Jon Rubinstein Compares Lukewarm TouchPad Reception to Original Mac OS X

[psimac]

Ludicrous Comparison...

Talk about working the PR angle.

1. OSX is a computer OS not a tablet OS
2. OSX could run on existing hardware with a strong installed base
3. OSX had the ability to run OS9 applications, so instantly had thousands of applications available to run
4. That was 10 years ago!

Simply an idiotic comparison to get press. Weak.

 

[LeoNobilis]

I wish webOS all the best. iOS 5 and Android 3.1 wouldn't be where they are if it wasn't for webOS. I like webOS in concept, I just wish they execute better in terms of hardware and overall ecosystem.

Indeed, hardware (most particularly, those tiny screens and slide-out keyboards), marketing and distribution: in much of Europe no WebOS devices are sold. That's not going to help.
But the OS, particularly the user interface, the graphics, etc. -is superb. As appealing as iOS, to me at least.

 

[kdarling]

A lot of good comments in this thread.

It's a rare thing for an OS to be liked so much, even when it's fallen on hard times. If it were not for the small screen size and lack of a few apps, I might still be using a WebOS phone. (My oldest daughter still does.)

HP certainly has the resources and product depth to make WebOS a widely used system.

They already have shown the flick from phone to tablet thing, now add in broad printer support and desktops running WebOS.

IMO, the key is that HP needs is to stay committed for a few years. Don't flinch. Listen to your developers and users. Make great tools. Give us a large slab phone. Do like MS and contract out some app development, right now... it'll pay back many times over.

Good luck, HP!

 

[*LTD*]

Good job, Ruby.

Pay Apple a compliment like that publicly (essentially gushing with praise) when you want to sell your HP product, competing against Apple's star product.

Morale on your team must be sky-high now.

Why even mention Apple at all??

 

[mnb]

Rubenstein is an incompetent boob. He was a screw up at Apple and he's screwing up HP.

 

[wizard]

Because it isn't about big guns but having the right vision.

Even if it were a good product (I don't know I have never used it), I can't see it being successful. If Microsoft does not have the guns to go up against the big two, Why would anyone think HP could.

Seriously why do you think MS fails here? There is no champion at MS with the vision to produce a product suitable for the future.

As to HP, all they really need to do is to partner with the right people to fill in some of the blanks. For example Amazon for music. They don't need all of the iTunes infrastructure, all they need is the right software and back up techniques. The more that I use my iPad the more that I realize that key apps make a big contribution to using the device.

Honestly I do hope Touchpad is successful. Why? Well simple, I think HP might be a tiny bit more ethical that the Google team.

 

[marksman]

I expected the HP Web OS touchpad to be the one competitor to actually give Apple a bit of competition in the tablet space, but it seems like that will not be the case.

Seems like Apple will continue their dominance in the tablet space for at least another 12-18 months which by then maybe we will see someone come up with a real competitive product. The only problem is the iPad will be 12-18 months further along in its development at that time.

None of this is really suprising though. Some of us knew the main reason why Apple did not show the same kind of dominance in the phone market was simply due to the quirkyness of how the cell phone market works. Given a flat playing field where the best product always wins out, the iPhone would have likely showed the kind of dominance the iPad is showing. So what the iPad is doing should not be a surprise to anyone.

Like I said though, of all the competitors who were potentially going to make a product when the iPad came out, the HP / Web OS combo was the one I had the most hope in.

 

[wizard]

On the other hand there was a good two years where iOS was crap performance wise.

You're joking right? The reason why I switched to Mac was because of Vista's sluggish performance, and my 3 year old MacBook is snappier than ever with Snow Leopard. iOS is also blazing fast on the iPhone 4 and iPad 2, and the reason why Android has mixed performance is because of handset fragmentation... It runs great on the best hardware. HP is a very big company and churning out a sluggish tablet OS that only needs to run on one piece of hardware is just unacceptable by today's standards.

Well HP has to start somewhere. As to iOS; yeah it is great today but people have short memories. It took Apple a long time to stabilize iOS and get it to the point it is today.

The real question is how long will it take HP to iron out the major bugs and offer up the services that iOS users love. Given that even with the little bumps here and there it is still the best tablet OS next to Apples.

 

[kiljoy616]

I do see the similarity, the problem is that its not the Palm OS that is the problem, that can be fixed with just one update or two if they put real effort behind it. The problem is that the Hardware just plain sucks, its ugly and considering they are trying to bring in something new I would have expected HP would have put more effort into the hardware. R&D is there for a reason, but HP like so many computer companies just does not put effort into bringing consumer products people want to buy.

Look at cisco, makes sense their tablet but dam does it look hideous that only an IT department would implement.

 

[revelated]

I actually agree with him. WebOS' reviews seem very similar to the original OS X rollout- everyone reviewing OS X said, "Tons of potentials, some minor hiccups that need to be ironed out". Arstechnica recently did a review of their OS X 10.0 review that was interesting. WebOS seems to have, at least IMO, the most potential of any iOS competitor. It's being well handled and not fragmenting like Android, it doesn't seem as rushed, haphazard, and developer-unfriendly as the Blackberry Playbook, and it's not as "heavy" as Windows 8.

Here's the problem. webOS isn't "new". Palm was having a lot of these same issues with webOS YEARS ago. HP hasn't fixed the core problems with the OS.

As I understand it - and I jumped ship away from Apple right around their near death experience - Apple went back to the drawing board when it went to Unix and started developing out Mac OS which was part of the reason for their issues, but Mac OS shares very little in terms of similarities with the old System OS...common items are basically the Finder, the Apple menu, AppleScript (which isn't really the same), and the fact that they still call it "Macintosh HD" if I remember my old System OS machines. So for all intents and purposes, Mac OS was a brand new operating system.

webOS doesn't have that excuse. It's not new. It's the exact same thing it's always been save for a few refinements. I get conceptually what he's saying, but it's a flawed directive. They rushed it to market, period. Palm likely would have done the same thing. But I expected better of HP.

On a side note, he looks like a deflated Steven Seagal.

 

[cmaier]

Well HP has to start somewhere. As to iOS; yeah it is great today but people have short memories. It took Apple a long time to stabilize iOS

No it didn't.

and get it to the point it is today.

That's a meaningless truism.

 

[wizard]

Warped? IPhone is doing very well thank you.

You blew yourself out of the water. IPhone is doing very well in the market right now, no other single model sells as well.

As to TouchPad did you understand what was said? Most reviews like the interface but down grade it for sluggishness. That sluggishness can be dealt with with bug fixes and updates. The way I read the reviews TouchPad is the only viable alternative to iPad.

Frankly you talk about hope but demonstrate a total unwillingness to give the device a few day on the market. Either your hope is extremely shallow or you memory extremely short, as I've said before iPhone OS was pretty crappy out of the box. It would be better to see what is up 3 and 6 months from now.

I expected the HP Web OS touchpad to be the one competitor to actually give Apple a bit of competition in the tablet space, but it seems like that will not be the case.

Seems like Apple will continue their dominance in the tablet space for at least another 12-18 months which by then maybe we will see someone come up with a real competitive product. The only problem is the iPad will be 12-18 months further along in its development at that time.

None of this is really suprising though. Some of us knew the main reason why Apple did not show the same kind of dominance in the phone market was simply due to the quirkyness of how the cell phone market works. Given a flat playing field where the best product always wins out, the iPhone would have likely showed the kind of dominance the iPad is showing. So what the iPad is doing should not be a surprise to anyone.

Like I said though, of all the competitors who were potentially going to make a product when the iPad came out, the HP / Web OS combo was the one I had the most hope in.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

The problem with his comparison is that even if true, the comparison has no predictive power. A lot of products have a rocky start, and invoking the similar beginnings of OS X isn't some talisman that makes your product likely to succeed.

All WebOS's problems pale in comparison to its biggest problem - it isn't iOS, it isn't an iPad. Improving the quality isn't going to change that.

 

[kiljoy616]

BeOS was going to be an incredible OS too.

And for someone who actually used it,BeOS 4, it was, but you need money and lots of it to compete and change the human monkey mind set once its set.

BeOS could not change because it lacked what made windows great, Games! Lets not kid our selves forget Apps for work, what people want to see on tablets what ever version is games, games, games.

Will there be lots of games for the WebOS or will it just have a few 100 programs only a select few will want? I don't see it going far but who knows stranger things have happen. I for one will stay with the coolest hardware a company makes and that the iPad and if the iPad 3 has "retina" I can't even see anyone except die hard hatter of Apple getting anything else.

 

[Skoal]

As far as I'm concerned the success of OSX can be directly attributed to the iPod, iPhone, and now the iPad. I think more Mac's are being sold due to that than anything.

 

[wizard]

As a 3G owner I have to respectfully and forcefully disagree.

No it didn't.

Well believe what you want but frankly you are blowing your credibility here. I had a 3G within a few weeks of intro and frankly was appalled at the issues that phone had. Significant issues like not connecting. Thankfully those days have passed.

Honestly I think many people here have extremely short memories and don't remember the frequent updates. It is an entirely different story now a days, updates come to deliver major features instead of a laundry list of bug fixes.

That's a meaningless truism.

Beyond that the SDK exposed the fact that their where numerous is or bugs if you will in the software. It wasn't a figment of my imagination.

In any event the general tone in this thread seems to imply that iOS is and always was "perfect". That hasn't been the case (no OS is perfect) but early adopters had issues far more damning than those detailed for the TouchPad.

 

[*LTD*]

All WebOS's problems pale in comparison to its biggest problem - it isn't iOS, it isn't an iPad. Improving the quality isn't going to change that.

You pretty much nailed it.

Unless you're Apple you're going to have an incredibly difficult time competing in the tablet space, mostly because you need to have everything set up - ecosystem, apps, everything - even before your product hits the shelves. And THEN, you'll need to pull a game-changing rabbit out of your hat in order to differentiate yourself 100% from Apple. And I'm talking the kind of differentiation that gets consumers excited and lining up en masse.

And THEN (yes, there's more), you've got all that Apple mindshare and brand perception to get past. Most of these competing tablets are dead before they even hit the shelves. Killed in the womb.

The tablet space isn't like the smartphone space. At all.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Even if it were a good product (I don't know I have never used it), I can't see it being successful. If Microsoft does not have the guns to go up against the big two, Why would anyone think HP could.

I believe MS is going up against them with Windows 8.

Their problem is, all the development efforts by 3rd parties is on Android and iOS. Even MS is having issues attracting apps.

So, even though WebOS could turn into a great OS, there's not a huge burning hole in the market like there was when OSX came out. Plus, Apple used the success of the iPod to attract new customers to the Mac... HP does not have anything like that. They would need something no one else has or totally change the game, not just one-up it. That will not be enough with the dominance of iOS and Android.

I believe WP is hitting the milestones at a faster pace than Apple App store did or the Android one.
THey hit 1k 10k ect in much shorter time span. MS is using there deep pockets to get WP7 off the ground and going.

I think in this case HP is going to use its deeper pockets to get WebOS really going. Palms biggest problem was they just did not have the money to do it.

 

[cmaier]

Well believe what you want but frankly you are blowing your credibility here. I had a 3G within a few weeks of intro and frankly was appalled at the issues that phone had. Significant issues like not connecting. Thankfully those days have passed.

I have owned two or more of every model (albeit not every color and RAM variation) since the first version. I have never had any "significant issues," and neither have most people.

There have been a ton of major updates and new features, but stability has always been a strong suit (other than developer beta releases).

Beyond that the SDK exposed the fact that their where numerous is or bugs if you will in the software. It wasn't a figment of my imagination.

What's an example of a bug that was exposed by the SDK?

 

[inkswamp]

Talk about working the PR angle.

1. OSX is a computer OS not a tablet OS
2. OSX could run on existing hardware with a strong installed base
3. OSX had the ability to run OS9 applications, so instantly had thousands of applications available to run
4. That was 10 years ago!

Simply an idiotic comparison to get press. Weak.

In addition to all that, Apple introduced 10.0 as a beta and 10.1 wasn't pushed as their primary OS. I understand Rubenstein wanting to stem some of the negative press, but at the same time, I sure hope he doesn't buy this comparison himself otherwise the future of WebOS is very uncertain.

What I don't understand is why he didn't compare it to Android's introduction. There are a lot more parallels between Android's rough start and the launch of the TouchPad than to OS X's beginnings. And the comparison works a lot more easily and with fewer seams in the logic.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Here's the problem. webOS isn't "new". Palm was having a lot of these same issues with webOS YEARS ago. HP hasn't fixed the core problems with the OS.

As I understand it - and I jumped ship away from Apple right around their near death experience - Apple went back to the drawing board when it went to Unix and started developing out Mac OS which was part of the reason for their issues, but Mac OS shares very little in terms of similarities with the old System OS...common items are basically the Finder, the Apple menu, AppleScript (which isn't really the same), and the fact that they still call it "Macintosh HD" if I remember my old System OS machines. So for all intents and purposes, Mac OS was a brand new operating system.

webOS doesn't have that excuse. It's not new. It's the exact same thing it's always been save for a few refinements. I get conceptually what he's saying, but it's a flawed directive. They rushed it to market, period. Palm likely would have done the same thing. But I expected better of HP.

On a side note, he looks like a deflated Steven Seagal.

WebOS is a face on top of WebKit and Linux, with touch UI actions. That's it.

 

[applefan69]

In addition to all that, Apple introduced 10.0 as a beta and 10.1 wasn't pushed as their primary OS. I understand Rubenstein wanting to stem some of the negative press, but at the same time, I sure hope he doesn't buy this comparison himself otherwise the future of WebOS is very uncertain.

What I don't understand is why he didn't compare it to Android's introduction. There are a lot more parallels between Android's rough start and the launch of the TouchPad than to OS X's beginnings. And the comparison works a lot more easily and with fewer seams in the logic.

simple.

OS X is a well known success now, Android is still a great big question mark.

 

[*LTD*]

I think in this case HP is going to use its deeper pockets to get WebOS really going. Palms biggest problem was they just did not have the money to do it.

Palm's biggest problem was that consumers weren't buying. Of course, they also lacked a robust ecosystem.

MS' biggest problem is that Android and Apple provide little reason for consumers to choose WP7. When both of MS' rivals are hitting major SALES milestones each quarter, serving both ends of the market, getting *another* OS and platform to make waves is going to be rather difficult, unless what you offer is mind-blowing. As for that, MS hasn't achieve anything game-changing with WP7 - nothing on the order of June 2007, that's for sure.

Again, MS is way late to the game. Their main rival is Android, and Google's already taken the universal licensor role.

Throwing more money at something won't make any difference when your entire game-plan is wrong.

It isn't that WP7 is a bad platform at all. It's just that it should have been introduced three years ago. But at the time Ballmer liked his strategy. He liked it a lot.

 

[SandynJosh]

HP has going for it too that they sell a ton of pc's every year, and are going to be pushing out Web OS on one they sell. So they kind of will have millions of built in users too.

You may be too young to remember that when HP got into the computer business, circa mid-80s, they had their own OS, not Microsoft's. They learned then that going it alone didn't work.

This time around they want to license their OS to other manufacturers. To get any takers, they need to make the WebOS a contender. The includes building a ecosystem as well as speeding up the OS to today's expectations.

To say HP or WebOS has potential really doesn't say anything more then saying Microsoft has potential to come up with a new idea.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I believe MS is going up against them with Windows 8.

You forgot to mention Windows 8 was your idea