Stella
macrumors G3
Why do people still go on about the 'secret features'?
All was revealed in WWDC.. there are NO secret features.
All was revealed in WWDC.. there are NO secret features.
Jobs: Leopard Will Anchor Product Schedule For A Decade
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Pants Dragon
macrumors regular
I'd like a short preview at WWDC 08, big preview at MWSF 09 and release in summer of 09 (Around WWDC). I think that's a fair timeline.
When the old supply runs out.
foniks2020
macrumors regular
You have to wonder if the enterprise has adopted that mindset BECAUSE windows is unpredictable with their updates... sure they do legacy support all the way back but they also change the way the system works for the user, requiring re-training... and they introduce it not just in the OS but also in Office which is what most people are using on Windows anyways. Seems to me they had a rock-solid foundation in Windows 2000/NT that they could have enhanced with new underlying foundation technology, without re-thinking/re-working the interface. OR if they had done it in smaller increments, it would have been less of a shock to the users.
Imagine if they had updated just the security model in XP first, (wait 18 months) then added in the Composited windowing system (without changing the interface look), (wait 12 months) updated Office to show off the windowing w/ some smaller additions to wMedia, etc... (wait 18 months) then finally announced a new version (Vista) which brought the OS UI and features up-to-date with all the underlying technologies they had earlier introduced (and tested/patched/upgraded).
That is the difference between OS X and Vista... OS X was incrementally improved with lots of user testing and developer tweaking as it went. This is actually easier to support from an IT POV than a big massive all-encompassing OS update.. ie: they only have to pay attention to a few changes at a time each year, rather than try to support a complete paradigm shift every 4 years or so.
All Macs sold on the 26th will have the DVD in the box.
Jon the Heretic
macrumors 6502
Myths about backwards compatibility
DOS is emulated/virtualized under XP and Vista; so are Win16s (16-bit Win 3.1 apps). They are essentially encapsulated, separate environments and do NOT affect the stability of overall OS. This is a very safe way to convey backwards compatibility.
What keeps Vista in the realm of the bloated are features that run amok, plus a need for last generation software to run NATIVELY (this includes all 32-bit app from Win95 and NT onward.) Keeping your last gen software runnning natively means lots of hacks to your OS so as not to break too much. This CAN hold you back.
Ironically, running old apps is not the problem. Win3.1 and DOS apps run neatly without making the overall OS stable; but running that copy of Office 97 does have some substantive tradeoffs.
Apple is in the same boat with keeping PPC and Carbon apps running natively on the MacOS X kernel, but that hasn't gotten out of hand yet. Last gen software compatibility always involves some tradeoffs, even for Apple. But running DOS/Win3.1 compatibility is more like Classic for Apple; removing this type of backwards compatibility doesn't make the core OS even a whit more stable, because the individual applications aren't running natively on the kernel anyway. They can't even talk directly to the hardware. Very safe.
For MS, there is no good reason to drop compatibility with these really old apps, and for newer apps, which do give them problems, well they feel like they can't drop compatibility with them. Apple's dropping Classic is really just out of meanness and disdain for their traditional base of Mac users and for the old OS. There is no technical advantage to having done so, not even a monetary one (cost almost nothing to keep it around). Dropping Rosetta support and Carbon however might actually help the core OS in lots of ways, but like MS, I am sure Apple doesn't feel like they could get away with that.
Windows 3, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT 3.1, NT3.51, NT4, 2000, XP, Vista... now Windows 7.
Just think, a whole bunch of code in their latest and "greatest"Vista is dedicated to working with MS Dos. Little wonder it sucks like a Dyson.
DOS is emulated/virtualized under XP and Vista; so are Win16s (16-bit Win 3.1 apps). They are essentially encapsulated, separate environments and do NOT affect the stability of overall OS. This is a very safe way to convey backwards compatibility.
What keeps Vista in the realm of the bloated are features that run amok, plus a need for last generation software to run NATIVELY (this includes all 32-bit app from Win95 and NT onward.) Keeping your last gen software runnning natively means lots of hacks to your OS so as not to break too much. This CAN hold you back.
Ironically, running old apps is not the problem. Win3.1 and DOS apps run neatly without making the overall OS stable; but running that copy of Office 97 does have some substantive tradeoffs.
Apple is in the same boat with keeping PPC and Carbon apps running natively on the MacOS X kernel, but that hasn't gotten out of hand yet. Last gen software compatibility always involves some tradeoffs, even for Apple. But running DOS/Win3.1 compatibility is more like Classic for Apple; removing this type of backwards compatibility doesn't make the core OS even a whit more stable, because the individual applications aren't running natively on the kernel anyway. They can't even talk directly to the hardware. Very safe.
For MS, there is no good reason to drop compatibility with these really old apps, and for newer apps, which do give them problems, well they feel like they can't drop compatibility with them. Apple's dropping Classic is really just out of meanness and disdain for their traditional base of Mac users and for the old OS. There is no technical advantage to having done so, not even a monetary one (cost almost nothing to keep it around). Dropping Rosetta support and Carbon however might actually help the core OS in lots of ways, but like MS, I am sure Apple doesn't feel like they could get away with that.
What about their home users. I would more venture to say that MS has no compelling reason to update windows very often is that every time somebody buys a PC, MS gets a sale of windows. They are a monopoly. Monopolies like MS generally don't have much of a compelling interest to develop when they have guaranteed income. The only time MS releases anything is when they have to - like with Internet explorer.
illegallydead
macrumors 6502a
12-18 weeks!?
Ok, as cool as new updates are, I don't like shelling out $120+ every year to year and a half. That's even with an education discount! WTF?
While I certainly agree that Microsoft's schedule kinda sucks, it's not like Apple's price scheme is much different. Windows = $400 every 5 years, Mac = $100 every 1-1.5 years. Not much of a difference, unfortunately.
Regular GOOD updates would be good, rather than new versions all the time...
Ok, as cool as new updates are, I don't like shelling out $120+ every year to year and a half. That's even with an education discount! WTF?
While I certainly agree that Microsoft's schedule kinda sucks, it's not like Apple's price scheme is much different. Windows = $400 every 5 years, Mac = $100 every 1-1.5 years. Not much of a difference, unfortunately.
Regular GOOD updates would be good, rather than new versions all the time...
flopticalcube
macrumors G4
I think that was the promise, i.e. you will really like the new OSs so much, you will buy them. Nothing really wrong with skipping a generation occasionally either.
Eric Lewis
macrumors 68020
great
i see Mac OSX 10.6 on 10/10/10
and the windows 7 will need 4gigs of ram
i see Mac OSX 10.6 on 10/10/10
and the windows 7 will need 4gigs of ram
Cloudsurfer
macrumors 65816
I would prefer a 24 month cycle. Give us time to breathe, Apple.
guzhogi
macrumors 68040
Maybe Apple's working on bringing Multitouch to the laptops? Would be cool. I'd like to see a tablet Mac. I know Other World Computing sells modded MacBooks as a tablet. Pretty cool. Add in multitouch and that would be AWESOME!
Another product I'd like to see is a Mac Mini,
TV and a DVR/TiVo all in one device. That would be really cool.I really hope they update the Mac Pros, xServes & xServe RAIDs soon. The current ones are getting a little long in the tooth. For the RAID, it should really have SATA and/or SAS. Most hard drives that I see now are SATA. Plus, make the controllers both independent AND redundant. That way, you can have a 0 + 1, 10 or 50 style RAID as well as a backup function where if 1 fails, the other would kick in for both.
Where and by whom was this promised. I don't remember Apple promising this in Tiger.
It was supposed to be in Spotlight. I admit I'm not a fan of Spotlight, but I question where you came up with the features that were "promised"
Hmm... maybe because Exposé fundamentally changes the way people used their computers, and SP releases are mostly bug fixes. I notice you conveniently ignored the other features of 10.3
No, because they didn't offer anything meaningful.
I don't buy that comparison. I could easily argue that I didn't have to purchase every OS X version in between to maintain similar functionality to Windows. Not only that, people tend to buy new Macs which come with the latest OS. Even if they don't, they could happily work with 10.2 to this day (as my Mom does) and their computers work as well as they always did.
skellener
macrumors 68000
I just hope Apple spends more time on the Mac in 2008 than the iPod, iPhone and AppleTV. There wasn't enough focus on the Mac in 2007. Now with Leopard ready to be released, they will pay more attention to the Mac. I'd like to see some new hardware options and some great new (completely new) software from Apple.
flopticalcube
macrumors G4
So would I but I don't think so. The dropping of Computer from the Apple name was more telling than people imagine. Expect to see Apple branch out even further and continue to flesh out their non-computer products even more. I am sure the Macs will get a look-in but the days when they took centre stage are over.
PlaceofDis
macrumors Core
So would I but I don't think so. The dropping of Computer from the Apple name was more telling than people imagine. Expect to see Apple branch out even further and continue to flesh out their non-computer products even more. I am sure the Macs will get a look-in but the days when they took centre stage are over.
don't be so sure about that. they've said that they have four areas: Computers, MP3 players, Phone, and Living room (Apple TV being a hobby project).
i think they've managed to balance all four relatively well this year so far and i expect the same from now on. each getting its own time to shine.
Kwill
macrumors 68000
Not sure where he's coming from here. I unlock my iphone, and it says "Slide to unlock" on the screen. There's a verb right there, and it also involves doing an action.
Am I missing something here?
"No verbs" does sound absolute. However, in the context of the article, when Jobs says "there are no verbs" he appears to be referring to operations that occur with no dialogs -- like tapping, rotataing, pinching, flicking, and swiping.
Sometimes in a phone interview it is not possible to think out how your responses will be interpreted or whether what is said is entirely accurate. In retrospect, it may have been better to state: 'We strived to eliminate "verbs" for many actions that previously relied on them.'
Is this post 6pm or from the store opening? Because if it's store opening, people who buy new macs before 6pm can run leopard before its officially released.
Cloudane
macrumors 68000
Let's just hope Leopard gets a better reception than Vista, which went down like a lead balloon (Shouldn't be difficult, if they haven't broken compatibility or gone OTT with security prompts)
The release schedule is fine. There were times I would've argued that yes Microsoft may have brought out fewer upgrades but that they're usually mammoth ones like XP and Vista, whilst Apple charge £85(!) every 12-18 months for what is basically a service pack (let's face it, Tiger wasn't much more than Panther+Spotlight). However Leopard seems like quite a big release, and probably worth it. If they keep up the kind of innovation they have been recently, they have a bright future ahead.
I had to pratt about with our chairman's PC this afternoon, trying to get a webcam working. First it took forever finding drivers, then it had all sorts of weird graphical problems relating to the motherboard's chipset, and everything you tried involved rebooting the thing and waiting ages for it to start up. In the end I had to downgrade the graphics performance (turn down the 3D acceleration). I said "you know, it's sad we can't use them here because we rely on Windows-only apps, but at home you'd love a Mac. There would've been none of this messing about - plug in a webcam and it just works... or nowadays has one built in". I think he's convinced
Anyway... it's highly reassuring that Macs are doing so well. I think the Vista debacle actually has a good chance of giving Macs a decent market share.
(Shouldn't be difficult, if they haven't broken compatibility or gone OTT with security prompts)The release schedule is fine. There were times I would've argued that yes Microsoft may have brought out fewer upgrades but that they're usually mammoth ones like XP and Vista, whilst Apple charge £85(!) every 12-18 months for what is basically a service pack (let's face it, Tiger wasn't much more than Panther+Spotlight). However Leopard seems like quite a big release, and probably worth it. If they keep up the kind of innovation they have been recently, they have a bright future ahead.
I had to pratt about with our chairman's PC this afternoon, trying to get a webcam working. First it took forever finding drivers, then it had all sorts of weird graphical problems relating to the motherboard's chipset, and everything you tried involved rebooting the thing and waiting ages for it to start up. In the end I had to downgrade the graphics performance (turn down the 3D acceleration). I said "you know, it's sad we can't use them here because we rely on Windows-only apps, but at home you'd love a Mac. There would've been none of this messing about - plug in a webcam and it just works... or nowadays has one built in". I think he's convinced
Anyway... it's highly reassuring that Macs are doing so well. I think the Vista debacle actually has a good chance of giving Macs a decent market share.
Indeed, windows 7 it will look like Vista, just they'll place taskbar on the top of the screen instead of the bottom. Also the "close" button will be placed at upper left corner, and not at the left as now. I suppose Explorer 8 will borrow some cool features from FireFox 3 and Safari 4. They'll waste about 10 billion $ on that and 3 years of work.
It's not really a "new OS". It is still the same old BSD unix inside and then some "user land" applications on top. They make some changes and additions to those user land applications. The process goes on continuously. The big question for Apple is how often to package it up as a release. I think they have to ask how often they can ask their users to pay up $129. If you hit them up every 12 moths maybe only a third will upgrade, with a longer upgrade interval you can collect up more changes and maybe get a higher fraction of your users to pay for the upgrade. It's all about maximizing the return they get.
citi
macrumors 65816
What about Professionals?
I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. While I love the fact Apple is really investing in their future, a major release every year and a half means that I (as a music producer) potentially need to pay for new Protools software, plug-ins, (don't tell me waves isn't going to capitalize on this) potentially new hardware and have to fear that some of my programs will just stop working. And yes, I can of course just not upgrade, but what can I say, Apple makes great products.
I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. While I love the fact Apple is really investing in their future, a major release every year and a half means that I (as a music producer) potentially need to pay for new Protools software, plug-ins, (don't tell me waves isn't going to capitalize on this) potentially new hardware and have to fear that some of my programs will just stop working. And yes, I can of course just not upgrade, but what can I say, Apple makes great products.