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I think OP's point is that a base 15" Haswell rMBP is $1999 while a base Ivy Bridge rMBP can be had for $1599. That's a 25% price increase for an actual regression in GPU performance. If GPU is important to you it absolutely makes no sense to pay a 25% price premium for worse performance.

The flippant, sarcastic comments about "Core 2 Duo is cheaper" or "Sandy Bridge is cheaper" aren't taking into account that the successors to Core 2 Duo and Sandy Bridge were still an improvement in every possible spec over their predecessors.

This is one of the rare situations where a current-generation was actually worse in some ways than the model it replaced.


Where do you see it for $1599?
 
THere you go then :)

I must say that over the current rMBP offerings that refurb is an absolute bargain.
 
Apple fans have a notorious tasteless and awful habit of derailing serious discussion with joking comments and sarcasm in an attempt to discredit and straw man any legit, valid criticism of Apple's products.

The reality of the 15" Iris Pro MacBook Pro is that it's not as good as the previous base for graphics. And it's QUITE a decline in performance. Like 100% bad. And people would be led to believe that a 2013 would be the right way to go for price/performance.

The late 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro is the value to be had and if anyone's in the market for a machine under $2000, they should absolutely consider those models. In fact I might sell my 13" Classic and pay the extra to get the 15" Retina.
I'd say fan boys not fans. But yes It was either this thread or another that I think beat the record for most straw man arguements to piss me off in less than 3 minutes. If I had to buy a new rMBP for $2K give or take $200-300 I would still choose Ivy Bridge...the top 2.6GHz model may be king in its class but the late 2.7GHz model is still an absolute beast.
 
Nope. Depending on what you are looking for in a laptop, the OP is 100% correct.

Yeah and in the case that what someone is looking for in a computer doesn't match up, the OP is 100% incorrect.

I fail to see your point except to use "100%" to make you sound right.

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Actually, having a hard time taking you seriously. Apologist much?

If you look at the posts in this thread you'll realize that no one took the thread seriously until someone came in and decided to flesh out the OPs argument for him.
You might as well post a thread saying "the rMBP sucks" and then wait for someone to echo your opinion by providing evidence to support your claim, then flame anyone to realize how absurd the thread was to begin with.
 
I think OP's point is that a base 15" Haswell rMBP is $1999 while a base Ivy Bridge rMBP can be had for $1599. That's a 25% price increase for an actual regression in GPU performance. If GPU is important to you it absolutely makes no sense to pay a 25% price premium for worse performance.

The flippant, sarcastic comments about "Core 2 Duo is cheaper" or "Sandy Bridge is cheaper" aren't taking into account that the successors to Core 2 Duo and Sandy Bridge were still an improvement in every possible spec over their predecessors.

This is one of the rare situations where a current-generation was actually worse in some ways than the model it replaced.

$1599 is the refurbished 2.3GHz Ivy Bridge model, which is not as fast as the 2.0GHz Haswell base model. The $1699 2.4GHz model is on par. Haswell with Iris Pro does run much cooler, has longer battery life, and better OpenCL performance

There are 802.11ac, Thunderbolt 2, PCI-E SSD, if you care about these things
 
Nope. Just stating that the OP is absolutely correct depending upon one's needs, but some can't handle that statement for some reason.

But the fact is the OP didn't include a "depending upon one's needs."

He simply says, "Buy the Ivy Bridge over the Haswell because the Ivy Bridge is 'complete' and the Haswell base is not."

You're just interpreting OP's statements in any way you please.
 
Anyone else finding it hard to take OP seriously?
Anyone else find your post annoying and hard to take it seriously?

Yes, yes they do. Including myself.

Funny, considering this guy is the first one to post such a straw man, cynical posts.

You may think of me as a troll, but I think of you as apple apologist troll, which is like a step below troll level.

;)

Apple fans have a notorious tasteless and awful habit of derailing serious discussion with joking comments and sarcasm in an attempt to discredit and straw man any legit, valid criticism of Apple's products.

The reality of the 15" Iris Pro MacBook Pro is that it's not as good as the previous base for graphics. And it's QUITE a decline in performance. Like 100% bad. And people would be led to believe that a 2013 would be the right way to go for price/performance.

The late 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro is the value to be had and if anyone's in the market for a machine under $2000, they should absolutely consider those models. In fact I might sell my 13" Classic and pay the extra to get the 15" Retina.
My friend, I think you just scared away whole flock of nonsense apple apologists with that post. Thumbs up.
 
Anyone else find your post annoying and hard to take it seriously?

Yes, yes they do. Including myself.

Funny, considering this guy is the first one to post such a straw man, cynical posts.

You may think of me as a troll, but I think of you as apple apologist troll, which is like a step below troll level.

;)

I'm sorry. You win. I can't continue reading your unintelligible statements.

/seppuku
 
If you look at the posts in this thread you'll realize that no one took the thread seriously until someone came in and decided to flesh out the OPs argument for him.

You're welcome. :)

But seriously, this is a conversation that merits more air time than it's getting. Certainly more air time than the useless anecdotal posts of "how yellow is my screen?"

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If I had to buy a new rMBP for $2K give or take $200-300 I would still choose Ivy Bridge...

I'm still waiting to see how random read-write benchmarks do.
 
You're welcome. :)

But seriously, this is a conversation that merits more air time than it's getting. Certainly more air time than the useless anecdotal posts of "how yellow is my screen?"

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I'm still waiting to see how random read-write benchmarks do.

Was waiting for you to respond ;)

Everything I say directed at OP goes straight over his head. It's like playing catch with a blind person. *whoosh*

I do agree that the issue could use more coverage; enough so that it deserves it's own thread.

Seriously though, no one is going to wade through 20 posts about old computers and "completeness" of the Ivy Bridge to get to any of the substantive material that has been sporadically posted here.

You should start a thread with a more specific title and a more comprehensible post. I'm sure the conversations in that thread would be 100 times more productive and civil. :cool:
 
In my opinion, the refresh this time around was largely for those of us who weren't already on a rMBP. I don't think it was intended/targeted at folks who were first generation adopters (as the improvements were nothing close to game-changing). And I agree with many on here who feel that a refurbished 15" Ivy Bridge currently offers significantly better value than the new base Iris Pro 15.
 
In my opinion, the refresh this time around was largely for those of us who weren't already on a rMBP. I don't think it was intended/targeted at folks who were first generation adopters (as the improvements were nothing close to game-changing). And I agree with many on here who feel that a refurbished 15" Ivy Bridge currently offers significantly better value than the new base Iris Pro 15.
Apparently, it's a bitter pill to swallow for some of apple fanboys.
 
The old Commodore 64 with the cassette drive ruled. Used to play Jumpman on that until 3:00am with a Big Gulp of Mountain Dew and an order of cheese bread from Pizza Hut. God, those were the days....
 
The old Commodore 64 with the cassette drive ruled. Used to play Jumpman on that until 3:00am with a Big Gulp of Mountain Dew and an order of cheese bread from Pizza Hut. God, those were the days....
Better than haswell?
 
LOL

Sorry if you took offense to this, but I think you are assuming too much about our "flippant and sarcastic comments".

They were made in jest.

We're not ignorant of the marginal differences between the Ivy Bridge and Haswell models.

We just don't see the point in OP posting something as obvious and unproductive as this in the first place.

Also, the fact that you have to infer the OP's post kind of makes you wonder how useful the thread was to begin with, does it not? :p:p

wasn't obvious to me so i appreciate this.
 
Was waiting for you to respond ;)

Everything I say directed at OP goes straight over his head. It's like playing catch with a blind person. *whoosh*

I do agree that the issue could use more coverage; enough so that it deserves it's own thread.

Seriously though, no one is going to wade through 20 posts about old computers and "completeness" of the Ivy Bridge to get to any of the substantive material that has been sporadically posted here.

You should start a thread with a more specific title and a more comprehensible post. I'm sure the conversations in that thread would be 100 times more productive and civil. :cool:
*Guy posts nonsense stuffs and calls me out in multiple posts

*Tells I'm the one who needs to start posting more comprehensible posts


Trolls gonna troll.
 
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I think OP's point is that a base 15" Haswell rMBP is $1999 while a base Ivy Bridge rMBP can be had for $1599. That's a 25% price increase for an actual regression in GPU performance. This is one of the rare situations where a current-generation was actually worse in some ways than the model it replaced.

Agreed. I just recently paid $1587 for the 2012 15" rMBP over the 2013 model.

The price vs features ratio is simply way to good to pass up on.
 
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