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All this talk of updating the internals makes no sense.
Who would be bothered with updating a $350 device?
Apple wouldn't want to update internals, they want you to replace the device with every generation. Just doing internals would make the device look dated compared to other devices in a short amount of time, they would never lock themselves in like that.
 
All this talk of updating the internals makes no sense.
Who would be bothered with updating a $350 device?
Apple wouldn't want to update internals, they want you to replace the device with every generation. Just doing internals would make the device look dated compared to other devices in a short amount of time, they would never lock themselves in like that.

I wouldn't update the internals of the $350 device. But those who pay more for the stainless steel or 18K gold version might be willing to pay for new insides, rather than pay the premium price again.
 
Reading the article, it becomes clear that Ive and his team have spent the last four years sweating the Apple Watch design down to the smallest detail. Yet, we get another thread full of comments from armchair designers who could have done it better right off the tops of their heads. They also seem to already know everything they need to know about a product they've never actually seen. What amazing abilities we find here.

This article is about as complete an insight into Ive's (and consequently, Apple's) product design process as we've ever had. I thought it was fascinating, and a reminder, for those who needed one, that Apple puts a lot more thought into these things than commenters on MR.

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Just the opposite. The article describes Ive's lab as the hub of the design operations at Apple.

So what, don’t be so ridiculous. There are plenty of items that bigger companies than Apple have designed and gotten wrong quite plainly.
Why do people think that just because a well known company with an overrated designer did it that it must be right and ordinary people cannot come up with better ideas/designs.

Think about it, a car company may get a design wrong for years and have an engine overheat, a driver may implement something simple to alleviate the problem, Apple are no different.
 
Even if only the really expensive ones were to update, it's still wouldn't make sense. That would mean that the size and proportions would have to stay the same from generation to generation in order to make the internals backward compatible with skeleton of the watch.
 
So what, don’t be so ridiculous. There are plenty of items that bigger companies than Apple have designed and gotten wrong quite plainly.
Why do people think that just because a well known company with an overrated designer did it that it must be right and ordinary people cannot come up with better ideas/designs.

Think about it, a car company may get a design wrong for years and have an engine overheat, a driver may implement something simple to alleviate the problem, Apple are no different.

I did not say they must be right. What I said is they made the design decisions they did for a reason. I'd add that nobody really has any actual basis to judge whether they were right or wrong.

I shall try to be less ridiculous in the future.
 
There have been lots of questions, and no clear answers. What we got are more speculations and more questions.

Apple only reveal half of what Watch is. Smart moves I'd say.

The question is rhetorical. The article details how little functionality the watch has. On what
basis do you believe apple is withholding "half" its features. None.

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Even if only the really expensive ones were to update, it's still wouldn't make sense. That would mean that the size and proportions would have to stay the same from generation to generation in order to make the internals backward compatible with skeleton of the watch.
stop making sense!

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I did not say they must be right. What I said is they made the design decisions they did for a reason. I'd add that nobody really has any actual basis to judge whether they were right or wrong.

Question--why can't we make an assessment from the presentation at the
apple watch event? If you read the Wall Street Journal article today it seems the current limited nature of the watch owes to failed r&d.
 
The question is rhetorical. The article details how little functionality the watch has. On what
basis do you believe apple is withholding "half" its features. None.


Sure, and you know that from where? Unless you are the developer of the watch, you know as little as me, and I don't even claim that's all Apple has revealed, even based on that article.
 
All this talk of updating the internals makes no sense.
Who would be bothered with updating a $350 device?
Apple wouldn't want to update internals, they want you to replace the device with every generation. Just doing internals would make the device look dated compared to other devices in a short amount of time, they would never lock themselves in like that.

They're not talking about a user updating their own watch, but Apple making a new model and using the same motherboard, screen, etc on both of them.
 
I think the concept is amazing. I really like the idea of a smart watch.
The downside to me is it being tethered to your iPhone in your pocket. I don't think the tech is there to cut the rope and have a fully on it's own functioning smart watch. But once that day comes, sign me up for an Apple Watch.

Of cause on that day the Apple Watch will become a PC. A computer with no intermediate device required (like an iPhone in this case). And it will join the iPad, iPhone and many other products that are the changing face of PCs.

Post PC is ********. The PC will live on. Just now we have new types of PCs. iPads, iPhones are PCs. And one day the Apple Watch will become a PC (when it's iPhone reliance is gone).

If you think that tethering the Apple Watch to your iPhone is a downside I cant imagine how do feel having your iPhone been "tethered" to a mobile operator and data plan to do what it is doing. Without a data plan, your iPhone is basicly an iPod with a camera, since you cant do anything (browsing, mailing, chating, etc.). Also, I dont see how a smarth watch that is a stand-alone device can have any benefits despite being a simple sensor recorder of what are you doing and which must be subsequently conected to a computer to download the data and provide you with the information you need. Or maybe you want another sim slot in your watch? Another data plan? The Apple Watch is an accesory that in my opinion will become a must for every iPhone owner. The possability to receive silent notification by the taptic engine, send voice comands, comunicate with a gesture, a simple touch in a way that is so natural and none obstructive. The benefit? You can be all day conected and receive information without touching your phone, send descrete messages and be conected to other people in a complete new way...and thats just scratching the surface of what is posible and what future apps would be able to do.
 
So what, don’t be so ridiculous. There are plenty of items that bigger companies than Apple have designed and gotten wrong quite plainly.
Why do people think that just because a well known company with an overrated designer did it that it must be right and ordinary people cannot come up with better ideas/designs.

Think about it, a car company may get a design wrong for years and have an engine overheat, a driver may implement something simple to alleviate the problem, Apple are no different.

Why do people think that just because a well know company with an overrated designer did it that it must be right and ordinary people cannon come up with better ideas/designs?

Well, because when two of the most influential industrial designers of our generation (the "overrated" designer according to you) and their teams have spent YEARS developing every ****** nanometer of the design of the watch trying THOUSANDS of options and ideas, without any control limitation or budget restriction considering EVERY DAMN ASPECT of the product, many of which most people wont even notice or care about, and when these same people have developed some of the most iconic products that sold in bilions of units and changed the world without any exegeration here, converting Apple in the most valuable company in the world, then MOST RACIONAL PEOPLE will give these people some credit about their job before questioning their capibiliy to deliver us the best product you can buy with your money.

Now you have it?
 
If you think that tethering the Apple Watch to your iPhone is a downside I cant imagine how do feel having your iPhone been "tethered" to a mobile operator and data plan to do what it is doing. Without a data plan, your iPhone is basicly an iPod with a camera, since you cant do anything (browsing, mailing, chating, etc.).

I don't have the mobile carrier's services in my pocket with me every day. But to use an Apple Watch on the go with all it's features, you need your iPhone in close proximity. Basically if you want full watch functionality, you need your iPhone with too. And that's the point I was making.

Keep in mind that practically EVERYBODY said the same thing about the iPad.
Not everyone. I loved the idea of the iPad from day 1. I only bought a 4th Gen one as I didn't have a need for one earlier. But I really saw the iPad's potential from the get go. The iPad Mini I hated and still do not like as a product. But it's there and it makes Apple profits.

All the people who spend $1K to over $2K to browse the Internet and read email would be a good counter argument. When iPod was new, I heard a salesperson tell a customer it would get them dates. Watch is very much going to satisfy a want. I hope it can do more than is apparent now. I like gadgets and I want it but not for the price. The fashion aspect does not fill the gap for me. Maybe in the future the want will trump the spend. Not now.
Apple make these people believe their $1k-$2k machine is the best way to browse the internet. Before the iPad Apple was still advertising Safari as the best internet browsing experience and people believed they needed this and bought their Macs.

I agree with you though that the Apple Watch at the moment is satisfying wants. Apple has not given us an way to believe we need it. In the future this will come though as you say.

I sincerely hope not. I believe that Ive and Jobs were symbiotic. Steve's absence shows how inferior Ive is when he's on his own, like the musician that leaves his band and makes a solo album that is not as good as the band's material.

I can't wait for him to be replaced.

Particularly on the software-design side of things.

But it won't happen. Sadly (at least for me).
In my opinion iOS7 disagrees with you. I think it was so much better than what Forstall put out.

In a way I agree with you. I've idea creating process has not changed since the passing of Jobs. What Jobs did was basically tell everyone what the good ideas were and what the **** ones were. Even Ive had bad ideas in the past. Were many of them made into retail products we bought? No. And the reason is Jobs nipped them all in the butt before the bad ideas became products. Now there is no Jobs to nip all the bad ideas in the butt. I don't think Cook is capable of doing this. I do not think it's Cook's area of expertise. Cook is the supply management genius. And this does worry me in the longer term. As I feel the Apple Watch is the last Apple product that had beginnings while Jobs was alive.

I agree. The important part is the intention of the product. You use an iPhone/iPad for many of the same purposes as a PC.

But I believe Steve was making a more accurate distinction: that limited products like the iPad could cover most of the tasks PCs are used for, hence the comparison to cars vs trucks. Steve was being specific; the PC is a truck. So while they're both transportation machines, and you can do similar things with them, they do not replace each other.

I don't think Steve meant to imply that "Post-PC" meant PCs are no longer necessary at all. I think he meant that now the majority of users weren't forced to have them in order to perform the tasks he perceived to be typical in PC use: Email, photos, video, music, web-browsing.

I could go on a trip and only use my phone now for things that used to require a PC, hence the "Post-PC" era.

I agree with you, and I have seen the truck analogy Jobs used, I watched that keynote. Jobs was referring to the PC as what we used to call a traditional PC, as in desktops. And under that frame of mind he was totally correct. He saw PCs as desktops vs everything else. I am talking about PCs as all PCs. I guess both of us are right but it's all depending on our different points of view.

"I could go on a trip and only use my phone now for things that used to require a Desktop PC, hence the "Post - Desktop PC" era.

I quoted one line from what you said and added one word in. I think what you are saying is correct about desktop PCs. But I really think in 50 years (or maybe less) what we call a PC will not be a desktop. They will be the trucks people do not use on a daily basis anymore, unless for a specific job.

I believe we have a "post desktop PC era" but not a post PC era. I think the PC itself will always be there, just what we refer to as our most used PC will change.

Ive is the most over rated designer in the world.
White. Thin.
Big freaking deal.
No attention to ergonomics and dumbing down the internals just to make it as thin as possible is getting REALLY old.
Personally I would love to see him take a hike
His products make Apple billions of dollars. I think that proves you wrong.

There's a great clip of Steve Jobs saying they're not PCs. Just because something has a microprocessor inside does not make it a PC. He had a point - if a fridge had a microprocessor inside would you call that a PC?
Jobs was referring to the desktop PC there and how it's a truck that we will not always use every day in the future but it will still be needed by a portion of the community. That's totally different to the idea that phones and tablets are PCs also, just a PC in a different form.

How long will this go on for?! Apple will eventually fade away, but I hope between now and then we won't have
'Post-Ive, they're in trouble'
'Post-Tim, they're in trouble'
'Post-Eddy, they're in trouble'
Etc etc.
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not. But the Apple University exists to prevent exactly what you are talking about.
 
Question--why can't we make an assessment from the presentation at the
apple watch event? If you read the Wall Street Journal article today it seems the current limited nature of the watch owes to failed r&d.

Because of the lack of detail. Because as always the proof is in the use. Because the WSJ article says only that Apple looked at wide variety of technologies and went with the ones that worked. Because it would be astonishing if they went about their design business any other way.

Any more questions?
 
Because of the lack of detail. Because as always the proof is in the use. Because the WSJ article says only that Apple looked at wide variety of technologies and went with the ones that worked. Because it would be astonishing if they went about their design business any other way.

Any more questions?

Lack of detail? Its clear how its going to work. Get back to me with all the new features introduced in the product release
 
By that point, it will be implanted. I don't personally think a smart watch will ever be a necessity. I think most people have never cared about smart watches (look at sales) and all of a sudden Apple fan websites are blowing up with people raving about how it's s game changer, the start of a new platform, soon to be an essential piece of tech, etc. Just because it has an Apple logo. No one was excited about smart watches before. I'd bet that 99% of the Apple fanboys and fangirls oooooooing and ahhhhhing over the Apple Watch never bought another kind of smart watch, despite similar features. The Apple Watch doesn't really do anything that other products don't do, other than bringing a much better interface (we hope) and tighter integration with one's phone. Both of these things are great and will likely help the Apple Watch sell more units, but there's no killer app.

You kinda missed my point. I think it's quite plausible that the Apple Watch will be as much a necessity as a smart phone once...and it will take a while to get there...but once the Internet of things reaches a critical mass. Once a majority of every day things like door locks, car ignitions, security passes, home HVAC systems etc. all become "smart" and the majority of people are controlling them with some type of smart watch. Right now that whole ecosystem and "change in people's lives" is just barely budding. One day in the not too distant it will be as commonplace as cars, cell phones, tablets, a keychain ....the Internet age is still very new and yet see how quickly it has transformed our world/lives and disrupted long standing business models.
 
Lack of detail? Its clear how its going to work. Get back to me with all the new features introduced in the product release

Not to me, it isn't. The OS wasn't even finished when it was announced, so nobody outside Apple has ever seen the product, at least not that they can talk about. The software is where the rubber hits the road with tech products. Or did that concept change suddenly when I wasn't looking? Lots of Apple products have been griped for being "feature poor," but that didn't stop them from being popular with users. It isn't about "new features," it's about how the thing actually works.
 
I would expect him to stay until he retires. My understanding is he's the freest person at Apple, free to design whatever he wants, free to veto whatever he wants. He has near limitless amounts of resources at his disposal. He's allowed to work with whomever he wants. I don't know why he would ever leave.

I do think you're right! However, "retire" is a interesting word when you think about the options open to Ives. It's true that he has many freedoms at Apple compared to whatever most of the rest of us have had, no matter where we've worked. Still, the responsibilities of Ive at Apple must be so tiring sometimes. When money isn't everything and the ties that bind start to chafe, the open door beckons. He could go anywhere, do anything. He can probably do all that and still "be at Apple" for a pretty long time. It all comes at a cost only he and his family (and maybe even Apple's CEO) can fairly assess.

If Apple's management is smart then an acceptable handoff will come while Ive is still seen to be there, and the public (ok, the industry analysts) will become aware of it as an expected maneuver, not some sort of forced paradigm shift or abrupt leavetaking. It sounds like the working approach of the design team with engineers is well in place meanwhile.

No employee is irreplaceable, although some are missed more than others. Ive will be one of the latter, but he is also (and Steve was) in the former group as well. Of course there's always doomsaying when Apple so much as drops a port on a machine, never mind adjusts staffing, particularly if names we recognize are involved. There's been an Apple death knell for decades now, and that's plenty long enough to call it an Apple feature! :p :eek: But in truth, I don't worry about it. I just always look forward to seeing what Apple will come up with next. When Ive and Apple part company is up to them, in the meantime, I have so loved seeing each "one more thing..." even if whatever it has not ended up as part of my gear.

I really enjoyed reading Ian Parker's profile on Ive in The New Yorker. As I'm currently several weeks behind downloading the magazine's issues to my iPad, I'm grateful that MacRumors posted the link.
 
I would expect him to stay until he retires. My understanding is he's the freest person at Apple, free to design whatever he wants, free to veto whatever he wants. He has near limitless amounts of resources at his disposal. He's allowed to work with whomever he wants. I don't know why he would ever leave.

Pressure. Burnout. I see he is taking on the new store design too (with Angela). Add in product development, software guidance... He's getting pulled in too many directions.
 
Wow that was a long article!
But anything having to do with :apple: is a good read.

Why is Ives doing the Illuminati thing anyway or is that the New Yorker's doing?
 
But I believe Steve was making a more accurate distinction: that limited products like the iPad could cover most of the tasks PCs are used for, hence the comparison to cars vs trucks. Steve was being specific; the PC is a truck. So while they're both transportation machines, and you can do similar things with them, they do not replace each other.

I don't think Steve meant to imply that "Post-PC" meant PCs are no longer necessary at all. I think he meant that now the majority of users weren't forced to have them in order to perform the tasks he perceived to be typical in PC use: Email, photos, video, music, web-browsing.

Yep. Jobs was using the analogy of how everyone used to need a truck around the farm.

The "post truck" era came when most people no longer needed a farm truck, and could instead get by with family sedans and even personal sports cars.

As you say, the trucks are still needed by the farmers and movers and workers, but not by the general public just to get around.

(Of course, as we see here all the time, vehicle analogies always fail in some way. In his example, I would point out that trucks have always been the top selling vehicles in the US. Moreover, families deliberately buy truck-like vehicles because it keeps their family safer and they're more useful as general haulers.)
 
Pressure. Burnout. I see he is taking on the new store design too (with Angela). Add in product development, software guidance... He's getting pulled in too many directions.

It's his own choice, though. He picks to be pulled in those directions. It doesn't have to be all or nothing - he's free to sever individual ties he doesn't want anymore.
 
I read the entire article. The article seems to take great pains in presenting Jony and his team as completely separate from the rest of the Apple crew. They're completely locked in the lab and work completely independently.

This kind of thing annoys me. If Jony were as humble as he says he is, he'd acknowledge that his team can work in complete "independence" and with a blank check only with the help of the lowly engineers that comprise the rest of the Apple staff.
My recollection from reading Inside Apple was that pretty much every team is firewalled from the other teams. They all need key cards with access to only the rooms relevant to their work. This accomplishes two things: (1) it prevents leaks, and (2) it keeps the Apple in permanent "startup mode"—i.e., from each employee's perspective, the company always feels small and agile, despite its actual size.
 
And then we have Morgan Stanley (I think) predicting 25 millions units sold in the first year. Really? The entire wearables market last year was around 5 million units. Apple is going to single-handedly sell 5x that many watches the first year? I've seen some people on these forums suggest 40+ million units. So I do think some people have pretty crazy unrealistic expectations.
I think they'll sell at least 1.5x (7.5m) the first quarter. Apple sold 75m iPhones last quarter to an audience that received the aWatch preannoucement. Leaving aside the 300m other iPhones in use, it's realistic to assume, barring some showstopping "Watchgate" (which would have to be more profound than Antennagate or Bendgate, neither of which disrupted sales), that 10% of the latest iPhone buyers will get the watch in Q2 2015. That's assuming that the user experience is just north of lukewarm. If the experience turns out to be awesome enough to result in giddy word-of-mouth, 40m sounds reasonable.

If the watch turns out to suck, I'd still conservatively say 10m for the first year. Remember, Apple has way more retail distribution channels than its competitors, Apple Stores get way more foot traffic, and the aWatch is the first smartwatch to have full iPhone integration (including private APIs for maps, biometrics, etc.).

I'm open to debating the utility of the watch, but I think Apple's would have to seriously underdeliver not to sell a few million out of the gate.
 
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