality), and I'm told how I can use the song I PURCHASED

So from now on, I would rather buy a CD, rip it using Apple Lossless and enjoy full rights than having a company tell me what I can do with that song.

As an 80's child, I remember when it was legal to make tapes from CD's for friends. I used to make mixed tapes all the time from my CD's. Now look how the music industry is whining and moaning, and mostly it is from the music exec's who have to take a pay cut from their bloated salary's.

Yes, I do believe the artist AND the customers lose out, but it has to even out, it HAS to become FAIR at some point.

 

[s10]

music ringtones should cost MORE money, actually people should get FINED for using musical ringtones because they are so ANNOYING!

 

[FJ218700]

music ringtones should cost MORE money, actually people should get FINED for using musical ringtones because they are so ANNOYING!

agreed

thank you !

 

[macleod199]

But, two, you about theft and violation of copyright law you are so far wrong I have no idea where to being. It's fair use. If someone owns a song and wants to make a ringtone out of it and use it only on their personal phone and not distribute it in any manner either for a fee or for free, that is in no way a violation of copyright law. You're phone ringing does not constitute "public performance" any more than playing a CD on your portable boom-box at the beach does. So forget it; it's not copyright violation; when you sell your music the law *does not* give you total and complete control of how it is used. (Breaking Apple's DRM to get at an iTunes Store song to make your own ringtone outside the iTunes system might run afoul of DMCA, but that's another story.)

Honestly, I think you're the one who's wrong here, as depressing as it is. You can now be sued for singing Happy Birthday in public without paying a fee (this has actually happened), and I imagine you can for playing a CD in public like you describe as well, if they cared too. See, e.g.:

http://bitsandpieces1.blogspot.com/2006/09/is-singing-happy-birthday-in-public.html
http://www.iia.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=517&Itemid=32

Just because something is ridiculous, almost never enforced, and almost impossible to enforce, doesn't mean it isn't a violation of civil law.