iWork '05 Productivity Suite?

[shiny]

This is what Microsoft could do.

Pull out of OSX completely. Drop support for VPC, MSN Messenger, Office etc on Mac. Stock price plummets (investors know that Microsoft is big and when big goes away from small, it's not good). Apple's stock is overvalued anyway, and it will fall back to the $50 mark regardless.

Microsoft starts to buy shares out after a week or two, via proxy companies. Soon has 30% ownership after a few months.

Microsoft has a market capitilzation of $300billion. Apple has less than 10% of that. Microsoft's profits for a year are worth more than Apple entirely.

You do realize that Microsoft could not use proxy companies to buy the shares of Apple without violating SEC and probably anti-trust rules in that MS would have an effective monopoly over all of the personal computer market and not just the x86 personal computer market. Again, you sound like a kid who does not realize how the real world works. There are laws that must be followed.

Also, you are making a huge assumption that the stock price of Apple would plumment. You don't seem to realize that one of the reasons that Apple is producing all of this software is to protect the company from third party decisions to discontinue software. If they have their own wordprocessing, presentation, database, IM, web browsing, spreadsheet, etc. software, they are more able to survive if a company like MS decides to discontinue development.

 

[Bear]

when i say pirate i mean my dad will buy it and i'll install it on like 5 macs.

2x cubes
2x ibook's
1x friends g3

Maybe we'll be lucky an their will be a family license so if your dad bought that, 4 of the machines would be legal.

And I do encourage people with multiple machines at home to buy the family licenses where appropriate. If enough family licenses sell, Apple will probably license more software that way.

 

[shiny]

Microsoft effectively did own Apple in the dark, dark days of the mid 90s. If they pulled out their 'investments', they would of gone bankrupt.

BTW: If you categorise your friends on what computer they use, you need serious help.

Again, you are posting comments that simply are not true. Even at the darkest days of Apple, they had over one billion dollars in the bank. MS invested 150 million dollars in Apple in nonvoting stock purchase. If you have a link to some other investment, please post it. If not, please stop posting your fantasies and trying to pass them off as fact.

 

[aldo]

now you are talking corporate takeover not one person buying into a company. If you think there were antitrust lawsuits before wait till they try this

When I said 'gates', I meant Microsoft. But Gates has a fortune of around twice Apple's current market capitalization, so he could probably do it himself if he really felt like it.

There is not going to be any more anti-trust lawsuits in the USA while Bush is in office, or one of his successors.

 

[animefan_1]

like konfabulator? or how bout dragthing? what about logic? no microsoft?http://www.proteron.com/liteswitchx/. http://www.moodlogic.com/ and then when someone like realnetworks makes somethingCOMPATABLE with an apple product they get angry. 5 years ago we would have been begging for that. I'm not saying dont put out software. but theres something not right.

Apple didn't get upset with Real because their software was iPod compatible, but rather the fact that Real created a work-around for Apple's Fairplay DRM.

There are several pieces of software that have iPod compatibility.
Audion (no longer being updated) http://www.panic.com/audion/
Winamp http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=138888
Even your moodlogic

There are also others that I can't recall the name of.

None of these companies were sued by Apple for their iPod compatibility, but if they tried to pull a stunt like Real Networks had, they would be in the same boat.

 

[mattmack]

This is what Microsoft could do.

Pull out of OSX completely. Drop support for VPC, MSN Messenger, Office etc on Mac. Stock price plummets (investors know that Microsoft is big and when big goes away from small, it's not good). Apple's stock is overvalued anyway, and it will fall back to the $50 mark regardless.

Microsoft starts to buy shares out after a week or two, via proxy companies. Soon has 30% ownership after a few months.

Microsoft has a market capitilzation of $300billion. Apple has less than 10% of that. Microsoft's profits for a year are worth more than Apple entirely.

Also they do make money on those products so they would take a hit to profit buy dropping all of those products for macplus layoff all the development teams for those products making there stock drop delaying the takeover bid indefinetley.

I am not serious but just saying that market and business are so volitile you can't predict how any certain event will or will not effect any other company let alone when the governmenbt steps in

 

[puuukeey]

I'd assume they knew that if they hung back and blew their load at the right time they'de get where they are now

 

[aldo]

Again, you are posting comments that simply are not true. Even at the darkest days of Apple, they had over one billion dollars in the bank. MS invested 150 million dollars in Apple in nonvoting stock purchase. If you have a link to some other investment, please post it. If not, please stop posting your fantasies and trying to pass them off as fact.

Without that $150mil they would be bankrupt. They had all the $1bin tied up in various debts, agreements and lawsuits. I already posted a link to the 7% they owned, which I assume is the $150mil you are talking about.

As for my 'fantasies', I don't want to see Apple go. I'm just saying that when Apple was in dire state, Microsoft was the only one which pulled them out of their problems.

 

[aldo]

Also they do make money on those products so they would take a hit to profit buy dropping all of those products for macplus layoff all the development teams for those products making there stock drop delaying the takeover bid indefinetley.

I am not serious but just saying that market and business are so volitile you can't predict how any certain event will or will not effect any other company let alone when the governmenbt steps in

LOL, sorry, less than 5% of Microsoft's profits come from the Mac Business Unit.

I couldn't understand the other part. Are you trying to say that they wouldn't be able to commence a takeover with a tiny % of their staff being reassigned?

 

[shiny]

When I said 'gates', I meant Microsoft. But Gates has a fortune of around twice Apple's current market capitalization, so he could probably do it himself if he really felt like it.

There is not going to be any more anti-trust lawsuits in the USA while Bush is in office, or one of his successors.

You do realize that most of Gates fortune is wrapped up in MS stock don't you? If he were to sell enough shares to try and buy Apple, it would flood the market with MS shares and thereby lower the value of the stock. His fortune would be reduced by the act of selling the stock.

Also, if Gates is making a move to buy a large share of Apple, the price of Apple's stock would rise and make it too expensive for Gates and probably the corporation of MS to purchase Apple.

You really should think these things through before posting your fantasies.

 

[shiny]

Without that $150mil they would be bankrupt. They had all the $1bin tied up in various debts, agreements and lawsuits. I already posted a link to the 7% they owned, which I assume is the $150mil you are talking about.

As for my 'fantasies', I don't want to see Apple go. I'm just saying that when Apple was in dire state, Microsoft was the only one which pulled them out of their problems.

No, Apple had about one billion dollars in the bank. I am going to post a link to an official Apple press release. Notice that the press release has information from March 1997. It was in 1997, that MS paid the 150 million. In 1997, Apple had approximately 1.2 billion dollars in cash and cash equivalents. Not debts, agreements and lawsuits. Cash and cash equivalents. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. Do some research before posting.

http://www.apple.com/ca/press/1998/04/Q2Earnings.html

 

[aldo]

You do realize that most of Gates fortune is wrapped up in MS stock don't you? If he were to sell enough shares to try and buy Apple, it would flood the market with MS shares and thereby lower the value of the stock. His fortune would be reduced by the act of selling the stock.

Also, if Gates is making a move to buy a large share of Apple, the price of Apple's stock would rise and make it too expensive for Gates and probably the corporation of MS to purchase Apple.

You really should think these things through before posting your fantasies.

Oh god.

Gates could sell the stock off slowly, in say, $3bil chunks. After a year or so he'd have a good $30bil out and little impact on the share price.

As for your plain stupid comment on the other part, I'll explain it slowly for you.

1) Microsoft drops Apple's share price to half what it is now by pulling out from the platform. Apple is now worth around $15bil.
2) Microsoft buys 30% of the company, in 10% chunks. Price goes up about 10-25% time each time they do this, ending up costing them no more than $30bil.

Are you honestly trying to tell me a $300bil company couldn't buy out a $15-25bil one?

 

[AMPrkm]

The Truth!

OK, what is the truth in this MicroSoft owns most of apple thing? I would really like to know, so I can stick it to my PC friends if they bring it up again. I am sick of the "So what, Microsoft owns half of Apple anyway" comments.

The truth is that Microsoft doesn't own a single share of Apple. Zilch. I've owned Apple stock for over a decade, and I am completely certain that Microsoft has never had a significant stake in Apple.

This urban legend stems from the 1997 agreement between Apple and Microsoft that included Apple bundling IE with Mac OS 8, Microsoft pledging to continue Office for Mac, and Microsoft making a $150 investment in Apple in the form of *restricted* stock. It's properly called an investment but not part-ownership because this restricted stock was non-voting. In other words, Microsoft was never able to influence the Board of Directors or any other aspect of Apple.

In any case, $150 million was a token amount even in Apple's darkest days, and Microsoft sold off their investment a few years ago.

I hope that clears things up once and for all!

 

[shiny]

LOL, sorry, less than 5% of Microsoft's profits come from the Mac Business Unit.

I couldn't understand the other part. Are you trying to say that they wouldn't be able to commence a takeover with a tiny % of their staff being reassigned?

You do realize that they would have to answer to shareholders about why they are giving up 5% of their profits don't you. Corporate officers have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value. How would cutting Mac development maximize shareholder value?

Also, if Apple got more than ten percent of the market, it would represent a major market for MS to sell software to. So, your assumption that the profit percentage would stay at 5% is also flawed. So, conceivably, MS could be giving away 10-15% of their profits in your scenario.

Again, please think before you post.

 

[Wuddel]

Well. I hope they do not piss of MS to much. The moment MS drops the support of the OSX-version of Office, I am a Windows-User again.

It would be much wiser to market the new cheap Mac with a discount on MS Office.

 

[aldo]

No, Apple had about one billion dollars in the bank. I am going to post a link to an official Apple press release. Notice that the press release has information from March 1997. It was in 1997, that MS paid the 150 million. In 1997, Apple had approximately 1.2 billion dollars in cash and cash equivalents. Not debts, agreements and lawsuits. Cash and cash equivalents. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. Do some research before posting.

http://www.apple.com/ca/press/1998/04/Q2Earnings.html

Their share price was taking a beating and the only thing that turned it round was Microsoft's investment:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=my

Also, they made a loss before this: http://web.archive.org/web/19981202...leases/1997/q2/970115.pr.rel.q197earning.html

 

[shiny]

Oh god.

Gates could sell the stock off slowly, in say, $3bil chunks. After a year or so he'd have a good $30bil out and little impact on the share price.

As for your plain stupid comment on the other part, I'll explain it slowly for you.

1) Microsoft drops Apple's share price to half what it is now by pulling out from the platform. Apple is now worth around $15bil.
2) Microsoft buys 30% of the company, in 10% chunks. Price goes up about 10-25% time each time they do this, ending up costing them no more than $30bil.

Are you honestly trying to tell me a $300bil company couldn't buy out a $15-25bil one?

You simply don't understand how coporate purchases work in the real world.

You are assuming that MS pulling support from Apple would result in a drop in value of one half. That is a huge assumption, backed up by nothing.

How long would MS take to buy the 10% chunks? You do realize that if they were to buy a ten percent chunk at one time, the price of the stock would increase significantly. In addition, because of SEC reporting requirements, everyone would know MS was buying the stock, they could not keep it silent.

Finally, you have not made a good business argument for why MS would want to do any of this. MS makes software. It does not matter which platform as long as they can make money. Why would the corporate officers of MS spend a ton of money to buy Apple when they could simply sell to Apple customers without wasting corporate assets.

Stop thinking of corporations as kids who would want to exact revenge on the other kid.

 

[aldo]

You do realize that they would have to answer to shareholders about why they are giving up 5% of their profits don't you. Corporate officers have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value. How would cutting Mac development maximize shareholder value?

Also, if Apple got more than ten percent of the market, it would represent a major market for MS to sell software to. So, your assumption that the profit percentage would stay at 5% is also flawed. So, conceivably, MS could be giving away 10-15% of their profits in your scenario.

Again, please think before you post.

They could easily explain away the pullout from Mac software development - something like 'we can't compete against Apple without investing too much in development' or similar.

 

[shiny]

Their share price was taking a beating and the only thing that turned it round was Microsoft's investment:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=my

Also, they made a loss before this: http://web.archive.org/web/19981202...leases/1997/q2/970115.pr.rel.q197earning.html

You do realize the difference between share price and cash and cash equivalents don't you?

You do realize that a loss in a quarter does not mean that you are bankrupt don't you?

Kid, really, give it up while you are way behind. You simply don't know what they hell you are talking about.

 

[mhouse]

A Quick Summary

You do realize that they would have to answer to shareholders about why they are giving up 5% of their profits don't you. Corporate officers have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value. How would cutting Mac development maximize shareholder value?

Also, if Apple got more than ten percent of the market, it would represent a major market for MS to sell software to. So, your assumption that the profit percentage would stay at 5% is also flawed. So, conceivably, MS could be giving away 10-15% of their profits in your scenario.

Again, please think before you post.

Shiny, I don't think its going to work.

Let me sum up Aldo's thinking so we don't have to read him anymore...

-Apple sucks and they exist only at Microsoft's discretion and there is nothing that Apple or any other entity on Earth can ever do about it. And, despite the fact that MS never owned anything other than 7% of non-voting stock, Apple is still mysteriously indebted to them until THE END OF TIME ITSELF. And I hate George Bush. The end.

Did I miss anything?

 

[shiny]

They could easily explain away the pullout from Mac software development - something like 'we can't compete against Apple without investing too much in development' or similar.

But, because of the SEC reporting requirements we know that they actually make a profit in the Mac software field. Thus, everyone, including shareholders would realize that it was a lie. Corporations and corporate execs who lie to shareholders are not looked upon nicely by Wall Street. The price of MS stock would take a beating.

Again, I ask you, what would be the business reason behind any of this. MS sells software to Apple users. The more Apple users simply means a larger market to sell into.

 

[shiny]

Shiny, I don't think its going to work.

Let me sum up Aldo's thinking so we don't have to read him anymore...

-Apple sucks and they exist only at Microsoft's discretion and there is nothing that Apple or any other entity on Earth can ever do about it. And, despite the fact that MS never owned anything other than 7% of non-voting stock, Apple is still mysteriously indebted to them until THE END OF TIME ITSELF. And I hate George Bush. The end.

Did I miss anything?

Nope, I think you have him and his attitude completely figured out. I should have looked at his profile before all of this. He was born in 1988. He was a child when all of this stuff was happening.
I won't bother answering any more of his posts.

 

[aldo]

You do realize the difference between share price and cash and cash equivalents don't you?

You do realize that a loss in a quarter does not mean that you are bankrupt don't you?

Kid, really, give it up while you are way behind. You simply don't know what they hell you are talking about.

Of course I know a loss in a quarter means they are not bankrupt. However it brings substance to my argument that without the $150million share investment plus the $100million deal to bundle IE plus the fact they set up the Mac Business Unit, drawing more investors in.

 

[pourhadi]

Didn't that all transpire because of an Apple lawsuit against MS anyway?

 

[aldo]

But, because of the SEC reporting requirements we know that they actually make a profit in the Mac software field. Thus, everyone, including shareholders would realize that it was a lie. Corporations and corporate execs who lie to shareholders are not looked upon nicely by Wall Street. The price of MS stock would take a beating.

Again, I ask you, what would be the business reason behind any of this. MS sells software to Apple users. The more Apple users simply means a larger market to sell into.

They make more profit off Windows than Office, IIRC. Therefore a small marketshare for Windows would mean less profit in the long run.

Not to mention they could simply rejig their MBU around, making it part of the office group and then simply dropping the product from the inventory. You seem to be very niave in thinking they couldn't drop products from their inventory - they have done it many times in the past, even when they are making a profit.