Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone

[icanhazmac]

Whenever someone wants to make anything new legal, people say it will lead to the end of the world.
The funny thing is that they say that even when other countries already legalized and live happily.
Windows and macOS already have this, I'm fine with both. Android too.

I also find that whenever someone has a dissenting position those that do not have good arguments use hyperbole in an effort to discredit those positions.

Please, link a post of mine that claims “the world is ending”. I think I have put forth a reasonable version of how I believe the App Store will fragment and the customer experience will suffer.

Yes, it could mirror the PC/Mac marketplace but that doesn’t mean the PC/Mac marketplace is better or should be the only one. I would prefer the Mac store be like iOS.

 

[StyxMaker]

Everyone of these third party app stores will collapse and then what? Apple customers loved the walled garden. The fighting over scraps will see a lot of start ups collapse.

I understand that the Arabic word for a walled garden is paradise.

 

[cicalinarrot]

I also find that whenever someone has a dissenting position those that do not have good arguments use hyperbole in an effort to discredit those positions.

Please, link a post of mine that claims “the world is ending”. I think I have put forth a reasonable version of how I believe the App Store will fragment and the customer experience will suffer.

Yes, it could mirror the PC/Mac marketplace but that doesn’t mean the PC/Mac marketplace is better or should be the only one. I would prefer the Mac store be like iOS.

I had a pretty clear argument you haven't replied to: there are already great OSs with multiple stores, it's not a real problem and that thing about disappearing apps has never happened on any worrying scale.

 

[seek3r]

iOS about to become a bloated mess in all countries

MacOS somehow is just fine, iOS will become slightly maclike, such a horror 🙄

 

[JapanApple]

No. That's simply not true. For example, there are 3rd party apps that become defacto required...take WhatsApp for example. Where I live it is a mandatory app for doing business. But when Meta decides to deliver their app outside the Apple App store, they are going to bypass Apple's strict standards on data collection. And I will be forced to use their app due to it being required for me to do business.

This idea that there's no harm being done here is a manufactured talking point.

This is what people like myself are concerned about. Yet there are people here trying to say 3rd party locations of apps for Apple devices are their right. Well, most of these people are noticeably for the most part reverse engineering Apple app and their devices for the wrong reason other than stealing the app creator's content. We deal with the EU etc. We use WHATS-APP because that's what is used in business when we do business with suppliers and tech support people. If I have to Download a directed download app for said app (and the company phones DON'T NOT ALLOW 3rd party app stores (even though Apple approved) what do I do? My company iPhone is locked down for security reasons! They said they would not allow 3rd party app stores to be downloaded onto the company iPhones; because of security reasons! Did Apple think about this when they let the EU control this? security is why my company switched over to iPhones over Android (for years they used all other mobile solutions). We are not even allowed to use Bluetooth in offices because of security reasons.

 

[Aoligei]

This is what people like myself are concerned about. Yet there are people here trying to say 3rd party locations of apps for Apple devices are their right. Well, most of these people are noticeably for the most part reverse engineering Apple app and their devices for the wrong reason other than stealing the app creator's content. We deal with the EU etc. We use WHATS-APP because that's what is used in business when we do business with suppliers and tech support people. If I have to Download a directed download app for said app (and the company phones DON'T NOT ALLOW 3rd party app stores (even though Apple approved) what do I do? My company iPhone is locked down for security reasons! They said they would not allow 3rd party app stores to be downloaded onto the company iPhones; because of security reasons! Did Apple think about this when they let the EU control this? security is why my company switched over to iPhones over Android (for years they used all other mobile solutions). We are not even allowed to use Bluetooth in offices because of security reasons.

Android have allowed third party App Store for long time. Did Facebook left Google Play Store and had its own App Store?

When EU forced third party App Store into iOS, did Facebook pulled their app from App Store?

The answer is no

If your company have locked down the iPhone, assuming your company has proper IT management, then why would you worry about third party App Store if it cannot be installed in first place?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

This is what people like myself are concerned about. Yet there are people here trying to say 3rd party locations of apps for Apple devices are their right. Well, most of these people are noticeably for the most part reverse engineering Apple app and their devices for the wrong reason other than stealing the app creator's content. We deal with the EU etc. We use WHATS-APP because that's what is used in business when we do business with suppliers and tech support people. If I have to Download a directed download app for said app (and the company phones DON'T NOT ALLOW 3rd party app stores (even though Apple approved) what do I do? My company iPhone is locked down for security reasons! They said they would not allow 3rd party app stores to be downloaded onto the company iPhones; because of security reasons! Did Apple think about this when they let the EU control this? security is why my company switched over to iPhones over Android (for years they used all other mobile solutions). We are not even allowed to use Bluetooth in offices because of security reasons.

If your job requires Whatsapp, I'm sure your IT manager would have a change of heart should your fears come to pass. In the real world, things change all the time.

What I've yet to hear is an explanation about why Meta would take their software to a new store. If it's as tempting and lucrative as you make it out to be, why has it not happened on Android, Windows, MacOS? Android and Windows are far more widely used individually than Apple's iOS.

 

[JapanApple]

If it's as tempting and lucrative as you make it out to be, why has it not happened on Android, Windows, MacOS? Android and Windows are far more widely used individually than Apple's iOS.

What? No idea what tree you're barking up?

 

[Aoligei]

What?

If Facebook is all about collecting your data, and their App Store version is as restrictive as you believe, why aren’t they pulled out from Play Store and made their own Facebook Store on Android?

And it has been while since third party App Store is allowed on iOS, why hasn’t Facebook pull WhatsApp on Apple’s App Store?

 

[betazero]

So will Sony be forced to open the PlayStation store to third parties like steam? Same with Nintendo or Xbox… this kind of behavior is very curious as to who is demanding it… I imagine some Japanese companies who are jealous of what Apple built…so Apple should be able (not that they would) to put its App Store on PlayStation, Samsung , google, Xbox or Nintendo…weird stuff …

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I can't believe people keep parroting this...

What happens when an app you already own decides to join the Epic, Microsoft, Meta, Amazon, Steam, etc store via an exclusive distribution agreement? Exclusive agreement meaning they will remove their app from the Apple store.

I will tell you... you will be forced to either abandon an app you already paid for or you will be forced to join another store. Soon users will have an app store account for all of the above which is yet another way for them to hoover your data.

Then stop using that app if you care that much about which store the developer chooses.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I legit can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not…

The "oh wait..." at the end didn't give it away?

 

[Philip_S]

Competition is always good for consumers.

Exception: purely artificial competition such as electricity retail in many markets where they’re all buying the same commodity at the same price from the same wholesaler and the only distinction is the letterhead and which customers get bilked the worst.

 

[Aoligei]

So will Sony be forced to open the PlayStation store to third parties like steam? Same with Nintendo or Xbox… this kind of behavior is very curious as to who is demanding it… I imagine some Japanese companies who are jealous of what Apple built…so Apple should be able (not that they would) to put its App Store on PlayStation, Samsung , google, Xbox or Nintendo…weird stuff …

I don’t need purchase game from Xbox store or PlayStation Store. I can purchase game from retailer, I can also purchase download key from website or I can buy used game.

Apple can also put its store on Android devices, if they willing to do. This would be welcome, the us Android users can access iOS apps, if Apple figures out a way let iOS apps run on Android.

 

[deckard666]

I thought John Gruber made a good point

“Laws like this are protectionist attacks that specifically target two U.S. companies — Apple and Google. The United States should treat this as a trade war, and reciprocate by passing legislation mandating third-party game stores and payments on game consoles from Sony and Nintendo. See how they like it. It’s patently hypocritical that Japan’s law targets only phones; this law wouldn’t exist if Sony were a player in phones and mobile platforms.”

 

[Philip_S]

IP is a concept that was invented to facilitate the industrial revolution

IP is a concept that was invented as a way to try to get all the benefits and none of the downsides of copyright, patents, and trademarks all applied to each other and turned into a human/civil right that had to be preserved forever.

Copyright, as established globally by the Berne convention, was to ensure Victor Hugo’s grandchildren wouldn’t have to work for a living.

Trademarks were supposed to be about protecting customers from fraud, but the law in most countries has entirely forgotten that pretext.

 

[Philip_S]

Because there are generally agreed upon principles. Apple is not a monopoly by generally agreed upon principles. If words have no meaning, if we can't agree on basic definitions of basic words in a conversation, then there's no point to any of us talking about anything.

We really need a snappier term for the kind of company/group that gets called things like “structurally significant”, i.e. companies which are rich enough or powerful enough that they can apply effective pressure on other market participants or even governments.

A monopoly in either the strict theoretical sense or in the broader legal sense is just one way of achieving that status, but any company that achieves that status has the potential to become a problem for society with little or no notice.

 

[Aoligei]

I thought John Gruber made a good point

“Laws like this are protectionist attacks that specifically target two U.S. companies — Apple and Google. The United States should treat this as a trade war, and reciprocate by passing legislation mandating third-party game stores and payments on game consoles from Sony and Nintendo. See how they like it. It’s patently hypocritical that Japan’s law targets only phones; this law wouldn’t exist if Sony were a player in phones and mobile platforms.”

LOL…There is no country that is more protectionist than United States.

Sure, US can do the same thing. What is next? EU and Japan will force Microsoft open up its own Xbox store? Forcing Microsoft to split like how US tried back in 90s?

You can’t take John Gruber seriously.

 

[NufSaid]

Be careful what you wish for.​

What is next...XBox must allow Playstation games or outside app stores?
What I do see is pay for access app stores from companies and you end with a dozen subscriptions to manage.


PS One lone bright spot I can see is that politically "incorrect" apps could be loaded - removes a source of censorship by just a couple companies.

 

[Philip_S]

My only disagreement with this post is if Sony wants to have an in-house studio they should be allowed to and if that game is great they shouldn't be forced to open that game to other platforms.

I’d lean towards saying that they can either be a distributor of third party games or a producer of games (indeed, the same principle for supermarkets), but not both.

However, IMO a more important rule would be that for any programmable electronic device where the vendor is paid, directly or indirectly, for the distribution of additional software for that device, they must provide the owner of the device the same access to documentation plus everything necessary to instal their own software with the same privileges as that additional software, without any additional fees, other than a computer with a readily available architecture and third-party software available without charge or applicable usage restrictions.

 

[Philip_S]

Finally it's all about advertising and people like to browse the app store and get notifications/recommendations

Do they? I can’t say I’ve discovered any app I use via the App Store since Apple stopped the Free App of the Week promotion.

 

[Philip_S]

if you want a phone that lets you do whatever you want, and makes no attempt to protect you from scams, and your own stupidity, buy an android,

I want a phone with no OS-level spyware, security updates, decent hardware, and root login. No one offers that at the moment, but the closest we can get with one verifiable change is forcing Apple to allow root access and thus getting a phone with just a bit of OS-level spyware, security updates, decent hardware, and root access. Then we just have to figure out how to remove the spyware.

 

[icanhazmac]

I want a phone with no OS-level spyware, security updates, decent hardware, and root login. No one offers that at the moment, but the closest we can get with one verifiable change is forcing Apple to allow root access and thus getting a phone with just a bit of OS-level spyware, security updates, decent hardware, and root access. Then we just have to figure out how to remove the spyware.

So let me get this straight. So that you and the other .001% of people that care about this can have root access you are ok with opening up the over 150 million devices of others to "just a bit of OS-level spyware"? WOW!

People say that Apple is greedy this takes the cake.

 

[Philip_S]

Also you don’t carry your MacOD deceives all the time right? You carry your iPhone all the time, so privacy and security requirement is different.

If you haven’t disabled findMy, your location is available on your Mac too, but each user has to be given permission to access the data from the OS and that can be restricted. Your camera and audio devices are supposedly locked down by the OS, so a userspace program shouldn’t be able to access them without permission.

Apple has previously responded with WONTFIX to requests to allow false locations to be given to apps, which would make it even more secure.

Also, my MBA is within sight and sound of everything sensitive my phone is.

 

[icanhazmac]

Do they? I can’t say I’ve discovered any app I use via the App Store since Apple stopped the Free App of the Week promotion.

Yes, they do.

I discovered the contact manger app that I have been using daily (for work) for many years in the iOS app store.
I discovered the home inventory manager I use on the MacOS app store.
I discovered the recipe app my wife uses on the iOS app store.
I discovered several games that I play via the iOS app store.

These were all 100% found, compared to others, etc on the iOS or MacOS app stores. Other apps I have were combinations of looking at the app store, forums and web searches, but the app store was at least involved. I wish all the Mac apps I have were on the MacOS store so I would have to open accounts on all the individual dev sites and furnish my CC to all their unknown payment processors.

I appreciate the iOS style of store, One Stop Shop, versus the PC/Mac style of web searches.