It hurts to listen to Gruber fan out over LLMs on his podcast
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
John Gruber Says 'Something is Rotten' at Apple
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Tbf Apple Intelligence is the only reason we got 16gb to be the standard in Apple devices as opposed to the 8gb so I wouldn't say Apple is rotten lol. The day Apple reduces the prices of storage upgrades will be the day that Apple is truly beloved. But let's be honest. How many times have you used Apple Intelligence in the past 7 days? I don't know a single person who uses it, and I'm a tech savvy person
I can’t disagree with this. I’ve recently tried an Honor Magic v3 fold phone…it’s light years ahead of Apple. And it’s $1349 for 12gb ram, 512gb storage, etc included. Absolutely no way Apple would give you even remotely close to those specs in a regular phone for that price let alone a folder phone.
No worries! We got some terrific new AI themed emojis, its all good.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
I had o3 compile a list of potential local sponsors for a client; 90% of the companies were blatantly fictional. You can spend frustrating hours in Flux or Midjourney just trying to get the results your prompt described. Every few days, I have to remind GPT how it should format or correct texts, as it sometimes creatively rewrites them or forgets Markdown altogether. MATE for InDesign almost never behaves as expected. The AI tools in Photoshop are hit or miss, and after a while, you mostly stop using them.
LLMs can be great fun and occasionally deliver remarkable results—when they work, they’re a game changer. But the glitches, hallucinations, odd tabulations, and the famously weird fingers or toes are an ongoing reality. Models that perform well compete directly, while those from Apple or Adobe often lag behind.
For us early adopters, it’s acceptable—fun, even—to experiment with SREF libraries, loras, and various LLMs to discover which generates usable texts or whether Evoto or Aram can genuinely compete with manual retouching. We enjoy the quirks, much like we did with early betas or amusingly flawed gadgets. Remember the Stone that promised to measure stress?
However, for Apple, the stakes are completely different. Siri has become increasingly frustrating despite continual promises of improvement. For Apple, any new, smarter Siri must be as reliable and secure as possible, functioning seamlessly across millions of devices and navigating complex international regulations.
It’s one thing for enthusiasts to dream of Apple achieving what no other company has done—providing a reliable, versatile, safe AI integrated into an OS. After some impressive moments with GPT, it feels possible—until the system reaches its limits, echoing your prompts.
It’s another matter entirely for Apple or any company to deliver on that dream. Integrating LLMs—or someday even AGI—into operating systems is a colossal challenge, dwarfing previous achievements. Current implementations often feel gimmicky: emoji generators, clumsy rephrasing tools inferior to GPT or Claude, or search engines confidently offering incorrect facts.
Apple’s OS affects millions worldwide, spanning countless languages, legal systems, and hardware variations. Every decision they make gets scrutinized and criticized. Naturally, they’re cautious, unlike smaller, more agile entities like OpenAI, which can experiment aggressively. Users tolerate GPT’s occasional hallucinations but wouldn’t accept faulty Maps navigation or unreliable HomeKit alarms.
We’ve tasted what AI-augmented OS could become; we’ve seen glimpses in films and flawed real-world attempts like Tesla’s self-driving failures or the Humane Pin. If Apple takes its time, it’s because Tim Cook’s responsibility is delivering safety, legality, and technical reliability.
AI integration in iOS is inevitable, though perhaps by iOS25 or later. Just recall iOS4 to understand the scope of evolution. Apple’s cautious approach isn’t nonsense—it’s a realistic strategy for an enormous company with numerous battles to fight, including difficult political climates and routine hardware/software revisions.
For OpenAI, LLMs are everything. For Apple, they’re one more significant task among many, further complicated by bureaucracy and organizational structure.
So let’s remain enthusiastic explorers, appreciating each new discovery along the way.
LLMs can be great fun and occasionally deliver remarkable results—when they work, they’re a game changer. But the glitches, hallucinations, odd tabulations, and the famously weird fingers or toes are an ongoing reality. Models that perform well compete directly, while those from Apple or Adobe often lag behind.
For us early adopters, it’s acceptable—fun, even—to experiment with SREF libraries, loras, and various LLMs to discover which generates usable texts or whether Evoto or Aram can genuinely compete with manual retouching. We enjoy the quirks, much like we did with early betas or amusingly flawed gadgets. Remember the Stone that promised to measure stress?
However, for Apple, the stakes are completely different. Siri has become increasingly frustrating despite continual promises of improvement. For Apple, any new, smarter Siri must be as reliable and secure as possible, functioning seamlessly across millions of devices and navigating complex international regulations.
It’s one thing for enthusiasts to dream of Apple achieving what no other company has done—providing a reliable, versatile, safe AI integrated into an OS. After some impressive moments with GPT, it feels possible—until the system reaches its limits, echoing your prompts.
It’s another matter entirely for Apple or any company to deliver on that dream. Integrating LLMs—or someday even AGI—into operating systems is a colossal challenge, dwarfing previous achievements. Current implementations often feel gimmicky: emoji generators, clumsy rephrasing tools inferior to GPT or Claude, or search engines confidently offering incorrect facts.
Apple’s OS affects millions worldwide, spanning countless languages, legal systems, and hardware variations. Every decision they make gets scrutinized and criticized. Naturally, they’re cautious, unlike smaller, more agile entities like OpenAI, which can experiment aggressively. Users tolerate GPT’s occasional hallucinations but wouldn’t accept faulty Maps navigation or unreliable HomeKit alarms.
We’ve tasted what AI-augmented OS could become; we’ve seen glimpses in films and flawed real-world attempts like Tesla’s self-driving failures or the Humane Pin. If Apple takes its time, it’s because Tim Cook’s responsibility is delivering safety, legality, and technical reliability.
AI integration in iOS is inevitable, though perhaps by iOS25 or later. Just recall iOS4 to understand the scope of evolution. Apple’s cautious approach isn’t nonsense—it’s a realistic strategy for an enormous company with numerous battles to fight, including difficult political climates and routine hardware/software revisions.
For OpenAI, LLMs are everything. For Apple, they’re one more significant task among many, further complicated by bureaucracy and organizational structure.
So let’s remain enthusiastic explorers, appreciating each new discovery along the way.
While I agree with almost everything said here...
I don't see myself moving to the different ecosystem anytime soon.
I've been using Macs and iPhones and iPads since forever. And I also have to use PCs with Windows and Android phones at work nearly everyday.
And I still believe that Apple still has the best hardware and the best software than the others. Be it MacOS or iOS.
There are definitely ways to improve the software, maybe even the hardware - some of that. But in the end no one has gotten close to how it all works together - at least not for me.
But Tim should definitely go. He's no innovator whatsoever.
Let's see what happens..
I don't see myself moving to the different ecosystem anytime soon.
I've been using Macs and iPhones and iPads since forever. And I also have to use PCs with Windows and Android phones at work nearly everyday.
And I still believe that Apple still has the best hardware and the best software than the others. Be it MacOS or iOS.
There are definitely ways to improve the software, maybe even the hardware - some of that. But in the end no one has gotten close to how it all works together - at least not for me.
But Tim should definitely go. He's no innovator whatsoever.
Let's see what happens..
Last edited:
It has nothing to do with being a boomer. It has to do with being a supply chain guy, not a product guy. It has to do with a C-suite that hasn’t had to be accountable while the bottom line kept rising. Instead of looking ahead, they have been comfortable and without real vision on the software side.
I'm glad something pierced the veil for Gruber, but he still doesn't quite get it. Apple isn't a product company under Cook. It never was. The experience a product delivers is secondary to the revenue stream it directs back to Apple. Tim Cook is a numbers guy, not a product guy. As COO he made Apple's supply chain ruthlessly efficient (minimizing costs) and as CEO his focus has been on the customer, but not as a user to be delighted, but as someone with pockets to be emptied (maximizing revenue). Just another part of the profit equation to be managed as efficiently as possible. Who cares if Apple Intelligence didn't ship this year? To Tim, that just means he gets to sell it again next year. What could be more efficient than that?
If John Giannandrea's job is not on the line after this then all all accoutability at Apple has gone out the window after Steve Jobs.
This only works so long as people continue to buy Apple hardware and services. Are you suggesting people are too lazy to go elsewhere?
100%
I think this is also a clear sign that Apple isn’t what it used to be.
I think most of the established companies were late the to AI game, no matter how they try to spin a story about it.
But Apple panicked. They lied. Why? I think it’s because they’ve forgotten what it means to innovate. Apple has rarely been first on things. But they’ve so often been the best at taking things others pioneered, and making it not just usable, but great. Amazing even. That’s what true innovation is to me. And Tim Cooks leadership has slowly been killing this drive within Apple.
Yes, Apple is more financially healthy than ever. But there don’t seem to be a respect for what built the foundation of how that prosperity was built.
Which is why Tim Cook has to go. He signed of on this. He’s got no more credibility.
I think this is also a clear sign that Apple isn’t what it used to be.
I think most of the established companies were late the to AI game, no matter how they try to spin a story about it.
But Apple panicked. They lied. Why? I think it’s because they’ve forgotten what it means to innovate. Apple has rarely been first on things. But they’ve so often been the best at taking things others pioneered, and making it not just usable, but great. Amazing even. That’s what true innovation is to me. And Tim Cooks leadership has slowly been killing this drive within Apple.
Yes, Apple is more financially healthy than ever. But there don’t seem to be a respect for what built the foundation of how that prosperity was built.
Which is why Tim Cook has to go. He signed of on this. He’s got no more credibility.
Even iCloud Drive is garbage and barely works. STILL. I never really believed this was going to happen in the original release timeline.
His inability to score the juiciest leaks is what he’s really pissed about.
People pay THOUSANDS a year to read his words, so he takes Apple more reliably firing his contacts personally.
And who is in charge of Craig and therefore software .... Cook. The buck stops at the top.
1 - Nobody cares about a personalized Siri feature.
Daring Fireball's John Gruber today shared some strongly-worded comments about Apple's delayed personalized Siri features. Gruber is a well-known Apple pundit who has been writing about the company for more than two decades.
In a blog post titled "Something Is Rotten in the State of Cupertino," Gruber said Apple's credibility has been "damaged" by the delay:This obviously isn't the first time that Apple has failed to deliver. However, Gruber said other examples like the canceled AirPower charging mat "tended to be around the edges," whereas he believes that generative AI is going to be "big" and "important."
It's not the delay by itself that bothers Gruber. He said the true "fiasco" here is that Apple "pitched a story" last year "that wasn't true":Gruber said the personalized Siri features announced during the WWDC keynote last year were merely conceptual, and therefore "********":He was even more explicit here:Gruber said Apple's repeated unwillingness or inability to demo the personalized Siri features in action since WWDC last year "should have set off blinding red flashing lights and deafening klaxon alarms" in his head that something was wrong.
Gruber went as far as saying that Apple's culture of excellence could be at risk if this situation is not handled correctly within the company:The full post is worth a read.
Article Link: John Gruber Says 'Something is Rotten' at Apple
2 - AI is just an advance search engine.
3 - Gruber is most likely shorting Apple’s stock.
What I hope from Apple more then anything is a cautious approach. Their hardware side of AI with ARM is industry leading. It can be leveraged for so many processes.
The other general aspects of AI can wait, I’m in no rush and maybe the flip side of this is that other companies and governments are running into more than a fiasco but a social and economic crisis with their AI dreams that could easily become nightmares.
The other general aspects of AI can wait, I’m in no rush and maybe the flip side of this is that other companies and governments are running into more than a fiasco but a social and economic crisis with their AI dreams that could easily become nightmares.
My goodness, I kinda disliked this guy but his blog post is spot on and very well written! I love it when people totally surprise me and therefore positively change my opinion about them! Go John! Lol.
Gruber is a partisan hack who won’t even post on X anymore since he hates Musk. I wouldn’t take business advice from him.
I'm no legal expert whatsoever, so I wish to ask about American Law......
Have Apple broken any American laws by advertising, selling, and "trying to get you to buy" the latest iPhones, based mainly on the BIG advertising, promises and claims about Apple intelligence?
It feels like it should not be allowed to promote so strongly a feature and a reason to buy a product for a lot of money, when it's clear and plain that the feature was not ready, was "made up for demo's" and internally they knew it was not ready.
Feels like this should not be legally ok to do.
Have Apple broken any American laws by advertising, selling, and "trying to get you to buy" the latest iPhones, based mainly on the BIG advertising, promises and claims about Apple intelligence?
It feels like it should not be allowed to promote so strongly a feature and a reason to buy a product for a lot of money, when it's clear and plain that the feature was not ready, was "made up for demo's" and internally they knew it was not ready.
Feels like this should not be legally ok to do.