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Jobs Tips Execs About Napster Security Flaw
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Avicdar said:
I Disagree. EVERYONE keeps badmouthing Apple. Real tries to hack the iPods DRM, Gates says Apple doesn't offer choice, Napster says only an idiot would own an iPod. Balmer calls iPod owners thieves. "iPod mini's will fail" etc. Apple chooses not to respond to all of this (and more) but when they point out a factual piece of information to their business partners (the same people who provide content to the iTunes Music Store) they are now rats? Give me a break.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see this as a move Microsoft might do?
"Uh, yeah, RIAA? iTunes gave out a, uh, free song. You should, uh, you know, shut them down... uh, we don't offer free songs, uh, thanks, uh, Mr. Gates"
I wish my mom told my sister that - she TOLD on me for calling her a tattle tale - she is REALLY annoying.
"Uh, yeah, RIAA? iTunes gave out a, uh, free song. You should, uh, you know, shut them down... uh, we don't offer free songs, uh, thanks, uh, Mr. Gates"
stubeeef said:
I wish my mom told my sister that - she TOLD on me for calling her a tattle tale - she is REALLY annoying.
Steamboatwillie said:
It was a company called Real. I sometimes get those 2 companies confused when it comes to Music Stores. I was surprised of the backlash of this email in here of all places.
BornAgainMac said:
My bad, sometimes I type before thinking when miffed! I do, however, still think my point is valid.
first of all the whole Full iPod =$10,000 is BULL! do they not realize that songs only cost $.99 so there for it will be less than 10,000 dollars. Secondly from a man that was caught by the government with illegal songs and software, i have hung up my illegal downloading days (cuz if i get caught again i go to jail and pay mucho mucho money ). anywho, iTunes = good, napster = bad. no more to talk about. also Job's deserves to keep his fists up now and fight back. napster, what can i say. how do they even keep in business?? they must be like a billion dollars in debt. whatever, those idiots just need to die.
). anywho, iTunes = good, napster = bad. no more to talk about. also Job's deserves to keep his fists up now and fight back. napster, what can i say. how do they even keep in business?? they must be like a billion dollars in debt. whatever, those idiots just need to die.
On the subject of being caught. . .
Grab a bookon social engineering guys, it will go a long way. Some people are born with an innate skill to change the minds of people and bend others' will to get their way. Apparently I was one fo those people, b/c i worked my way thru college as a rather successful car salesman. At any rate. Getting "caught" is not the end of the world. I was accused of downloading "Next Friday" by, I think it was, Universal studios, I may be wrong on that account. My internet provider shut down my connection. I called them and was given the cookie-cutter response. You have to realize that the government/RIAA/MPAA don't get anything without the cooperation of your internet provider. Ironically enough, I had never downloaded, or intended to download "Next Friday." I had, however, downloaded movies in the past, and was no less guilty. Through my skills of negotiation, and a vast knowledge of technical terms and internet protocols and etc, I was able to not only make the ISP turn back on my connection, but able to make them rid themselves of any records of such activity. Social engineering: Live it.
Grab a bookon social engineering guys, it will go a long way. Some people are born with an innate skill to change the minds of people and bend others' will to get their way. Apparently I was one fo those people, b/c i worked my way thru college as a rather successful car salesman. At any rate. Getting "caught" is not the end of the world. I was accused of downloading "Next Friday" by, I think it was, Universal studios, I may be wrong on that account. My internet provider shut down my connection. I called them and was given the cookie-cutter response. You have to realize that the government/RIAA/MPAA don't get anything without the cooperation of your internet provider. Ironically enough, I had never downloaded, or intended to download "Next Friday." I had, however, downloaded movies in the past, and was no less guilty. Through my skills of negotiation, and a vast knowledge of technical terms and internet protocols and etc, I was able to not only make the ISP turn back on my connection, but able to make them rid themselves of any records of such activity. Social engineering: Live it.
BornAgainMac said:
yeah, it was Real, but you have to admit, sometimes it's hard to distinguish btw two piles of poop...
Well, Napster got "down and dirty" first by releasing that ad against iTunes. Still kind of sleazy, and I'm sure the record exec's would have found out about this "security flaw" either way. Oh well.
Fishes,
narco.
Fishes,
narco.
If this email actually was sent then I think all of you that are calling Steve a rat are missing the point, the iTunes FairPlay DRM is all round a good system, which does have a few flaws but most people are fairly happy with it's implementation with the only big problem I've heard of is not being able to easily integrate an iTunes song with an exported iPhoto slideshow.
That means that people are happy with it and there is no way to abuse the system en-masse as there is no subscription service making it jut as "hard" for people to remove the DRM as it is to rip a CD so it is a fairly happy compromise.
However along comes Napster with a subscription model and with an advertising campaign smearing the iTunes way of purchasing music. Steve is quite entitled to get his back up over such a move and as other users have pointed out you can download all the songs you want from Napster and currently you can do that for free for 14 days.
So even though removing the DRM is still a pain there is no upfront cost (or very little once the trial is discontinued) to obtain the songs in the first place so that is one very big loss of revenue for someone just for that first person and the type of person liely to do that is also likely to share them via their favourite P2P program straight away making matters worse.
Where the type of person to remove the DRM from an iTunes song is likely to only do it for personal use anyway like being able to use it in an iPhoto Slideshow (even though the legalities of that are iffy we aren't talking about a big loss of revenue).
So all Steve is doing is pointing out a flaw in one of his competitor's business model to help the Reocrd companies see that the iTunes model is still the most viable.
That means that people are happy with it and there is no way to abuse the system en-masse as there is no subscription service making it jut as "hard" for people to remove the DRM as it is to rip a CD so it is a fairly happy compromise.
However along comes Napster with a subscription model and with an advertising campaign smearing the iTunes way of purchasing music. Steve is quite entitled to get his back up over such a move and as other users have pointed out you can download all the songs you want from Napster and currently you can do that for free for 14 days.
So even though removing the DRM is still a pain there is no upfront cost (or very little once the trial is discontinued) to obtain the songs in the first place so that is one very big loss of revenue for someone just for that first person and the type of person liely to do that is also likely to share them via their favourite P2P program straight away making matters worse.
Where the type of person to remove the DRM from an iTunes song is likely to only do it for personal use anyway like being able to use it in an iPhoto Slideshow (even though the legalities of that are iffy we aren't talking about a big loss of revenue).
So all Steve is doing is pointing out a flaw in one of his competitor's business model to help the Reocrd companies see that the iTunes model is still the most viable.
Jobs always has been a jerk.
Apple is a great company and Jobs has been very instrumental in their success.
But Steve Jobs has always been a jerk. Even going back to the early days when Jobs lied to Steve Wozniak about the first Apple contract and cheated Woz out of part of the contract money.
What a great way to treat your friend and partner who single handed designed the first system that Apple sold!
Employees have always ranted about what an egomaniac he is and how he is extremely moody.
Woz was the heart of Apple. Jobs is the *******.
Apple is a great company and Jobs has been very instrumental in their success.
But Steve Jobs has always been a jerk. Even going back to the early days when Jobs lied to Steve Wozniak about the first Apple contract and cheated Woz out of part of the contract money.
What a great way to treat your friend and partner who single handed designed the first system that Apple sold!
Employees have always ranted about what an egomaniac he is and how he is extremely moody.
Woz was the heart of Apple. Jobs is the *******.
The big thing abouth this is getting it leaked to the press. Now you have an article in a major newspaper that tells you that you can steal music from Napster. While this might have been common knowledge amoung the tech crowd, average users probably didn't know. How many more people are going to try this out? Will it be enough where the RIAA starts to reconsider subscription based systems?
KindredMAC said:
YES STOMP ON NAPSTERS THROAT DONT LET THAT PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A MUSIC SERVICE BREATHE!! KILL THEM STEVE, KILL THEM DEAD!!!!
APPLE REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!
inkswamp said:
this is a competition remember, there are ways to get goals and though not everyone will like them or agree with how they were scored, they were scored nonetheless. Steve is not worried about how he scores his goals, hes is concerning himself with winning the current game at hand and right now the score is convincingly in apples favor over napster.
APPLE REVOLUTION!!!!!!!
MacNut said:
In this case you are right. Apple has been blasted by Gorog for ages, with his puerile cattiness and SJ has remained silent. This is NOT snitching: every company I have ever dealt with tells you about their competitors flaws. Those of you going on about "bad form" etc have obviously never run a business. In fact, SJ was telling the truth and Gorog's reply, as always, was full of it... the iTunes exploit to record streaming data is ???????
In fact, the only "exploit" is to record to disc and then re-rip and send it back onto the Net and that's no different than what happens to CDs. Gorog could at least get his facts straight, but then, THAT wouldn't be Gorog, now, would it?
inkswamp said:
[...sniff...] inkswamp, you almost brought a tear to my eye. i've taken a lot of grief over the past 15 years for working on Macs (and playing w/ them at stores even before that), so it fills me w/ joy to see SO MUCH POSITIVE PRESS about Apple these days!
reading Mac sites a few years ago were pretty glum and lacking any real content (mostly just "is Apple going to die" or "M$ really sucks" kind of stuff). now i don't go a day w/o seeing some great review or new use of iPods, how stable & virus-free OSX is or that Apple's stock is going crazy. it's great. sure there are things they need to get their $#!+ together on (faster powerbooks, faster G5 chips, etc), but they're riding high right now.
whether or not you like all the attention the iPod is receiving over Macs & OSX, that revenue can only HELP the software/hardware sides. sure, Steve is selling ear-candy to the masses, but he's funding great stuff for us down the road...
TMay said:
If someone were smart, they'd have outsourced this to India, had an entire catalog inside of a couple days and have a new service dropped on a tax-sheltery type of island, go live there and sell advertising space for stuff that college students do pay money for. Like beer.
Hey Budweiser, give me a couple grand and this idea can be all yours!!
You go, Steve!!!!!!
While Napster exists - before it declares bankruptcy, it is an amazing opportunity/security hole, for those interested, for downloading permanent copies of songs for essentially free.
DO THE MATH:
With Napster, ONE Windows PC, broadband and free software, it is possible to download and record into permanent, unprotected MP3 format, ALL 1,000,000 songs in Napster's collection for $45, in less than 90 days, automatically. That is a SHOCKING FACT!
All it takes are free utilities such as Winamp, Output Stacker, and others and instructions freely available on the internet. The software used are essentially versions of StreamRipper - an open source program that records internet radio station streams. Once set up, they can download and convert songs to unprotected MP3 format. Interestingly, you can run as many copies of WinAmp on your PC as your CPU will support. One person described online, for example, was able to run 32 simultaneous copies of WinAmp on his Athlon PC. Each copy of WinAmp you run on your computer can download Napster files in parallel with others. This means you can download 32 hours worth of music each hour. Thus, on Napster, you can record up to 10,752 hours of music just within the free 14 day period. This is equivalent to about 161,280 songs (assuming 4 minutes a song). This translates to 11,520 songs a day that you can record on your computer when using 32 simultaneous streams. All you need then is 87 days to download all 1,000,000 songs in Napsters collection and convert them to all to permanent DRM-less unprotected MP3s using ONE PC.
DO THE MATH!!!
Napster = 1,000,000 permanent, DRM-less songs for $45.
This makes it very tempting to even purchase a dreaded TOP-OF-THE LINE DELL PC (since Napster doesn't work on a Mac) and broadband, in order to subscribe 3 months for Napster.
Of course, the primary ones who hurt are the artists and record companies. When you streamrip Napster, you are paying 0.0045 cents per song when you rip using 32 simultaneous streams. Assuming 20 songs per album, this is equivalent to paying 9/100ths of a cent per album.
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD TAKE STEVE'S LETTER SERIOUSLY!!!!
At 9/100ths of a cent PER ALBUM, I doubt record companies, not to mention artists, will make much from Napster. For a record company, this is equivalent to grossing $900 on a platinum-selling album. That's not enough to pay for a single day in a good room at the Four Season's Hotel.
You CANNOT rip iTunes songs as easily because you have to FIRST PAY for them. (A good "duh" should be given to the Napster executive who said otherwise.)
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD DROP THE SUBSCRIPTION MODEL AS EPITOMIZED BY NAPSTER BECAUSE IT GIVES THEIR PRODUCT AWAY FOR ESSENTIALLY FREE!
DO THE MATH: With Napster, you can download all 1,000,000 songs and convert them to unprotected MP3s or other formats for only $45, in less than 90 days, AUTOMATICALLY using a fast PC, broadband, and freely available software.
RECORD COMPANIES: BE AFRAID. BE VERY AFRAID.
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD STRONGLYCONSIDER SHUTTING NAPSTER AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTION MODELS DOWN BECAUSE THIS SECURITY HOLE CANNOT BE CLOSED. Napster, itself, said that it's DRM security is not broken. It is not broken. It is still intact. But an work-around has been made which cannot be stopped or protected against. It is a problem inherent in the subscription model.
ITUNES HAS THE BEST MODEL FOR SELLING MUSIC ONLINE SINCE IT INSURES ARTISTS AND RECORD COMPANIES GET PAID.
While Napster exists - before it declares bankruptcy, it is an amazing opportunity/security hole, for those interested, for downloading permanent copies of songs for essentially free.
DO THE MATH:
With Napster, ONE Windows PC, broadband and free software, it is possible to download and record into permanent, unprotected MP3 format, ALL 1,000,000 songs in Napster's collection for $45, in less than 90 days, automatically. That is a SHOCKING FACT!
All it takes are free utilities such as Winamp, Output Stacker, and others and instructions freely available on the internet. The software used are essentially versions of StreamRipper - an open source program that records internet radio station streams. Once set up, they can download and convert songs to unprotected MP3 format. Interestingly, you can run as many copies of WinAmp on your PC as your CPU will support. One person described online, for example, was able to run 32 simultaneous copies of WinAmp on his Athlon PC. Each copy of WinAmp you run on your computer can download Napster files in parallel with others. This means you can download 32 hours worth of music each hour. Thus, on Napster, you can record up to 10,752 hours of music just within the free 14 day period. This is equivalent to about 161,280 songs (assuming 4 minutes a song). This translates to 11,520 songs a day that you can record on your computer when using 32 simultaneous streams. All you need then is 87 days to download all 1,000,000 songs in Napsters collection and convert them to all to permanent DRM-less unprotected MP3s using ONE PC.
DO THE MATH!!!
Napster = 1,000,000 permanent, DRM-less songs for $45.
This makes it very tempting to even purchase a dreaded TOP-OF-THE LINE DELL PC (since Napster doesn't work on a Mac) and broadband, in order to subscribe 3 months for Napster.
Of course, the primary ones who hurt are the artists and record companies. When you streamrip Napster, you are paying 0.0045 cents per song when you rip using 32 simultaneous streams. Assuming 20 songs per album, this is equivalent to paying 9/100ths of a cent per album.
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD TAKE STEVE'S LETTER SERIOUSLY!!!!
At 9/100ths of a cent PER ALBUM, I doubt record companies, not to mention artists, will make much from Napster. For a record company, this is equivalent to grossing $900 on a platinum-selling album. That's not enough to pay for a single day in a good room at the Four Season's Hotel.
You CANNOT rip iTunes songs as easily because you have to FIRST PAY for them. (A good "duh" should be given to the Napster executive who said otherwise.)
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD DROP THE SUBSCRIPTION MODEL AS EPITOMIZED BY NAPSTER BECAUSE IT GIVES THEIR PRODUCT AWAY FOR ESSENTIALLY FREE!
DO THE MATH: With Napster, you can download all 1,000,000 songs and convert them to unprotected MP3s or other formats for only $45, in less than 90 days, AUTOMATICALLY using a fast PC, broadband, and freely available software.
RECORD COMPANIES: BE AFRAID. BE VERY AFRAID.
RECORD COMPANIES SHOULD STRONGLYCONSIDER SHUTTING NAPSTER AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTION MODELS DOWN BECAUSE THIS SECURITY HOLE CANNOT BE CLOSED. Napster, itself, said that it's DRM security is not broken. It is not broken. It is still intact. But an work-around has been made which cannot be stopped or protected against. It is a problem inherent in the subscription model.
ITUNES HAS THE BEST MODEL FOR SELLING MUSIC ONLINE SINCE IT INSURES ARTISTS AND RECORD COMPANIES GET PAID.
artifex said:
The NIV has an easier to read style... (although I'm more of an NKJV guy myself)
But yeah... that's what I was thinking when I read wdlove's note...