Joe Rogan - Macs Have the Worst Keyboards

[pshufd]

Agreed, though, I find I annoy the **** out of my wife if I use the 3 I have. At my old apartment, I actually had people banging on the wall when I was pounding away on my mechanical keyboard. That and now that my fingers are so used to the MBP 2017's keyboard, I find typing on a mechanical really tiring. I used to be able to type on that thing all day.

Typing on the 2017 MBP takes a lot of effort to get used to. You have to type on it very differently than you would a normal keyboard. Once you get used to it, takes a lot less effort and ... personally, I can really fly on it.

I play tennis and workout with barbells so strength and fatigue aren't real issues. Playing piano would be a good way to keep the fingers strong too.

 

[SDColorado]

A MBP's touchpad and screen with a Lenovo X1 Carbon's keyboard? I'd buy that right now.

Me too! And I don't care if it is Lenovo or Apple that delivers it first, I am still buying it

 

[Queen6]

Apple's has had an inordinate amount of time to remidy the failure of the Butterfly Keyboard. Yet Apple has opted to foist corporate hubris ever more, rather than apply a level of common sense.

This is what is demolishing the reputation., once trust is broken it's never easily made. Professionally I now think the Mac is just a joke. So much potential thrown away...

Q-6

 

[th0masp]

Not sure if they have the worst keyboards now but they sure went way downhill for me. Comparing my 2011 in the store to a 2016 was an eye opener and killed any desire to ... downgrade.

Considering the whole package - current pricing levels, keyboard and T2 issues, screengate, lack of magsafe and so on I fully expect my next notebook to be a different brand. If I truly needed a new laptop right now, the MBP would not even be among the contestants anymore. Well, perhaps the 2015 model might still make the shortlist.

 

[pshufd]

Apple's has had an inordinate amount of time to remidy the failure of the Butterfly Keyboard. Yet Apple has opted to foist corporate hubris ever more, rather than apply a level of common sense.

This is what is demolishing the reputation., once trust is broken it's never easily made. Professionally I now think the Mac is just a joke. So much potential thrown away...

Q-6

The OS is still a big draw. They will fix this eventually. Until then, just go 2014 or 2015 or get an iMac or bring along an external keyboard. I'm just going a long with 2014/2015 (I'm shopping for another 2015) for now. If they don't fix it by 2022 (and I believe that they will fix it before then), then I would consider going to the iMac, or, by then, a Mac Pro.

 

[Queen6]

The OS is still a big draw. They will fix this eventually. Until then, just go 2014 or 2015 or get an iMac or bring along an external keyboard. I'm just going a long with 2014/2015 (I'm shopping for another 2015) for now. If they don't fix it by 2022 (and I believe that they will fix it before then), then I would consider going to the iMac, or, by then, a Mac Pro.

Apple has had over three years to fix the ButterBall Keyboard iMac Pro's don't work with air travel, not should I for one iota expect to use an external keyboard with an alleged professional grade notebook, absolutely pathetic

I'm sick and tired of Apple's excuses, hence why Apple has not seen any revenue from me personally or professionally since 2015. In business takes a lot more than slick marketing and BS to make a sale...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Apple has had over three years to fix the ButterBall Keyboard iMac Pro's don't work with air travel, not should I for one iota expect to use an external keyboard with an alleged professional grade notebook, pathetic

I'm sick and tired of Apple's excuses, hence why Apple has not seen any revenue from me personally or professionally since 2015. In business takes a lot more than slick marketing and BS to make a sale...

Q-6

Mac sales were over $5 billion in Q1 so there are a lot of people still buying them. I imagine the 2019 iMac refresh will mean a lot of sales in Q2 as well.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I like my 2017 MBP's keyboard and it has been flawless for the past year.

Does that count or do we still believe that all of them are broken and I'm not entitled to my opinion?

 

[pshufd]

I like my 2017 MBP's keyboard and it has been flawless for the past year.

Does that count or do we still believe that all of them are broken and I'm not entitled to my opinion?

I don't know anyone who is saying that they are all broken.

But there are enough people saying that there are problems, including Apple, so that people have some reluctance to spend $4,000 on a machine where there's a decent chance that they have a problem. Apple could easily fix this by saying that they will repair keyboard problems for the next ten years on these machines. That would show that they have statistical confidence that this isn't a problem.

 

[Queen6]

Mac sales were over $5 billion in Q1 so there are a lot of people still buying them. I imagine the 2019 iMac refresh will mean a lot of sales in Q2 as well.

Am I to be impressed? Apple's success is in selling Apple to the uninformed. Real world runs on other operating systems that are far more versatile, more secure. One should be careful of bragging about a companies financial performance/prowess, especially Apple as that gross profit margin is coming directly out your pocket...

Never has less equalled more; reduced performance, reduced reliability, reduced production cost, increased margins. As my late father would say "Fools and their money" Believe or not I fully expected the Mac to be the pinacol of the professional computing experience, how wrong was I.

Apple sold out, disappointingly so as it was once truly Different...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Am I to be impressed? Apple's success is in selling Apple to the uninformed. Real world runs on other operating systems that are far more versatile, more secure. One should be careful of bragging about a companies financial performance/prowess, especially Apple as that gross profit margin is coming directly out your pocket...

Never has less equalled more; reduced performance, reduced reliability, reduced production cost, increased margins. As my late father would say "Fools and their money" Believe or not I fully expected the Mac to be the pinacol of the professional computing experience, how wrong was I...

Q-6

I don't think that anyone cares if you're impressed. As a shareholder, I would hope that they would fix the keyboard and do better. But it's pretty clear that sales are holding up, in dollar volume.

 

[Queen6]

I don't think that anyone cares if you're impressed. As a shareholder, I would hope that they would fix the keyboard and do better. But it's pretty clear that sales are holding up, in dollar volume.

As a shareholder I've made better money else where...

As for Apple it designs consumer grade product that it want's to flood the market with at an elevated price point. Today it needs to try far harder and push it's services. Selling to those that buy into the hype is one thing, selling to professional users entirely another, as tolerance to BS is generally very less..

"Fools and their money" wear it how you will, been there myself, and as shareholder of Apple why are you not doing more to stop such nonsense, after all you have a say?

Q-6

 

[Falhófnir]

Quite honestly they've now more or less said they've messed up big time; to issue a statement on it at all tells you that much. Additionally most big tech reviewers have covered the KB issues so I think this is starting to snowball to the point Apple are likely to want to ditch the butterfly keyboard anyway. Also, just the fact they've gone from universally praised to divisive isn't usually something you want with something as key as the keyboard So at this point, to the thread title, I think Tywin says it best:

 

[Keebler]

I'm ok with my Macbook keyboard, but the straight keyboard for the standalone Macs is good BUT.......
as environmentally leading as they may be, they try to lead the techie world so where are the ergonomically correct keyboards?

It's always been curious that they don't have one like the Microsoft offerings. No one's wrists are supposed to be as stupidly straight.

Has it stopped me from buying their products? No. But I've always wondered lol

 

[BigMcGuire]

As a shareholder I've made better money else where...

As for Apple it designs consumer grade product that it want's to flood the market with at an elevated price point. Today it needs to try far harder and push it's services. Selling to those that buy into the hype is one thing, selling to professional users entirely another, as tolerance to BS is generally very less..

"Fools and their money" wear it how you will, been there myself, and as shareholder of Apple why are you not doing more to stop such nonsense, after all you have a say?

Q-6

I look forward to the day that I have $ for investing. Hopefully in the next 10 years.

I don't know anyone who is saying that they are all broken.

But there are enough people saying that there are problems, including Apple, so that people have some reluctance to spend $4,000 on a machine where there's a decent chance that they have a problem. Apple could easily fix this by saying that they will repair keyboard problems for the next ten years on these machines. That would show that they have statistical confidence that this isn't a problem.

I agree. I was happy to see that my laptop is covered for 4 years. I paid AppleCare+ on it for the 2-3? I forget. So that's nice. But 10 would be really appreciated, at least 6. I was planning on keeping it for 6 years. (My 2017 MBP). That said, I don't know of any other manufacturer that stands behind their product like this. But, I know, I know, replacing the keyboard on other laptops isn't all that hard (I've done it). I've even put cheap Ebay keyboards into my Dell Laptops when they broke.
[doublepost=1556818251][/doublepost]

I'm ok with my Macbook keyboard, but the straight keyboard for the standalone Macs is good BUT.......
as environmentally leading as they may be, they try to lead the techie world so where are the ergonomically correct keyboards?

It's always been curious that they don't have one like the Microsoft offerings. No one's wrists are supposed to be as stupidly straight.

Has it stopped me from buying their products? No. But I've always wondered lol

I'm a huge fan of those Microsoft curved keyboards. I have two of them in my possession now. The 5050 and the ... the... uh... well it's got a curve too.

 

[pshufd]

As a shareholder I've made better money else where...

As for Apple it designs consumer grade product that it want's to flood the market with at an elevated price point. Today it needs to try far harder and push it's services. Selling to those that buy into the hype is one thing, selling to professional users entirely another, as tolerance to BS is generally very less..

"Fools and their money" wear it how you will, been there myself, and as shareholder of Apple why are you not doing more to stop such nonsense, after all you have a say?

Q-6

Apple has been a safe bet. There's more alpha in a lot of other places for sure. But I've found that other places require more work.
[doublepost=1556818348][/doublepost]

I agree. I was happy to see that my laptop is covered for 4 years. I paid AppleCare+ on it for the 2-3? I forget. So that's nice. But 10 would be really appreciated, at least 6. I was planning on keeping it for 6 years. (My 2017 MBP). That said, I don't know of any other manufacturer that stands behind their product like this. But, I know, I know, replacing the keyboard on other laptops isn't all that hard (I've done it). I've even put cheap Ebay keyboards into my Dell Laptops when they broke.

I got ten years out of my 2008 MBP. I'm hoping for 10 out of my 2014 and 2015 models. Already halfway on the 2014. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

 

[petvas]

I understand that many people have strong feelings against the butterfly keyboard. I am using a MacBook Pro 2018 since March and so far my experience has been positive. I don't mind the low travel, actually I like it. I cannot say anything about its reliability, but it seems from the many reports that it has a much lower reliability than the old keyboard. This is definitely unacceptable, and Apple should resolve this asap. I don't know if they will bring another generation of a butterfly keyboard or if they will redesign the keyboard again, but whatever they do, they better make it as reliable, as the old gen keyboards.
As far as myself concerns, if my MacBook keyboard proves to be reliable, then I will be happy. As I wrote before, I like the low travel and while I found it awkward at first, I got used to now and I type fast and with almost no mistakes, but at least as good as on a traditional keyboard.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Apple has been a safe bet. There's more alpha in a lot of other places for sure. But I've found that other places require more work.
[doublepost=1556818348][/doublepost]

I got ten years out of my 2008 MBP. I'm hoping for 10 out of my 2014 and 2015 models. Already halfway on the 2014. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

I had a Dell Latitude D830 that lasted me 6 years. That thing was a 10 pound tank with its external media bay battery. I broke 3? keyboards on that thing - had to replace them with ebay dell part clones (which also broke). lol.

Cool, I may revise my 6 year goal to 10 for my 2017. This is my first MBP. My 2015 MBA was a champ for 3 years (shouldn't have traded it in for the MBP).

 

[maflynn]

and Apple should resolve this asap.

We are three generations into the butterfly keyboard, I don't think apple moving on this with an ASAP attitude. Dollars to donuts, we'll see the butterfly keyboard on the 2019 MBP. I truly hope that's not the case but my gut feeling is that's will be on the next MBP.

Only when it hurts apple in the wallet, will they change imo. While their income from Macs is down, its not down so much that we can say that people are fleeing the platform in huge numbers. Apple isn't stupid, and they've done their own cost/benefit analysis, if they're making an acceptable profit off the MBP line there's little reason in their eyes to change.

 

[Queen6]

I look forward to the day that I have $ for investing. Hopefully in the next 10 years.

Learn, push hard, deliver, absolutely no failures. I only work months 6 a year at very best, life's for the living...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

We are three generations into the butterfly keyboard, I don't think apple moving on this with an ASAP attitude. Dollars to donuts, we'll see the butterfly keyboard on the 2019 MBP. I truly hope that's not the case but my gut feeling is that's will be on the next MBP.

Only when it hurts apple in the wallet, will they change imo. While their income from Macs is down, its not down so much that we can say that people are fleeing the platform in huge numbers. Apple isn't stupid, and they've done their own cost/benefit analysis, if they're making an acceptable profit off the MBP line there's little reason in their eyes to change.

There's a Reddit article which puts forth the idea that Apple doesn't know what is causing this problem. It's near the top of the MBP threads.

 

[Queen6]

We are three generations into the butterfly keyboard, I don't think apple moving on this with an ASAP attitude. Dollars to donuts, we'll see the butterfly keyboard on the 2019 MBP. I truly hope that's not the case but my gut feeling is that's will be on the next MBP.

Only when it hurts apple in the wallet, will they change imo. While their income from Macs is down, its not down so much that we can say that people are fleeing the platform in huge numbers. Apple isn't stupid, and they've done their own cost/benefit analysis, if they're making an acceptable profit off the MBP line there's little reason in their eyes to change.

Apple only cares about the revenue, in the process it has killed the Mac as a Pro product. My own observations; it's an exodus as no one is remotely interested in consumer grade hardware with known hardware issues.

Apple's execs should be fully ashamed at the sorry state of the Mac, it's just a joke now...

Q-6
[doublepost=1556820949][/doublepost]

There's a Reddit article which puts forth the idea that Apple doesn't know what is causing this problem. It's near the top of the MBP threads.

Seriously, if so then Apple is clearly and obviously clueless about it's own designs I work with material scientists, mechanical & electronic engineers, as a rule we fully understand the limitations of the hardware.

Currently Apple notebooks are fabulous with a good expresso, tasked with serious workloads a ****ing joke. Reap what you sow...

Q-6

 

[petvas]

We are three generations into the butterfly keyboard, I don't think apple moving on this with an ASAP attitude. Dollars to donuts, we'll see the butterfly keyboard on the 2019 MBP. I truly hope that's not the case but my gut feeling is that's will be on the next MBP.

Only when it hurts apple in the wallet, will they change imo. While their income from Macs is down, its not down so much that we can say that people are fleeing the platform in huge numbers. Apple isn't stupid, and they've done their own cost/benefit analysis, if they're making an acceptable profit off the MBP line there's little reason in their eyes to change.

I just listened to the latest Podcast of John Gruber and he said that he (almost) knows that Apple is working on a new keyboard, but he doesn’t know if it is coming this year. Apparently this new keyboard will have more travel than the butterfly one. Gruber didn’t say though if this new keyboard would be a fourth generation butterfly keyboard, or something completely new. I guess we will see.
I don’t think that Apple doesn’t care, I just think that they though to have solved almost all issues with the 2018 version and underestimated the bad publicity.
I would really like to hear what Phil Schiller has to say at WWDC this June. It will really be interesting.

 

[pshufd]

I had a look at 2016 MacBook Pro 15 models and the prices are about the same as the 2015 models. There aren't enough 2017 and 2018 models in my local area to make a determination on them. Maybe people heard or feel that it's too early to sell them.

 

[Queen6]

Apple has been a safe bet. There's more alpha in a lot of other places for sure. But I've found that other places require more work.
[doublepost=1556818348][/doublepost]

I got ten years out of my 2008 MBP. I'm hoping for 10 out of my 2014 and 2015 models. Already halfway on the 2014. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

Apple used to be a safe bet, I'll deal with the extra workload as gimped hardware is not for me...

Q-6
[doublepost=1556822453][/doublepost]

I just listened to the latest Podcast of John Gruber and he said that he (almost) knows that Apple is working on a new keyboard, but he doesn’t know if it is coming this year. Apparently this new keyboard will have more travel than the butterfly one. Gruber didn’t say though if this new keyboard would be a fourth generation butterfly keyboard, or something completely new. I guess we will see.
I don’t think that Apple doesn’t care, I just think that they though to have solved almost all issues with the 2018 version and underestimated the bad publicity.
I would really like to hear what Phil Schiller has to say at WWDC this June. It will really be interesting.

Apple needs to stop talking and deliver simple as that, nobody with an ounce of common-sense is interested in anything less...

Notebook's with an inherently flawed keyboard that remains after over 3 years Speaks volumes of what Apple thinks and how it values it's customers...

Q-6
[doublepost=1556823546][/doublepost]

I just listened to the latest Podcast of John Gruber and he said that he (almost) knows that Apple is working on a new keyboard, but he doesn’t know if it is coming this year. Apparently this new keyboard will have more travel than the butterfly one. Gruber didn’t say though if this new keyboard would be a fourth generation butterfly keyboard, or something completely new. I guess we will see.
I don’t think that Apple doesn’t care, I just think that they though to have solved almost all issues with the 2018 version and underestimated the bad publicity.
I would really like to hear what Phil Schiller has to say at WWDC this June. It will really be interesting.

As an independent professional Apple needs to get it's act together, no more excuses, no more solely designing for the Starbucks crowd. At this point I think few really care as long as they look nice...

Q-6