Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
As noted in my post (linked in my sig) I'm line-of-sight with a cell tower, about as close as I can legitimately get without having potential radiation damage from the RF and signal overload (and AT&T sure as hell isn't going to let me go up there for some up close testing), and my own experiment was done basically as this image clarifies:

theissue.png


and that's just how bad this particular iPhone 4 I have is. That's not inside a building, that's not inside my apartment (about 25 feet from the balcony), that's line-of-sight to the tower itself and the antenna array on it that I'm connecting with and that fingertip on that point bridging those two bands - fingertip, not some damned house key, not a piece of metal, just the skin of my finger and its natural capacitance - kills it in less than a minute.

If they can fix this with a firmware update, more power to 'em but I will continue to declare this thing defective by design, regardless.


So if I were to put a clear film or clear nail polish over the gap, would it solve the problem? Or would it still happen if I where to touch above it with one finger and below it with another (your first two pics at the same time)
 
I just repeated what I read from AppleInsider, in a simple way.

I just read the article, and it's straight up bogus.

A variety of people have demonstrated identical problems with other phones, from the Android based Nexus One to the iPhone 3GS.

Only when covering the antenna area with a tightly squeezed palm. I can reproduce the issue on my 3GS and get it down to 1 bar, but the signal is just fine when holding it normally (touching any part of the phone I please).

However, the fact that problems observed in the iPhone 3GS are much more pronounced when the device is upgraded to iOS 4 indicate that there is also a software issue involved in the matter

False. MacRumors posted a video from 2008 of the 3G losing all but one bar when tightly palmed.

Readers who saw the original forum discussions say that the issue is believed to occur when switching frequencies; because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly, it results in the device reporting "no service" rather than switching to the frequency with the best signal to noise ratio

1) This bug will only come into play when something is causing the iPhone to lose the signal in the first place, and

2) The 3GS, running the same OS, does not show "no service" when getting a very weak signal, so it's not a software issue concerning switching to a frequency with a better signal.

including the fact that the issue seems easily reproducible when connecting to a WWAN 3G network but does not appear when connecting to a Microcell 3G.

False. MacRumors user 'cmaier' experiences the issue with his 3G Microcell.

Yesterday, antenna design expert Spencer Webb posted his early appraisal of the situation, noting that the FCC mandates that cell phone antennas need to be positioned as far away from the user's head as possible...

As cmaier also touches upon in the linked post above, this expert seems to be talking about attenuation in general and not specifically touching the seam on the iPhone 4. In other words, yeah, cell signals are weaker when absorbed by the body, hands, and head.

Having only been launched for a day, I highly doubt this expert has any clue about the fact that touching the exterior of the iPhone 4 in a particular place is causing massive signal loss.
 
So if I were to put a clear film or clear nail polish over the gap, would it solve the problem? Or would it still happen if I where to touch above it with one finger and below it with another (your first two pics at the same time)

Yeah, I did that test too, holding the tip of the index and thumb on the left hand, one on each band, still lost the signal - I will admit it took a few seconds longer than the more direct "one finger approach" but the results were the same: loss of service totally.

As for the "cover up" solution, if I hold the iPhone in a napkin, cloth, etc - anything that prevents skin-on-metal contact directly - I get no problems with the signal, no noticeable degradation, the Pandora stream that I use for testing doesn't drop or buffer to any higher degree than it should or does (very rare from my apartment because of my proximity to the cell site), etc.

I won't apply anything to the phone, not tape, fingernail clear coat, nothing - it'll be in pristine condition for the return and I'm not taking any chances of leaving anything but fingerprints on it. :D

As also noted, I've got 2 other currently active cell phones (since I just got the iPhone 4 but it's going back for a refund and the money spent someplace else) and neither of them have any issues with signal degradation, loss, service interruption, etc. Motorola and LG units, no problems with 'em since I got 'em quite some time ago (and yes they're both using 3G from the same AT&T cell site). I joked that I'd have to basically pull out the SIM cards or the battery to lose service with either of 'em... :p

Edit:
One thing I've noted since owning this iPhone: the screen, the much fabled lusted after "Retina Display" isn't as big a deal as I'd hoped... but I've been using portable devices for nearly 2 decades so I've seen 'em all. While nice it's not a major selling point to me, and at the distance I keep the phone from my eyes (about 10-12") it looks pretty much the same as the older models with one quarter the resolution. Guess I'm going blind, who knows...
 
Not sure whether anyone has already posted this, but for what it's worth, this is from the iPhone 4 Important Product Information Guide in the Exposure to Radio Frequency Energy section:

"The iPhone cellular antenna is located at the bottom edge of iPhone, to the left of the Home button. The Wi-Fi and Bluetooth antenna is located at the top edge of iPhone, to the right of the headset jack.

For optimal mobile device performance and to be sure that human exposure to RF energy does not exceed the FCC, IC, and European Union guidelines, always follow these instructions and precautions: When on a call using the built-in audio receiver in iPhone, hold iPhone with the dock connector pointed down toward your shoulder to increase separation from the antenna."

When I hold my iPhone down toward my shoulder, my arm and hand automatically move in such a way that the cellular antenna does not touch the palm of my hand. It's uncomfortable to cradle the phone in that position.
 
I can't believe apple haven't made an announcement yet...!! These phones are faulty!!!!

They're not faulty, your hand is. How many times do you need to be told this!

/troll

But in all seriousness I have had next to no problems with signal on my iPhone 4.
 
You guys know about the limitations and regulations that the FCC impose when designing a mobile phone?

They impose that the antenna is furthest away from your head, so the only place Apple could put it is towards the bottom of the phone.

All modern day phones have the same situation.
 
I'm sure there will be a flood of lawsuits next week, some of which will be declared class action status. If the fault is truly a hardware problem, then a recall will probably happen after our bored Senators decide to investigate.

(By mentioning that there will likely be lawsuits, I am not expressing my personal opinion supporting them.)
 
Completely agree, if you hold the phone like a normal person no issue at all. I am pretty sure i don't see people cupping phone when walking around using them
 
Completely agree, if you hold the phone like a normal person no issue at all. I am pretty sure i don't see people cupping phone when walking around using them

When I hold my iPhone the way I naturally want to (and have been holding my iPod touch the same way for years) the signal totally drops.

I must be so strange! /s
 
You guys know about the limitations and regulations that the FCC impose when designing a mobile phone?

They impose that the antenna is furthest away from your head, so the only place Apple could put it is towards the bottom of the phone.

All modern day phones have the same situation.



What are you smoking?

There is not a single other phone on the market that can be demonstrated to lose all connectivity depending on how you hold it. (plenty of videos demonstrating this on the iphone)

It's not the FCC's fault. Their rules regarding antenna placement work pretty well in other phones.

This is an issue exclusive to the iphone's external antenna.
 
Hmmm... so Apple is asking you to hold the phone in an unnatural way.
I gotta ask: What's new? Didn't they always make you change the way you hold stuff?

I used to be a PC guy and I had developed what I believed to be a natural way of holding the mouse. I would rest my index finger on the left mouse button and the middle finger on the right button. Then I got my first Mac, a G4 Mini with a Mighty Mouse. I soon realized I couldn't hold it like a normal mouse because if you rested any fingers on the right side, it wouldn't register left clicks properly, so I had to develop some weird British coffee-drinking style of holding the mouse, with one finger sticking out.

Then I got an iMac and this was my first encounter with the new aluminum keyboard, which was nothing like a regular keyboard with a palmrest and normal stroke length – instead it had these strange chicklet keys with a different response. I know they're technically in the same positions as on regular keyboards, but I still kept typing "3proiusefökljaerae2aoijs" if I didn't look directly at the keyboard. It took me a few weeks before it became second nature to type on the chicklet keys. Not to mention the fact that I had to move my desk due to reflections from the window on the glossy screen.

Later I replaced my Dell laptop with a MBP. I'm not gonna suggest my previous way of using the laptop was "natural" or remotely ergonomic, but what I liked to do was to sit on the couch, push my legs up and use them to elevate the laptop. Doing this with the MBP is nigh impossible because it has this sharp edge that tries to cut your wrists open, so it can't be used comfortably in an elevated position. I had to find a new position for 'couch computing'.

And then there's the Magic Mouse... I'm not even gonna start on that one, but if anyone can explain to me how you can hold that thing in a 'natural' way associated with traditional computer mice, let me know.

So why is reprogramming your way of holding the phone such a biggie with the iP4? Is it because it's popular far outside the circle of people who are used to adapting themselves to Apple's products? I don't really see what's new here. Apple makes products that look really nice and different and if that means steamrolling any ergonomic conventions, they won't flinch.

You guys know about the limitations and regulations that the FCC impose when designing a mobile phone?

They impose that the antenna is furthest away from your head, so the only place Apple could put it is towards the bottom of the phone.

All modern day phones have the same situation.
Let's not diffuse the issue here. It's perfectly true that all phones suffer from some level of signal attenuation due to your hand partially obstructing the antenna's clear path. You might lose one or two bars of signal strength that way. But with the iPhone 4 it's not about that. It's about an electrical issue, the fact that you can bridge the two antennas with your fingers. This won't merely attenuate the signal in the sense that your fingers are "in the way", instead it will totally ******* up the very function of the antenna until the signal completely dies. Apples and oranges buddy.
 
Did we not all read on this very site about the iPhone 4 antenna being purposely placed where it was so that the antenna is extended when held in the hand ?? This would have been as part of the pre-keynote rumours or keynote coverage.

Certainly a non-issue for those of us who held off for a few days, I'll just give the phone a miss, wait for iPhone 5 instead with its design flaws corrected. As said before, I bet the chinese fakes don't have this annoying feature.

I can see that this is a non-issue while texting, or using an app, but actually using it as a phone will cause it far too often.

On a lighter note, just how are you meant to hold it ? you can't touch the front or back - you'll scratch the glass after a few days. Can't touch the sides, or bottom, it'll short out the antennae. The iPhone 3GS is starting to look like a design icon while the iPhone 4 will quickly be forgotten as a design disaster.

Performa 5200 came straight into my mind when I read the list of issues.
 
iphone4 Answers please

I was on a waiting list to get the new iPhone but the reality of what is being reported with signal loss causes me to wait and see. I can't believe Apple hasn't made an announcement yet. Some key points for me are:

1. Steve J had problems with the phone at his key note
2. I was always a bit perplexed by the push for bumpers which seemed somewhat odd
3. The level of Mac Rumour complaints

It all adds up to a major design fault - Apple need to come clean on this
 
As I don't currently own the iPhone 4, I wanted to try and experience this issue for myself. I seemingly do not have any issues with signal loss on my 3GS with iOS4. I went to my local Apple store (actually had to wait in line just to browse) to handle the phone. Unfortunately I was able to reduce the signal on two of the display models simply by touching that spot. It was only by two bars but the phone displayed full service when held in any other manner. I also noticed that when I hold it in my right hand, the tip of my ring finger covers that gap. Of course I could simply move my finger one cm up or down, but I have to make a concious effort to do so. This obviously isn't much of a test and doesn't prove much but it is odd that contacting only that tiny spot would cause any signal loss. I also noticed that at times in the store when my 3GS displayed three or four bars, the iP4 displayed full service (except when touching that gap).

On a more positive note, the new display looks frickin' amazing! It really is like looking at a page in a magazine, very crisp and clear.
 
There is not a single other phone on the market that can be demonstrated to lose all connectivity depending on how you hold it. (plenty of videos demonstrating this on the iphone)

It's not the FCC's fault. Their rules regarding antenna placement work pretty well in other phones.

This is an issue exclusive to the iphone's external antenna.

Well said!

This _is_ beyond a doubt an _Apple_ Problem.

Users can deny it all they want, but this is very real.
 
Just got another call, completely new location now (other side of city). Fine in right hand, move phone into left hand and call dropped.

Are people ACTUALLY suggesting this isn't an issue?
 
Well Said

I think that most of the people claiming that they are dropping calls because of it are trolls and shills anyway. Ya, it's a little annoying, but not that big of a deal. Of course all of "the usual suspects" are having a field day crying about it.


Well said

I wonder if people are really upset about this? Or is this just another opportunity to bash Apple, I have a hard time believing that anybody really holds there phone cupped in the palm of there hand and if by some chance you are one of few (my little cousin she is 5 and has not yet developed the fine motor skills to hold the phone like an adult or that chimp* from the you tube video) Then buy a case for you phone problem solved.

*the chimp is a fictional character used to make a point please do not look for video on you tube.
 
Completely agree, if you hold the phone like a normal person no issue at all. I am pretty sure i don't see people cupping phone when walking around using them

Troll.

Seriously? When most right handed people are talking on the phone and holding it to their ear their palm happens to touch that area. Look at the original iPhone ad and the way the hand is holding the phone. That is a normal grip.
 
Well said

I wonder if people are really upset about this? Or is this just another opportunity to bash Apple, I have a hard time believing that anybody really holds there phone cupped in the palm of there hand and if by some chance you are one of few (my little cousin she is 5 and has not yet developed the fine motor skills to hold the phone like an adult or that chimp* from the you tube video) Then buy a case for you phone problem solved.

*the chimp is a fictional character used to make a point please do not look for video on you tube.

That was the dumbest argument I've ever heard. Calling all of us chimps?
I LOVE the iPhone 4 and Apple. I've progressively switched all my tech stuff over to Apple over the years. But my iPhone 4, HAS AN ISSUE THAT WONT LET ME USE IT AS A REGULAR PHONE. How difficult is that to understand?
I don't have to CUP the phone, all I have to do is touch that bottom left part with my palm or my fingers, and reception goes down IMMEDIATELY in a weak reception area, and over the course of a few second in 3G areas.
HOw is that MY PROBLEM and not Apple's to fix? Especially when there's so many of us out there.
So stop being such a fanboy. I DON'T want steve jobs to burn in hell, I just want my phone to work without me having to do acrobatics in order to hold it right!!
 
Completely agree, if you hold the phone like a normal person no issue at all. I am pretty sure i don't see people cupping phone when walking around using them

You guys have to stop thinking this. It may be true with strong signal but my i4 drops service just about any way you hold it in my home where my 3g and 3gs are fine. I am an iPhone fanatic but there is a real problem with this phone and it is not over reacting.
 
Completely agree, if you hold the phone like a normal person no issue at all.
So what you're saying is that Apple managed to find nothing but abnormal people for starring in their Face Time commercial? About 9 out of 10 actors in that video are holding the phone in a way that would short the antennas and kill the signal. Especially when they're holding it in landscape mode, then it doesn't matter if you're right or left handed, you will hold it by the four corners and one of those corners is the infamous no-touchy-touchy zone.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.