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Jobs says Signal Strength a "non issue"
- Thread starter samcraig
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I think it's absolutely proof of deceptive advertising. I don't know how Apple's lawyers could convincingly argue to the contrary. The specific pamphlet text (posted previously in the thread) is below.
"The iPhone cellular antenna is located at the bottom edge of iPhone, to the left of the Home button. The Wi-Fi and Bluetooth antenna is located at the top edge of iPhone, to the right of the headset jack.
For optimal mobile device performance and to be sure that human exposure to RF energy does not exceed the FCC, IC, and European Union guidelines, always follow these instructions and precautions: When on a call using the built-in audio receiver in iPhone, hold iPhone with the dock connector pointed down toward your shoulder to increase separation from the antenna."
For optimal mobile device performance and to be sure that human exposure to RF energy does not exceed the FCC, IC, and European Union guidelines, always follow these instructions and precautions: When on a call using the built-in audio receiver in iPhone, hold iPhone with the dock connector pointed down toward your shoulder to increase separation from the antenna."
Another thing about that text is that it seems to definitively disprove the notion that the iPhone has a wrap-around antenna.
A longtime creeper's two cents about this saga
Today, under the impression that some people aren't being effected by the iPhone's reception issues, I exchanged my iPhone 4 for another one because I was having the same signal problem that everyone else seems to be having and wanted one of those non-effected phones. On the way to the store, I was constantly checking my phone for the signal problem while blocking the antenna. It was found that, in some areas, the phone experienced this problem while in others it did not. Continuing to the apple store, the indecisive signal bars continued to drop and increase, despite my hand covering the trouble spot the whole time.
Arriving at the Apple store, my phone was acting normally (bars dropping when trouble spot covered). Upon demonstrating the flaw to the store clerk, my phone was exchanged, and lo, the problem persisted.
On the ride home, I alternated between holding the trouble spot and not holding the trouble spot on the new phone. While holding the trouble spot, I lost signal in the same areas as I did on the drive to the apple store. However, when I wasn't blocking the trouble spot, I experienced no signal loss.
Here is my hypothesis: those who say that they are NOT experiencing this problem just haven't experienced it YET. I believe that these people live in areas with strong ATT reception, and for that reason - even with the trouble spot obstructed - they do not experience signal loss. Therefore, I believe that this issue exists based on location, and is made worse by apple's design flaw.
Because people who state that they do not have this issue live in areas of strong ATT reception - and AREN'T touring the nation to determine if their reception changes based on location - they wouldn't otherwise know if this problem really does exist for them until they venture away from their enclave of great ATT reception. Thus, it really is a non-issue for them, for the time being.
Software, I believe, plays a small part. A 3GS, which I know experienced no prior signal degradation when "death gripped" before iOS4 upgrade, now does. This would imply that software has changed the way the phone displays bars, or obtains signal.
Do I think software is fully responsible? No way. Do I think it plays a part in this ordeal, along with the iPhone's location and seeming design flaw? I'd say so.
Today, under the impression that some people aren't being effected by the iPhone's reception issues, I exchanged my iPhone 4 for another one because I was having the same signal problem that everyone else seems to be having and wanted one of those non-effected phones. On the way to the store, I was constantly checking my phone for the signal problem while blocking the antenna. It was found that, in some areas, the phone experienced this problem while in others it did not. Continuing to the apple store, the indecisive signal bars continued to drop and increase, despite my hand covering the trouble spot the whole time.
Arriving at the Apple store, my phone was acting normally (bars dropping when trouble spot covered). Upon demonstrating the flaw to the store clerk, my phone was exchanged, and lo, the problem persisted.
On the ride home, I alternated between holding the trouble spot and not holding the trouble spot on the new phone. While holding the trouble spot, I lost signal in the same areas as I did on the drive to the apple store. However, when I wasn't blocking the trouble spot, I experienced no signal loss.
Here is my hypothesis: those who say that they are NOT experiencing this problem just haven't experienced it YET. I believe that these people live in areas with strong ATT reception, and for that reason - even with the trouble spot obstructed - they do not experience signal loss. Therefore, I believe that this issue exists based on location, and is made worse by apple's design flaw.
Because people who state that they do not have this issue live in areas of strong ATT reception - and AREN'T touring the nation to determine if their reception changes based on location - they wouldn't otherwise know if this problem really does exist for them until they venture away from their enclave of great ATT reception. Thus, it really is a non-issue for them, for the time being.
Software, I believe, plays a small part. A 3GS, which I know experienced no prior signal degradation when "death gripped" before iOS4 upgrade, now does. This would imply that software has changed the way the phone displays bars, or obtains signal.
Do I think software is fully responsible? No way. Do I think it plays a part in this ordeal, along with the iPhone's location and seeming design flaw? I'd say so.
Just tried 10 different phones in the apple store in the mall and all have this problem. So my new one coming next week will prob. have it also.
I think I believe the senior apple rep. It might be that some people give off diff. electrical currents from their body. Fraken I can't explain why it's happening.
It happens w/ the bumper case on as well for me.
I think I believe the senior apple rep. It might be that some people give off diff. electrical currents from their body. Fraken I can't explain why it's happening.
It happens w/ the bumper case on as well for me.
i wasn't even going to respond to a hard core apple fan boy, but i just had to since i finished boxing up my 2nd iphone 4 to ship back for a refund.
First, anyone who is stupid enough to go spend 50 to 100 on a blue tooth headset so they can use their phone is a foolish consumer, be my guest, but i won't spend another 50 buck to make an iphone a working phone
now for the at&t rant, my 3g and 3gs worked perfect here. the iphone 4's dont so i cant blame at&t.
maybe you ought to go join the other guy who said Everybody uses case on their phone earlier in this thread,
he is over in another thread between 2 guys in the UK debating an app to test for the apple signal or something like that
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/952439/
he told then to get the at&t and complain to at&t
one of the guys in the UK said ,, What would at&t care about my signal problem in the UK
lol
WOW. I finally took the case off my iPhone 4 and put my left hand on the corner of the phone and my bars went from 5 to 2, and then when I took it off and laid it down it went back to 5 bars. When a case is on my phone, it stays at 5 bars. I thought people were exaggerating when they said the phone dropped service.
I'm sure that AT&T sucks and whatever, but if you look at the poll on the front page you'll find that in Japan, UK, France and Germany, roughly 50% of iPhone 4 users in those countries are experiencing this reception issue as well. It's not an exclusive AT&T issue and it's not a question of a small faulty batch, it affects ≈50% of iPhone 4 users globally. Japan is so small and so packed with people and infrastructure and cells/towers everywhere that you probably have to go 800 yards underground to lose reception.
and i'm fine with that. my phone has this issue no where at all that I use it. so it's a non issue for me, I don't care why it's not I just care that it's not
My does not exhibit this either yet, however if I discover it on travel- i'll be pissed if I can't call. Real pissed.
As long as you don't plan on going anywhere in the next year or two that you haven't been in the last 3 days then you should be fine...
Despite what everyone believes on the issue, I think we can all agree it's unfortunate that some people are having difficulties. Everyone should be enjoying their new iPhone this weekend and it's a shame that some are not able to. Hopefully Monday will bring a fix or something.
I think we're also finding this to be true in our hand-holding tests. Though I don't really know enough about antennas to know what I'm talking about.
You know: follow me here...
Why don't they just come up with a hardware fix for it. Something along the lines of a silver matching hard rubber band (if you will) that wraps a portion of the phone. They could blend it in, make it uniform and cool- and solve the issue (assuming of course this hard rubber material would allow the effects to disappear.)
Hell, Toyota just fixes a boatload of cars; I figure Apple could bang this out in a month or so, and life goes on.
I dunno; thinking out loud here...
Why don't they just come up with a hardware fix for it. Something along the lines of a silver matching hard rubber band (if you will) that wraps a portion of the phone. They could blend it in, make it uniform and cool- and solve the issue (assuming of course this hard rubber material would allow the effects to disappear.)
Hell, Toyota just fixes a boatload of cars; I figure Apple could bang this out in a month or so, and life goes on.
I dunno; thinking out loud here...
ok. quick test for 3GS users:
if you have a 3GS (with iOS4)...hold the phone in your right hand...palm and all (just like everyone with iPhone 4 is saying they are having the problem when held in left hand).
you will notice you will lose all signal and cant surf the net etc. completely dead.
Same iPhone 4 issue occurs with 3GS.
Please explain to me how this can in any way be a iphone 4 hardware design failure.
Its not hardware.
Its software.
Just because people are posting youtube videos showing calls dropped and transmissions impacted, that actually doenst prove anything. Sure drops are called...you can tell that from seeing the bars collapse.
whats going on here?
well without getting too technical (and thanks to another macrumors member for putting it in a much simpler form) but basically:
depends on whether you are on a 850 or a 1900-2100 band (the difference being the 1900-2100 band is impacted more when the antenna is blocked). IOS4 is not powering up the antenna fast and strong enough for when the antenna is blocked for those on 1900-2100 band. calls are being dropped and internet surfing comes to a complete halt. this explains why roughly half of users dont see this problem (seen from macrumors poll on front page where roughly half of users dont have this problem).
a firmware update will solve the issue.
did apple make a mistake? yes
they made a software mishap in an attempt to improve battery life.
funny thing is, I think Steve Jobs actually didnt realize this or know about it. He just figured the emailer was doing something wrong (holding it wrong).
if you have a 3GS (with iOS4)...hold the phone in your right hand...palm and all (just like everyone with iPhone 4 is saying they are having the problem when held in left hand).
you will notice you will lose all signal and cant surf the net etc. completely dead.
Same iPhone 4 issue occurs with 3GS.
Please explain to me how this can in any way be a iphone 4 hardware design failure.
Its not hardware.
Its software.
Just because people are posting youtube videos showing calls dropped and transmissions impacted, that actually doenst prove anything. Sure drops are called...you can tell that from seeing the bars collapse.
whats going on here?
well without getting too technical (and thanks to another macrumors member for putting it in a much simpler form) but basically:
depends on whether you are on a 850 or a 1900-2100 band (the difference being the 1900-2100 band is impacted more when the antenna is blocked). IOS4 is not powering up the antenna fast and strong enough for when the antenna is blocked for those on 1900-2100 band. calls are being dropped and internet surfing comes to a complete halt. this explains why roughly half of users dont see this problem (seen from macrumors poll on front page where roughly half of users dont have this problem).
a firmware update will solve the issue.
did apple make a mistake? yes
they made a software mishap in an attempt to improve battery life.
funny thing is, I think Steve Jobs actually didnt realize this or know about it. He just figured the emailer was doing something wrong (holding it wrong).
most apple store employees have no clue what is going on or what things are.
if I ever go into an apple store, I can bet I know more about the products than they do.
the "geniuses" know more about the guts of stuff, but its nothing you couldnt learn from just watching them for a few days. they just diagnosis stuff and if they cant find the problem they send the product back to apple. pretty simple.
dont forget, these are retail jobs. sales people receive little training as to how product guts actually work.
apple store employees also dont receive any direct messages from apple HQ or anything like that. I can go in there and tell them my theory of what is going on (software related) and if they can explain it easily they will probably tell that to everyone.
Hmm no. I've held that 3GS (with iOS4) in every part of both hands, wrapped my paws around it, held it at the corners, every which way I can think of and the signal and data download speeds are rock steady.
This is very strange....
At home I can reproduce this problem 100% of the time on both my phone and my wife's phone.
At work I can reproduce the problem 100% of the time.
Today I went to Best Buy which is not close to either my work or my home. One of the store employees asked me if I was having the problem. I responded yes and got it out to show him. I could NOT reproduce the problem inside Best Buy.
Why would that be?
At home I can reproduce this problem 100% of the time on both my phone and my wife's phone.
At work I can reproduce the problem 100% of the time.
Today I went to Best Buy which is not close to either my work or my home. One of the store employees asked me if I was having the problem. I responded yes and got it out to show him. I could NOT reproduce the problem inside Best Buy.
Why would that be?
sorry, i should have said you might have the problem. looks like its happening to half the people out there.
I snipped some out of the quote to save page space.
Problem with all of the above statements. After i boxed one of my iphone 4's to send back for full refund to at&t, they put my 3gs back on that number ,which is running ios4, and guess what?
i can put that 3gs running ios4 between my legs and squeeze to all hel, meaning it is covered enitrely by skin and speed test only drops to 650k ,
in free air or held in hand speed test averages 800
if i even hold the iphone 4 lightly in the palm of my hand(my second phone) speed test stops dead.
so if it is all software, why doesnt my 3gs running ios4 do it? You just stated it would!
Best Buy could have a microcell repeater installed in the store to ensure the phones they sell always work as they should. Proximity to a cell site and signal strength obviously have something to do with all of this since it's one big equation but, the sheer fact that the iPhone 4 is capable - mind you I'm saying it's capable since so many of us are experiencing the issue even when some people aren't at all - of losing signal and service so quickly is where all the hubbub is coming from.
If the store has a microcell repeater or just a 3G repeater set up (and I know that a lot of cell phone retailers have such devices installed) then it would alleviate pretty much all instances of this issue simply because of the signal strength and proximity.
Think of it this way: you couldn't "cook" something with your microwave oven if you opened the door and the food was 2 feet away, now could you? But put the food inside the oven and it gets bombarded with microwaves in all directions - cell phones operate on frequencies considered to be in the microwave range (for the most part) and would obviously have the same reactions.
Defective by design...
If the store has a microcell repeater or just a 3G repeater set up (and I know that a lot of cell phone retailers have such devices installed) then it would alleviate pretty much all instances of this issue simply because of the signal strength and proximity.
Think of it this way: you couldn't "cook" something with your microwave oven if you opened the door and the food was 2 feet away, now could you?
But put the food inside the oven and it gets bombarded with microwaves in all directions - cell phones operate on frequencies considered to be in the microwave range (for the most part) and would obviously have the same reactions.Defective by design...
iOrlando, have you seen the front page? Have you seen the story that shows the 3G running 2.0 display one bar when palmed? Did you see the story where several other cell phones display the same behavior? Your little 3GS test - it's the same thing. It's fairly common to all cell phones depending on location-specific cell signal.
The issue with skin contacting the the iPhone 4 near the seam is an entirely different phenomenon.
Now, try to touch the 3GS anywhere with a single fingertip and reproduce the issue. Won't happen.
If you can understand that, then you will realize this is not a software issue.
The issue with skin contacting the the iPhone 4 near the seam is an entirely different phenomenon.
Now, try to touch the 3GS anywhere with a single fingertip and reproduce the issue. Won't happen.
If you can understand that, then you will realize this is not a software issue.