Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone

[icanhazmac]

I think you're a little paranoid. Look at Android - alternative app stores exist, yet virtually everything of note is distributed via the central marketplace that is Google Play. I honestly think your concern is a non-issue because 9 times out of 10, people will use the default store.

You're worried about Meta or Amazon or whoever exclusively distributing their software via their marketplaces, but this simply has not happened.

That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I disagree and do not believe "paranoia" has anything to do with my opinion detailed here:

Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone

I have said this many times: It hasn't happened YET because TODAY companies could only open an Android store. If alt-stores are forced on Apple world-wide then the likes of Amazon, Epic, Meta, Steam, etc. will gladly open their own Mobile stores and move their own apps to it exclusively and...

forums.macrumors.com

It is my opinion that Alt-stores and exclusive distribution agreements have not happened YET. Why open a "mobile" app store when you can only service Android? You wouldn't, you would wait until you can service nearly all mobile customers, Android and iOS. Do you really think that Epic, for example, will sit back and only move their apps to their store? Nope, they will incentivize others to increase traffic to their store or web site, traffic is everything. Meta will do the same for their VR headset apps. Steam will do the same to keep pace, on and on and on.

I would probably bow out of this debate if as part of the developer agreement devs were required to maintain a presence on the Apple store. This way the "one stop shop" aspect of the iOS store would remain intact and I would be able to limit my exposure to fly by night payment processors.

This is nuttier than fruit cake.

How about debating without insults? While I might also consider it "nutty" that you don't think it will happen I choose to not belittle your opinion.

No developer is going to lose revenue by doing this. How many apps in Steam are exclusive to Steam?

Well this is your opinion but first off, Steam currently is servicing PC/Mac which is different than the possible advent of mobile gaming stores.

Secondly:

List of games exclusive to Steam - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

If what you’re saying is true then why hasn’t it happened on Android? Android has always allowed third party stores yet all of these apps still exist on the official app store.

Keep reading on to post #102 or the summary above, also, it is not "true", it is my opinion of what will happen IF alt-stores are forced upon us.

Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone

I have said this many times: It hasn't happened YET because TODAY companies could only open an Android store. If alt-stores are forced on Apple world-wide then the likes of Amazon, Epic, Meta, Steam, etc. will gladly open their own Mobile stores and move their own apps to it exclusively and...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Heteric]

Apple should issue a one time fee for unlocking App Store in such countries

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Why open a "mobile" app store when you can only service Android?

because there's ~3 billion android devices in use globally. Apple devices are another billion, sure, but the android market dwarfs it.

Do you really think that Epic, for example, will sit back and only move their apps to their store? Nope, they will incentivize others to increase traffic to their store or web site, traffic is everything.

You're ignoring the side of things were we can observe this already; Android. Meta doesn't have an app store. I believe Epic does, but I'm not aware of any must-have software being exclusive to it. Unless fortnite is absolutely critical in your life. Meta knows that, if you want people on Instagram, it has to be in the easiest to access stores.

I would probably bow out of this debate if as part of the developer agreement devs were required to maintain a presence on the Apple store. This way the "one stop shop" aspect of the iOS store would remain intact and I would be able to limit my exposure to fly by night payment processors.

How about instead, Apple offers equitable terms to their developers? It would look good on them, and businesses would have no reason to go elsewhere.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Please, do not pretend to know what's needed and what's not in my country better than me. That's not very civil. Precisely ONE bank has the option of a physical device.

So you have an actual choice, vote with your money and pick another bank. Or pick another bank with a separate digitalID.

Or are you incapable to see the irony of iOS AppStore being the only one thing.

 

[B4U]

Despite being in a household with two adults and two teenagers, we have never had a game console, yet the wife and I have owned smartphones since 2008. We have never had gaming computers, either.

Not everyone is a gamer.

I don't know how obvious do I have to say this, that was MY EXAMPLE.
On the other hand, does anyone of your household play games on said smartphone?
If so, that is your gaming console as well.

 

[J InTech82]

Kind of ironic that the number one selling handheld gaming system in Japan is the Nintendo Switch, which only has one App Store.

 

[Tago]

These days Android, which is not more secure out of the box, can be made much more secure than an iPhone.

So yes, I am in the process of moving away from Apple as more secure options exist.

Android is only secure if the premise is that your information is protected from Google. It isn´t, never was and never will be. Do I have dillutions about Apple? Not really, but your personal information isn´t their core business model. For Meta, Google and Microsoft since the Linked-in takeover to an increased extent, it is.

 

[q64ceo]

I can't believe people keep parroting this...

What happens when an app you already own decides to join the Epic, Microsoft, Meta, Amazon, Steam, etc store via an exclusive distribution agreement? Exclusive agreement meaning they will remove their app from the Apple store.

I will tell you... you will be forced to either abandon an app you already paid for or you will be forced to join another store. Soon users will have an app store account for all of the above which is yet another way for them to hoover your data.

Android allows for alternative app stores. This isn't a problem on Android as everything is on the Play Store. Why would it be a problem on iOS?

 

[Tago]

Not if you have your way, right? I mean, you don't want these laws passed in just the EU and Japan, you want these laws to exist globally. There is a tipping point at which the walled garden approach, my choice, will not exist if what you are advocating for happens. Once it's feasible for META to bypass Apple's strict rules on data collection and privacy, they'll jump ship. And there are apps that I am forced to use today, such as WhatsApp, that will no longer have the protections that Apple forces on META.

You're simply closing your eyes and ears to this argument.


Again, up until the point that your desire has been forced on Apple in enough of the world to destroy the walled garden approach that I prefer. It's disingenuous of you to argue that nothing will change when you want to see this forced upon Apple globally.



3.5 months, in one geographic location in the world, when what you are advocating for is a global ban on Apple's walled garden. Do you see the problem in you concluding that nothing has changed yet?



I'm not worried so much about small time criminals hiding in the dark. I'm worried about the big players, Meta, Google, OpenAI, Micorosoft and...wait for it...Government overreach such as the EU forcing your choice on me, rather than letting me choose a walled garden. Again, you're trying to minimize the real concerns about privacy and security. It may not mean much to you, but it does to me. And I'm not trying to force you to live in my walled garden by asking governments to play nanny to your decisions. You're free to choose differently.

Grant me that same right and respect.

People tend to forget that "Big Tech" feeding from personal information have mutual interests with governments lusting for the very same info. Apple was one of few that were fighting the UK "ban" on encryption.

 

[Tago]

Android allows for alternative app stores. This isn't a problem on Android as everything is on the Play Store. Why would it be a problem on iOS?

The problems with privacy and security on Android can hardly become worse whatever they impose upon it, whereas for Apple it will cause a degradation.

 

[icanhazmac]

Android allows for alternative app stores. This isn't a problem on Android as everything is on the Play Store. Why would it be a problem on iOS?

Read my post at the top of this page or post #102 for my take on that.

 

[Thecellphonesalesguy]

As a person who has worked in cellular sales and technical support for over eight years, I can tell you confidently that this move, while it will produce favorable results for some people, is an extreme overreach of authority. It’s like if the government where to dictate to a grocery store what brands they must sell, even if the grocery store has decided that they should weed out poor quality brands for the sake of their customers. This is the exact same thing with the way that iOS and the App Store works currently. Developers might not like this, but I see it every day how much this model benefits consumers. When it comes down to it, if you want a phone that lets you do whatever you want, and makes no attempt to protect you from scams, and your own stupidity, buy an android, but when Apple is forced to allow payments, don’t come crying when you can’t figure out how to cancel the subscriptions that you didn’t mean to sign up for, don’t come to crying when you download a malicious app that takes over your phone, don’t come crying when you realize you’re not as smart and text savvy as you thought you were when you’ve given up the privacy and security and the thing that made Apple be “Apple”.
Over 85% of people consider themselves to be above average intelligence…… What does that tell you?? People, by a pretty huge majority have no idea what they are doing, but are confident that they know best. It’s just crazy to me. It’s like somebody buying a computer that is marketed as a computer that can’t get a virus, and then they come crying to the government when the computer won’t let them install the virus that’s trying to trick them.

 

[Shirasaki]

Despite protests and outcry, Japan steps up and becomes the second country to curb the mobile market dominance Apple has within iOS sphere. This is definitely a move towards the right direction and will force Apple in a big way to do better, rather than writing more oppressive terms and conditions to suppress anyone opposing them.

Besides, Japan already has many different web stores hosting games, software and whatnot. It’s of no stranger to them to hop around multiple markets.

For Apple? They only have two choices. One is to comply and two is to pull out of Japanese market. I think Apple has expanded to all major markets existing in the world already, so pulling any of them out is tough for them to bite, plus stocks could fall should they actually pull out any of those.

Privacy and security of users? More like privacy and security of Apple’s user data than anything else.

 

[Shirasaki]

If I downloaded a pirated copy via BitTorrent then yes, it could absolutely be crawling with malware. That's why you shouldn't pirate software.

While I acknowledge that pirated software definitely has higher risk of malware than legit ones, pirating software may be the only choice for some folks to use them. But that’s another discussion for another day.

 

[Jetscreamer]

Oh my god! Other government intervention? When can governments just mind their own business? Let free market to decide! Big government at its finest, forcing its will to beloved corporation!

What government doesn’t understand is corporation is for its people, not for profit! Only Apple knows what is best for its users!

I hate this! Apple should get out of Japan ASAP, just like how they did in Europe, oh wait…

That’s what I have been screaming at in the middle of a busy street for decades. Mega corporation have always been about the welfare of the working class, and not profits for shareholders. Why can’t big government understand that?

 

[ACHD]

I find this funny. Everyone getting all pissed. when people can just choose to not use alternative app stores.

 

[Aoligei]

That’s what I have been screaming at in the middle of a busy street for decades. Mega corporation have always been about the welfare of the working class, and not profits for shareholders. Why can’t big government understand that?

You are doing it wrong. You should buy tons of HomePods and connect them together, and screaming on your iPhone!

And so true. Only Apple knows their customer, we are babies, Daddy Apple is taking care of us. Under Apple’s protection, we lives in Virus and bacteria free environment, we all lives forever. How can big government dare to destroy our way of life? We need Daddy Apple!

 

[Aoligei]

While I acknowledge that pirated software definitely has higher risk of malware than legit ones, pirating software may be the only choice for some folks to use them. But that’s another discussion for another day.

Piracy is way for us to say f**k to big corporations.

 

[Chungry]

Apple could have avoided all this scrutiny. All of it. But their stubbornness is singularly to blame for the unfavorable attention they are now receiving. Going back 3 years you could read articles or listen to podcasts in which unhappy developers bemoaned the issues, the lack of transparency and the fact that they wanted Apple to do better and not put a target on their back. Apple still acting like it’s Steve at the helm, but they wrote a check they can’t cash in this regard. Overreaches by govt entities or no- this is all apples fault full stop.

 

[Aoligei]

As a person who has worked in cellular sales and technical support for over eight years, I can tell you confidently that this move, while it will produce favorable results for some people, is an extreme overreach of authority. It’s like if the government where to dictate to a grocery store what brands they must sell, even if the grocery store has decided that they should weed out poor quality brands for the sake of their customers. This is the exact same thing with the way that iOS and the App Store works currently. Developers might not like this, but I see it every day how much this model benefits consumers. When it comes down to it, if you want a phone that lets you do whatever you want, and makes no attempt to protect you from scams, and your own stupidity, buy an android, but when Apple is forced to allow payments, don’t come crying when you can’t figure out how to cancel the subscriptions that you didn’t mean to sign up for, don’t come to crying when you download a malicious app that takes over your phone, don’t come crying when you realize you’re not as smart and text savvy as you thought you were when you’ve given up the privacy and security and the thing that made Apple be “Apple”.
Over 85% of people consider themselves to be above average intelligence…… What does that tell you?? People, by a pretty huge majority have no idea what they are doing, but are confident that they know best. It’s just crazy to me. It’s like somebody buying a computer that is marketed as a computer that can’t get a virus, and then they come crying to the government when the computer won’t let them install the virus that’s trying to trick them.

There is an unmanned island called Apple and bunch of people came to the island, developed the infrastructure. So more and more people settling at the Apple island.

In this island, there is a King called Tim Cook. He thinks the island is built by him, so he has authority to charged 30% of tax on every transaction.

There is only one supermarket called The Sup Store. Tim Cook claims that all the products sold on The Sup Store was carefully picked, free of any defects and 100% safe for its own citizen.

In order to protect safety of island inhabitants, Tim Cook does not allow anyone setup any stores. And every producers who wants to sell their product on The Sup Store will need to agree the TOC set up Tim Cook and every sale will be taxed at 30% rate (there maybe some exceptions, but Tim Cook isn’t going to tell you who gets preferential treatment).

Does this sound absurd to you? This is essentially what it is. Apple wants monopoly on app sales, they know this won’t fly for regulators, so they have to disguise it as safety and security issue.

Who is going to provide evident that third party App Store is inherit unsafe? Why is only Apple can make sure apps sold on its App Store safe? Why is Apple only one can provide satisfactory customer services, but not other?

You guys are intentionally mixing two unrelated issue and trying to mud the water.

 

[Chungry]

I think any metaphor that can be used in this is patently absurd. I’ll reiterate, this is all on Apple. Their actions. Their calculus about relative reactions and the possible consequences. They made a conscious choice and here we are. The rest is navel gazing.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Use Android instead if you don't like Apple's rules.

Conduct business elsewhere if you don’t like the EU and Japanese rules. Now that those arguments are out of the way…

 

[JapanApple]

Despite protests and outcry, Japan steps up and becomes the second country to curb the mobile market dominance Apple has within iOS sphere. This is definitely a move towards the right direction and will force Apple in a big way to do better, rather than writing more oppressive terms and conditions to suppress anyone opposing them.

Besides, Japan already has many different web stores hosting games, software and whatnot. It’s of no stranger to them to hop around multiple markets.

For Apple? They only have two choices. One is to comply and two is to pull out of Japanese market. I think Apple has expanded to all major markets existing in the world already, so pulling any of them out is tough for them to bite, plus stocks could fall should they actually pull out any of those.

Privacy and security of users? More like privacy and security of Apple’s user data than anything else.

Which are hacking sites. again, not everyone in Japan is doing this. Most are outside Japan. I know I was involved years ago in this group. And no, I don't hack devices anymore because people do grow up. Most Japanese don't want hacks on their iPhones. Android is where they play.

 

[Philip_S]

Amazing how many people forget that when Apple introduced the App Store it was considered an incredibly generous godsend to all the developers who were used to seeing ~70% cuts taken by retailers and metered delivery options.

True, but we’re now in a world where direct-to-consumer online sales are perfectly normal, and credit card legislation at least theoretically gives consumers protection against the most transparent scam apps (product not as described). If the developer wants to spend 30% on hosting, card handling, chargeback etc. risk, and OS-facilitated DRM, then fair enough, but the simple fact that all the locked-down platforms charge more or less 30% regardless of their expenses (including subsidised hardware in some cases) it rather suggests that there’s a lot of fat in some of those prices.

Also, the 70% cut that retailers and distributors got for boxed software still only translated into around 6% profit on that operation. Digital distribution really was a big step forward.

 

[JeMeCasse]

When the EU kicks off, the house of cards quickly falls.