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I'd rather have a Surface Pro 4 + Macbook Pro 15" 2016, Surface Book with performance base looked even worse given the price / performance / ports / screen size / weight. But I have specific needs and 2016 rMBP is almost a perfect fit. Funny, right? And it's 2016, still no proper Windows alternatives.... P50s is close, but.... ultrabook CPU? seriously?

I've got this combo and it doesn't really work as well as you'd think. The SP4 is a piece of crap compared to the MBP. The problem is that in use the SP4 isn't really a tablet, but a laptop. If you have a MBP you don't really need another laptop. The iPad Pro (either size) would complement it way, way better.
 
-- The lack of a port for my displays. Just thought Thunderbolt/MDP had been established as the norm and now I can't use my three home and work displays without dongles? And there isn't even one from Apple offering 4k@60Hz. Crazy.
I don't understand this at all. It's not unusual to require an adapter to connect displays to computers. Connect the adapter to the display cable once, and move on with your life! And your display doesn't even support 4K@60Hz. If it did, it would have Thunderbolt 3 and you'd be good to go.
 
Or I can check the forums for any product of anything ever made and see issues. Oh look! The new MacBooks drop wifi when connected to a device through thunderbolt.

Anyway...i think in your mind, anything that isn't apple probably is an inferior device to you

Probably the most logical comment so far.

If you read the iPhone forums here, the device is plagued and horrible...but that is based on a few people among millions.

The dell xps 13 and 15 have rave reviews from sites that are respectable (AnandTech, aris technical, etc).

Apple no longer has a large advantage in quality or OS. It's a matter of preference and cost now.
 
Probably the most logical comment so far.

If you read the iPhone forums here, the device is plagued and horrible...but that is based on a few people among millions.

The dell xps 13 and 15 have rave reviews from sites that are respectable (AnandTech, aris technical, etc).

Apple no longer has a large advantage in quality or OS. It's a matter of preference and cost now.

The old macbook pro also drops certain kinds of wifi when you connect to an external display with thunderbolt.
 
I couldn't believe I would one day say&do this.
Seriously? This thread plus your quote below (from April, regarding your plans for the 12" retina MacBook) makes this seem like a recurring theme for you.

Definitely doesn't seem like this was a "I couldn't believe it" moment for you in the slightest.

To answer the OP, I will be buying it just to use this little toy on my bed for two weeks and then return it to Apple and say: "I don't understand why your Ive guy and his team decided to taper the edges just so the laptop would look thinner than it really is, instead of not tapering the edges and putting in a useful Magsafe adapter and some useful USB ports. Here, take it back, then tell your design managers to put a this-decade-tech screen in the Air and take my money. I don't give a damn about saving 0.35 lbs of weight!"
 
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I don't understand this at all. It's not unusual to require an adapter to connect displays to computers. Connect the adapter to the display cable once, and move on with your life! And your display doesn't even support 4K@60Hz. If it did, it would have Thunderbolt 3 and you'd be good to go.

4K at 60Hz is fine with DisplayPort 1.2, which was in Thunderbolt 2 and up, and lots of existing monitors which have DisplayPort 1.2 already (using the old DisplayPort connector).

5k at 60Hz is where you need DisplayPort 1.3 or dual-channel DisplayPort 1.2. Unfortunately, DisplayPort 1.3 did not make it into Thunderbolt 3, but dual-channel DisplayPort 1.2 did. So 5k monitors probably will support Thunderbolt 3, but there are some out there which instead required two DisplayPort 1.2 cables.
 
I'm also out, for this year at least. I have a late 2013 maxed out 15 inch Pro and it would cost about $4300 (educational discount) to max out on a 2016. It has some nice improvements, like the 4GB video RAM and the 2TB storage, but I can't justify that kind of money for negligible upgrades - plus losing the convenience of different port types. Not to mention the added cost of expensive dongles. Requiring a dongle for the USB port, a standard that has existed for years, is unacceptable.

So, I'm keeping my late 2013 Pro as a secondary machine and am going to give a maxed out Surface Book Performance a try as my primary. The Surface Pro 4 was excellent, but the Book has more oomph. Plus, I'm equally adept at MacOS and Windows worlds, so it doesn't matter to me. It will be a nice change to give Windows 10 an extended try.
 
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I'm also out, for this year at least. I have a late 2013 maxed out 15 inch Pro and it would cost about $4300 (educational discount) to max out on a 2016. It has some nice improvements, like the 4GB video RAM and the 2TB storage, but I can't justify that kind of money for negligible upgrades - plus losing the convenience of different port types. Not to mention the added cost of expensive dongles. Requiring a dongle for the USB port, a standard that has existed for years, is unacceptable.

So, I'm keeping my late 2013 Pro as a secondary machine and am going to give a maxed out Surface Book Performance a try as my primary. The Surface Pro 4 was excellent, but the Book has more oomph. Plus, I'm equally adept at iOS and Windows worlds, so it doesn't matter to me. It will be a nice change to give Windows 10 an extended try.

So you are going to go from a 46w TDP processor to a 15w TDP similar to what is in the 11" MBA. But a $9 dongle. That's unacceptable?
 
I see that making final conclusions based on real user experiences must be too wild of a thought for you.

Sometimes, the benefit, or lack-thereof of features can't be fully appreciated by just reading a spec sheet. It takes actually using a device to figure stuff out. That's the great part about returns. One's decisions aren't always perfect.

Of course, silly goose. I support making use of return policies to make sure you're satisfied with any product you purchase. However his chief complaints (valid complaints too IMO) could've easily been avoided if he took any time to look at the specs. No legacy ports? Incompatible with old chargers? No 32GB RAM? So mad.
 
I know! With all those dongles you could have HDMI, USB, and more!
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lol I just can't believe "progress" includes dongles.

That particular dongle you have should have been included in the box IMO.

Why should Apple include that dongle when many people will want a different one? For example, I've never used the HDMI port on any of my laptops. I'd prefer displayport personally.

That's the advantage of Thunderbolt 3. They can be converted into exactly the ports that suit you best, without having to carry around ports you'll never use.
 
-- The lack of SD card slot. I use my MBP while on trips and excursions with the family. I put the SD card in all the time to offload things and check photos/videos I've taken. I can't do this with a dongle.

You need an USB-C card reader that will be just as fast.

-- The lack of dedicated USB ports for charging my devices like my phone.

Your model has 2 dedicated USB ports for charging your devices like your phone. Touch Bar models have 4. Get new cables, they are really cheap.

-- No 32 GB option. Ridiculous.

You bought an Air replacement and you want 32Gb RAM? And you use your laptop for trips and excursions with the family? I really would love to know why you think you need 32Gb RAM and why do you think 16Gb RAM is ridiculous.

What's so infuriating about the lack of ports is that it wasn't necessary for Apple to omit these for the sake of slimming the laptop down.

That is your opinion. I think it was necessary.

The tapering is so excessive (all in the name of showing off, not practical design) that significant height real estate got lost. That's not a good argument for omitting arguably one of the most important features of a personal computer -- connections.

New MacBook Pros have the most advanced technology for one of the most important features of a personal computer - connections.
 
Why should Apple include that dongle when many people will want a different one? For example, I've never used the HDMI port on any of my laptops. I'd prefer displayport personally.

That's the advantage of Thunderbolt 3. They can be converted into exactly the ports that suit you best, without having to carry around ports you'll never use.

Wow.
 
The xps 15 is a good alternative. Windows 10 is a great operating system, and Dell makes some killer hardware.

XPS 15 is an ok laptop. Windows 10 is a mediocre operating system and Dell makes average hardware at best. You don't have to agree, this is my opinion.
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That's the advantage of Thunderbolt 3. They can be converted into exactly the ports that suit you best, without having to carry around ports you'll never use.

No use, friend. Ports are the new "closed operating system". People will believe what they want to believe.
 
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XPS 15 is an ok laptop. Windows 10 is a mediocre operating system and Dell makes average hardware at best. You don't have to agree, this is my opinion.
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No use, friend. Ports are the new "closed operating system". People will believe what they want to believe.

I'll be using Linux on mine.
 
XPS 15 is an ok laptop. Windows 10 is a mediocre operating system and Dell makes average hardware at best. You don't have to agree, this is my opinion.

To be fair though - my 15" retina had staingate issues, which sucked, and then the dGPUs were failing all over the place for awhile..and Apple refused to acknowledge it for years until a class action lawsuit started to emerge.

Also to be fair, I can look at large pdfs smoothly on my xps15, while they still lag on macOS...which has been an issue since 2012 and on *numerous* retinas.

So..everything's not really roses on the Apple side.
 
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To be fair though - my 15" retina had staingate issues, which sucked, and then the dGPUs were failing all over the place for awhile..and Apple refused to acknowledge it for years until a class action lawsuit started to emerge.

Also to be fair, I can look at large pdfs smoothly on my xps15, while they still lag on macOS...which has been an issue since 2012 and on *numerous* retinas.

So..everything's not really roses on the Apple side.


True, I guess. But the XPS is not a solution to all problems either. I still consider it a matter of personal choice, more than anything.
 
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Why should Apple include that dongle when many people will want a different one? For example, I've never used the HDMI port on any of my laptops. I'd prefer displayport personally.

That's the advantage of Thunderbolt 3. They can be converted into exactly the ports that suit you best, without having to carry around ports you'll never use.
And then there are those of us who connect our laptops up to multiple external displays and use them as a desktop computer as well as a laptop. When I used my Macbook Pro this way (before I got an iMac), I would regularly have the two thunderbolt ports connected up to two displays, the HDMI port connected to a third display (which works with the laptop closed), the two USB ports plugged into 7 port hubs, the Magsafe port connected for power, and a set of speakers plugged in via the headphone socket port. That only left the SD card slot unused, and even that was regularly utilised for video files.

When I first saw photos of the Macbook with its one port I actually burst out laughing, I thought it was a joke, but at least they had only done this to a machine that was supposed to be as portable as possible. The new Macbook Pro, however, is NOT supposed to be an ultra portable machine, it's supposed to be aimed at users who need a powerful and versatile laptop. The compromises of the Macbook are TOTALLY unacceptable on the Macbook Pro - two ports on the entry level model and the four ports on the more expensive version are a joke. What kind of professional or dedicated hobbyist wants to deal with daisy-chained dongles to bring back basic functionality that they already had?

The iPhone 7 with the loss of the headphone port is one thing, but at least that can be bypassed with a set of bluetooth headphones. This is FAR worse.
 
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Why should Apple include that dongle when many people will want a different one? For example, I've never used the HDMI port on any of my laptops. I'd prefer displayport personally.

That's the advantage of Thunderbolt 3. They can be converted into exactly the ports that suit you best, without having to carry around ports you'll never use.

Yep, it's crazy people still don't get this. For me, on the old MBP, I'd use magsafe, usb-A, display port and headphone jack. It's foolish to try to please everybody with their own favorite ports.

On the new MPB, I would simply have one usb-c cable to the monitor and and usb hub daisy-chained to the monitor. Away from the office I wouldn't really need anything. That is an advantage everytime I connect/disconnect it.

That said, I would miss magsafe.
 
And then there are those of us who connect our laptops up to multiple external displays and use them as a desktop computer as well as a laptop. When I used my Macbook Pro this way (before I got an iMac), I would regularly have the two thunderbolt ports connected up to two displays, the HDMI port connected to a third display (which works with the laptop closed), the two USB ports plugged into 7 port hubs, the Magsafe port connected for power, and a set of speakers plugged in via the headphone socket port. That only left the SD card slot unused, and even that was regularly utilised for video files.

When I first saw photos of the Macbook with its one port I actually burst out laughing, I thought it was a joke, but at least they had only done this to a machine that was supposed to be as portable as possible. The new Macbook Pro, however, is NOT supposed to be an ultra portable machine, it's supposed to be aimed at users who need a powerful and versatile laptop. The compromises of the Macbook are TOTALLY unacceptable on the Macbook Pro - two ports on the entry level model and the four ports on the more expensive version are a joke. What kind of professional or dedicated hobbyist wants to deal with daisy-chained dongles to bring back basic functionality that they already had?

The iPhone 7 with the loss of the headphone port is one thing, but at least that can be bypassed with a set of bluetooth headphones. This is FAR worse.

Uh, it took me until like your last 2 sentences to realize that you weren't agreeing with the switch to Thunderbolt. Your scenario is the perfect situation for a new docking station. Ultimately you'll be able to leave all that stuff connected to the dock (and hidden away if you like) and sit down and connect just one cable.
 
No power user looked at the rMBPs and thought to themselves "Wow, nice portable laptop, honestly the only thing I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it was 17% thinner."

The rMBPs were already slim enough. If Apple could have thinned out the laptop without any drawbacks it would have been fine, but it was at the expensive of a keyboard with good tactile feedback and lower thermal load.
 
I know! With all those dongles you could have HDMI, USB, and more!
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lol I just can't believe "progress" includes dongles.

That particular dongle you have should have been included in the box IMO.
Ive had it for nearly 2 years already.
 
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