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This is, IMO, very like Steve's personality.

I don't blame him. 70% marketshare and gaining... nice place to be. :D

KindredMAC said:
(Using my good old fashion Power Mac 6500/225 running OS 8.6 to post tonight until my iBook comes back)

Those machines with OS 8.x just seem to run forever, don't they? Great computers. Jobs should brag more about those, too. :D
 
I really don't see why people compare this exploit with something similair being possible with ITMS. The main difference is that with ITMS, you have paid for each and every song you distribute / rip. At 99c a shot, thats still pretty signifigant, you won't be downloading and distributing 10k songs on a whim.

But its free / close with Crapster, to do that. Just sign up, and start ripping. You could have many songs in just the free trial!

Of course, if you want MY honest opinion, anyone willing to "rip" off Crapster, would be better off just to go to his / her favorite file sharing program and just illegally download the music. Faster, easier.

I guess its "semi" legal to rip Crapster this way, but morally no diff.
 
Mitthrawnuruodo said:
Not very nice, if the angle referred here is true (didn't register for the Chichago Tribune, and definitly don't know the whole story). But, what the h***, I'd probably done the same... :D

If you need to register, go to www.bugmenot.com

Changed my life.
 
GFLPraxis said:
It's a real "Ha Ha" moment for Steve.
Napster may be being jerks with their advertising but Steve could always have been the bigger man.

But no :(

This is the most seriously uncool thing I've seen Steve Jobs do in the 18 months I've been a massive mac fan... (I mean I'd READ about him being an ass n' all, but he'd always been cool recently...)

Hob
 
Comeon.

Your a little late.

Its been 'known' for atleast a week.

Anyway the Napster thing is just a much larger scale of what you can do with iTunes and its anti-DRM programs.

Napster you can download Free For All with the Demo... So Infinite Songs + Free = Free infinite which is just like a bad pirated release.

(who wants poorly encoded music?)

:D
 
I can’t believe the number of brown noisers on this board. If this had been Napster’s exec ratting out a flaw in iTunes you guys would be calling for his head.
The fact is this is the type of antics of a kindergartener. Very mature Jobs. Very mature.
 
LimitedEdition said:
If people are getting the songs for nothing off Napster, they're not going to be buying from iTunes either. Perhaps that's why Steve's email.

It's pretty funny that Napster originated as a pirate P2P network, and now it is commercial and legit, and what is different? They are still giving people effectively free access to millions of songs.

EXACTLY RIGHT

I know guys at school who were on top of this right away. One guy was talking about it in the smoking area and was showing off how many mp3's he ripped using the Napster service, ON HIS iPOD!!
 
Mechcozmo said:
Those machines with OS 8.x just seem to run forever, don't they? Great computers. Jobs should brag more about those, too. :D

i am sorry but my lovely 8500 just left forever. poor it. poor me.
i suppose the price was equivalent to a G5 Dual 2.5 nowadays......
 
Yeah, old news. Why is there another thread on this?

Also, I still have not seen proof that Steve Jobs actually send this so-called email. Why do I doubt it? Because, according to my Excite email account, I send MYSELF a message about how to get "Vaigra" for cheap and I don't remember sending any such message...
 
Most of you must be new to the Mac platform, i.e., not having lived through the dark days of 94-98. As someone who made the trek with Apple through that time, I have to say that I'm thrilled speechless to see Apple taking shots at the competition every chance they get--especially when it's in regard to yet another market that didn't exist until Apple did it right.

Apple's history is rife with examples of Apple coming up with Great Ideas and sitting by passively while competitors and wannabes with all manner of business ethics (to put it politely) came along and robbed them blind. The Apple of the past has been like the flighty hippie/artist of the computer world. It's full of great ideas and peace and love and never cared who did what with those ideas because it had faith that its spirit would prevail. Bollocks! The new Apple plays dirty with the competition, gut-punches them if they look at it cross-eyed, trips them up at every turn, badmouths them whenever possible. The Apple that I see nowadays is a company that fights tooth and nail and I love that. It ain't pretty folks, but we'll never see another 1996 again.

Kudos to Steve for doing whatever it takes to protect the people working for Apple and their ideas. They deserve it.
 
i would say what steve has done there is slightly below the belt, but yet again i would probably beleive things go on like this all the time at the cutting edge of business. well how long will it be before napster do something in return?
 
i suppose if Napster didn't start this anti-ITMS+iPod campaign then steve wouldn't have been so quick to point out Napsters flaws. ho hum. blame Napster.

besides who's even sure that it was steve and not another apple employee? i hardly think that steve personally is working day and night to make a PB G5, and then burning out his fingers coding Tiger, 10.3.9 and Quicktime 7 and the rest. He's the CEO, other people do things for him.
 
Napster's Business model is flawed

There is an inherent, and quite glaring, flaw in the business of Napster to go. The pay per month system for this type of service is doomed to fail for two, hell three or four reasons.

1) Hackers are sneaky little shites. There will always be a way, within two or three days of any "security" update, to save the Napster songs to your computer. Most broadband users have connections fast enough to download an Mp3 encoded at 128k in about 15 seconds, assuming a decent pipe. Now I doubt that Napster's servers will supply ample bandwidth for too long, but that's neither here nor there. The fact is, if I were designing a scheme for streaming music to a trillion folks, I'd have a caching system, which would mean that the data were actually stored in memory, be it volatile or otherwise. Bottom line, robbing Napster blind will be pie for any hacker worth half his ass. Hell, I could probably code a Cocoa app in about fifteen minutes that stored all network traffic from a certain port to my hard drive. I can assure everyone that napster doesn't have close to the pockets that Apple does, and if Apple's DRM can be broken, short of dispatching the federalis do a misusers house, Napster will be able to do squat to discourage illegal copying.

2) Napster's model doesn't scale well at all. If Napster is as popular as they would like, they will drive themselves out of business. Unlike a popular website, Napster can't just mirror to somewhere else. Well, I suppose they could, if that kind soul were willing tt store 4-6 terabytes of files. And if some of you haven't noticed, bandwidth becomes exponentially more expensive when you start to reach the levels that would be required to stream music to lots off folks constantly.

3) We all want to OWN the music that we buy. I know that some of you Stalin worshipping economists out there wish that we could rent everything, and instead of paying for things in cash, I should be able to send napster a flagon of yak milk as payment. But as for myself, and I think I speak for just about everyone here, if I can't take it with me, what good is it, eh?

4) The fact still remains that you can hardly break even selling music online. What makes the online music business so profitable for Apple is the iPod. So until the RIAA gets its head out of its ass, and charges less of every song sold, the eonline music business will be the domain of those who have a little something to show for their efforts, not those that are confined to the digital domain.

Sorry Nappy-pooh, but you're spinning you're wheels, and soon enough, you'll run out of money, an piss off a lot of people who can't listen to tunes that they think they paid for because you went out of business. Goodbye music biz, hello class-action lawsuit.

Clay Garland,
Vehement defender of Apple
 
I hope Jobs tips Windows users about Windows security flaws. :rolleyes:
I am sure the record labels know about this flaw. This email may not even exist or it could have been faked by a hardcore Mac or Linux user.
 
Napster threw the first stone, "mature" or not, it's business and he's protecting Apple's intrests for once, not just letting people stomp all over Apple.

So good job Jobs.
 
I love iTMS, so I haven't even looked at the new Napster. I suspected it was as non-user friendly and worthless as any other music store. But I am curious as to how people are ripping these "protected" songs? Does anyone know exactly how they are doing it? All I want to know is the basic idea behind it - no specifics please. I don't want to try it, I prefer paying artists for their work, but I am curious.
 
ASP272 said:
I love iTMS, so I haven't even looked at the new Napster. I suspected it was as non-user friendly and worthless as any other music store. But I am curious as to how people are ripping these "protected" songs? Does anyone know exactly how they are doing it? All I want to know is the basic idea behind it - no specifics please. I don't want to try it, I prefer paying artists for their work, but I am curious.

I tried looking at this once, apparently, you download all the sogns you want, BUT you have to keep paying the 15$ a month, or else all the music you downloaded is useless. If you want to burn the music to a CD, it costs 99 Cents per track, and you have to resync the music on the Players every so often.
 
As for ripping songs

Napsters application stores the musical data on your hard drive. And a subscription service phones home so to speak, to make sure that you're authorized to play the tracks. Some of the things that I posted earlier are hypothetical in nature and it's easy to tell which ones. I didn't want to have a post rife with, "So let's assume for a second that. . ." Once the data is on your HD, there is DRM encoding, Usually at the beginning of a file where a normal Mp# player would begin a read, that makes the file look like some fool has taken an executable and added the *.mp3 extension, and the file will not play. Napster's app, however, has the ability to ignore this data once the user is verified. Removing DRM is often as simple as extracting all "non-mp3" data from a file. I have seen all manner of the beast, from hacks that rip out everthing except audio data, to some more elegant ones that leave Meta Data intact. So there you go, hope that answers your question vaguely enough so as not to send you down the path of evil.
 
Having read the article in the tribune. . .

Napster claims, as a retort to "Apple's" e-mail, that instead of ripping files en-masse, you must take the audio data from the napster stream and encode it as unprotected Mp3 on the fly. This is bantha poodoo. Yes, there are applications that work in the aforementioned way, but they are antiquities. If I can get it working soon enough, I'll post a link to an app that diverts streaming Mp3 data, ala internet radio into a file on the hard disk. That alone should prove that what napster is suggesting is ludicrous. I am certain that if the napster files are stored on the users hard drive in any accessible form, that there is, or will be very shortly, an app that defangs the DRM straightaway.
 
Pipian said:
I tried looking at this once, apparently, you download all the sogns you want, BUT you have to keep paying the 15$ a month, or else all the music you downloaded is useless. If you want to burn the music to a CD, it costs 99 Cents per track, and you have to resync the music on the Players every so often.

Heh, there's no way I would pay someone $15 a month to rent music... and then have to pay more to burn it to a CD. :rolleyes:

Of course, I don't really use the iTMS either. If I really like a band/artist, I'll buy the CD - I'd much rather have the hard copy to do whatever I want with.
 
My own personal feasability study.

I am going to take a quick survey. I know we all like the feel of a new pair of socks, or any undergarment for that matter, but let's stick to the relatively puritan sock at the moment. So why don't I start an internet service whereby we rent socks online, and for an arbitrary fee, I'll send you all the new socks you can wear so long as you pay that fee. However, if you stop payment, the socks will become electrically charged and you will be forced to take them off or suffer a constant electric shock. You guys think that you would be interested? I mean, I love new socks, you love new socks, over time, I think you could save yourself some valuable coin if you just rented socks.
 
Oh man Jobs sounds really, really, really annoying in this instance. I hated kids who ratted, and this is no different than that.

Jobs must've gotten his ass kicked in school a lot.
 
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