Jonathan Ive Discusses Steve Jobs and Apple Watch in 'The New Yorker' Interview

[IJ Reilly]

Reading the article, it becomes clear that Ive and his team have spent the last four years sweating the Apple Watch design down to the smallest detail. Yet, we get another thread full of comments from armchair designers who could have done it better right off the tops of their heads. They also seem to already know everything they need to know about a product they've never actually seen. What amazing abilities we find here.

This article is about as complete an insight into Ive's (and consequently, Apple's) product design process as we've ever had. I thought it was fascinating, and a reminder, for those who needed one, that Apple puts a lot more thought into these things than commenters on MR.

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I read the entire article. The article seems to take great pains in presenting Jony and his team as completely separate from the rest of the Apple crew. They're completely locked in the lab and work completely independently.

This kind of thing annoys me. If Jony were as humble as he says he is, he'd acknowledge that his team can work in complete "independence" and with a blank check only with the help of the lowly engineers that comprise the rest of the Apple staff.

Just the opposite. The article describes Ive's lab as the hub of the design operations at Apple.

 

[DakotaGuy]

A few years ago, Ive and his colleagues assessed each prototype size of the future iPhone 6 by carrying them around for days. “The first one we really felt good about was a 5.7,” he recalled. “And then, sleeping on it, and coming back to it, it was just ‘Ah, that’s way too big.’ And then 5.6 still seems too big.” (As Cook described that process, “Jony didn’t pull out of his butt the 4.7 and the 5.5.”)

Sure. So every other company that has 4.7" and 5.5" phones (by far a couple of the most popular sized screens) just pulled them out of their butt years before Apple did?

Where do they think up these ridiculous creative marketing statements? I'm not saying they don't work because people fall for them daily, but honestly...

Besides Jony I've handled your iPhone Plus 5.5" and next to my LG G3 5.5" it's just "Ah, that's way too big." Trim that thing down a bit!

 

[melendezest]

Steve was not perfect. And the definition according to wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer

Sure that is only wikipedia and info there is not perfect cause it's a publicly editable database. But I do like this definition. You are correct. It's not just having a microprocessor. The computer has to be able to run on it's own with no other computing operator needed. Ie, iPad/iPhone not needing iTunes on Mac anymore. Or the Apple Watch when it no longer needs to be tethered to the iPhone.

Would a fridge's microprocessor be general purpose enough to be a PC? I'm not sure to be honest. And if the computer part didn't need an intervening operator, it would almost be a PC. The major failing of a fridge being a PC is it's size. A fridge is not useful to individuals as a computer alone, because of it's size. No one would buy a computer as large as a fridge and call it a PC these days. It's a fridge with a computer, not a PC that's also a fridge.

Wow, that's a lot of thought about is a fridge a PC and the answer is no. But an Apple Watch can be a PC once the need for the iPhone intervening operator is removed.

I agree. The important part is the intention of the product. You use an iPhone/iPad for many of the same purposes as a PC.

But I believe Steve was making a more accurate distinction: that limited products like the iPad could cover most of the tasks PCs are used for, hence the comparison to cars vs trucks. Steve was being specific; the PC is a truck. So while they're both transportation machines, and you can do similar things with them, they do not replace each other.

I don't think Steve meant to imply that "Post-PC" meant PCs are no longer necessary at all. I think he meant that now the majority of users weren't forced to have them in order to perform the tasks he perceived to be typical in PC use: Email, photos, video, music, web-browsing.

I could go on a trip and only use my phone now for things that used to require a PC, hence the "Post-PC" era.

 

[teslo]

Thanks for pointing me to articles like these; it’s not like I gander through the entire Internet on a daily basis, on the lookout for articles like these. Oh, and what are those notebooks? I’m sure Apple can make them thinner ¡ (speaking of thinner, whassup wit da fat iPhone?

does ANYONE understand this comment?

 

[jmgregory1]

I think an even bigger challenge is battery life. If you're going to depend upon a device like that, you can't have to remember to charge it every few hours or even once a day. And you certainly can't expect an older person in assisted living to remember to do so. Such a device has to work around the clock for weeks or more between charges. And it must be waterproof. You should never take it off. And when you do, you only do so to charge it (or change the battery), then immediately put it back on. You sleep with it. Otherwise, what's the point? Any device you have to take off and put back on multiple times a day is a terrible life-saving device because, inevitable, you will forgot to put it back on sometimes. The Apple Watch is ill suited on many levels for what he describes.

Details, details. No, I'm right there with you on that. I think it's a great idea for a product, but might not be a product that Apple makes, because Apple is trying to make the Watch be more than that and unfortunately all the things they think we need in a Watch are eating up battery life.

 

[robbyx]

I agree. The important part is the intention of the product. You use an iPhone/iPad for many of the same purposes as a PC.

But I believe Steve was making a more accurate distinction: that limited products like the iPad could cover most of the tasks PCs are used for, hence the comparison to cars vs trucks. Steve was being specific; the PC is a truck. So while they're both transportation machines, and you can do similar things with them, they do not replace each other.

I don't think Steve meant to imply that "Post-PC" meant PCs are no longer necessary at all. I think he meant that now the majority of users weren't forced to have them in order to perform the tasks he perceived to be typical in PC use: Email, photos, video, music, web-browsing.

I could go on a trip and only use my phone now for things that used to require a PC, hence the "Post-PC" era.

I totally agree with your assessment of Steve's comments. The car/truck comparison works and will continue to work for the foreseeable future. But one day that metaphor will break down. It's all about performance when it comes to technology. With cars and trucks, it's about real world needs and limitations. While cars and trucks both move people, it is simply impossible to put a couch in a compact sedan.

When my iPhone offers the performance and storage capability of my MacBook, then it can replace it. But we're a long way from that. So both devices are still needed, despite a growing overlap in capabilities.

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Details, details. No, I'm right there with you on that. I think it's a great idea for a product, but might not be a product that Apple makes, because Apple is trying to make the Watch be more than that and unfortunately all the things they think we need in a Watch are eating up battery life.

The Apple Watch is NOT a medical device. It's a piece of high tech jewelry. People need to be realistic about its capabilities. I think a lot of people will find themselves somewhat underwhelmed when it finally arrives. Some people have rather lofty expectations of what it will do and what kind if features we'll see in near-future generations of the product.

 

[oliversl]

These depth Bio info about Apples VPs does not help. Whats the point behind exposing Jony or others to the media?

 

[IJ Reilly]

The Apple Watch is NOT a medical device. It's a piece of high tech jewelry. People need to be realistic about its capabilities. I think a lot of people will find themselves somewhat underwhelmed when it finally arrives. Some people have rather lofty expectations of what it will do and what kind if features we'll see in near-future generations of the product.

From my reading here, the expectations are actually rock-bottom, so the surprise will be mainly on the upside. On the one hand (so to speak) are the watch snobs, who believe that if it isn't huge bling that it won't interest anybody. On the other is the "nobody but old people wear watches" crowd. Both are predicting Product:Fail for completely contradictory reasons that reflect only their narrow view of the world. It's more likely that they will both be wrong. Not that history is any guide, of course. We wouldn't want to learn anything from that.

 

[melendezest]

I totally agree with your assessment of Steve's comments. The car/truck comparison works and will continue to work for the foreseeable future. But one day that metaphor will break down. It's all about performance when it comes to technology. With cars and trucks, it's about real world needs and limitations. While cars and trucks both move people, it is simply impossible to put a couch in a compact sedan.

When my iPhone offers the performance and storage capability of my MacBook, then it can replace it. But we're a long way from that. So both devices are still needed, despite a growing overlap in capabilities.

Haha, yes. That'll NEVER happen for me. I'll always want that truck.

The iPad, iPhone, MBA and MBP now come with 128GB storage. So Apple is speeding towards convergence pretty quickly. It seems they're trying to only make cars and huge DUMP TRUCKS. They've exited the pickup-truck market.

I got my new, refurbished 2012 15" MBP Hi-res on Friday because of this, and couldn't be happier. I summarily removed the optical drive and 750GB 5400rpm drive and installed two 1TB 7200 rpm drives in RAID 0. I then cloned my family's 2011 iMac (using Thunderbolt).

Boom.

Portable iMac #2 (I also have a 2011 17"). No dongles necessary. All data/applications (1.6TB so far) for a family of 7 fully backed-up. Fully upgradeable (with more RAM, SSDs, more storage, etc). Now I have to figure out how to keep them synced, but iCloud helps with some of that. I'm actually thinking of selling the iMac and getting another 15 if I can find it or the 13" non-Retina MBP, before Apple discontinues it too.

Try that with a "post-pc" device (which I consider the crippled Apple portables to be now). Yea, you can't.

 

[robbyx]

From my reading here, the expectations are actually rock-bottom, so the surprise will be mainly on the upside. On the one hand (so to speak) are the watch snobs, who believe that if it isn't huge bling that it won't interest anybody. On the other is the "nobody but old people wear watches" crowd. Both are predicting Product:Fail for completely contradictory reasons that reflect only their narrow view of the world. It's more likely that they will both be wrong. Not that history is any guide, of course. We wouldn't want to learn anything from that.

History Shmistory! I see rather polarized points of views, but I do see some seriously unrealistic expectations being floated quite frequently on sites like this. The biggest of these is that "because Apple hasn't told us everything", there's some amazing über-cool feature they've been hiding this whole time. Then I see people coming up with ideas like monitoring your heart rate and alerting EMS in an emergency. While this is a great product idea, the Apple Watch is so far from being a true medical device. And anyone who understands technology well can see that it would be many, many generations before the Apple Watch could be that device (not to mention the liability associated with being responsible for alerting EMS...).

And then we have Morgan Stanley (I think) predicting 25 millions units sold in the first year. Really? The entire wearables market last year was around 5 million units. Apple is going to single-handedly sell 5x that many watches the first year? I've seen some people on these forums suggest 40+ million units. So I do think some people have pretty crazy unrealistic expectations.

 

[melendezest]

Ive needs to be front and centre of the Apple University (or whatever they call it) getting Apple ready for his one day retirement. Jobs you can not replace directly but Apple survived pretty well post Jobs. Post Ive will be a totally different thing. We don't want another Ive exactly but people working with the spirit and knowledge of Ive within them is what Apple needs. Not to ask what would Ive do. But to have the same thought process and way of looking at things as Ive did so even more great Apple products can be made post Ive's retirement.

I sincerely hope not. I believe that Ive and Jobs were symbiotic. Steve's absence shows how inferior Ive is when he's on his own, like the musician that leaves his band and makes a solo album that is not as good as the band's material.

I can't wait for him to be replaced.

Particularly on the software-design side of things.

But it won't happen. Sadly (at least for me).

 

[robbyx]

Try that with a "post-pc" device (which I consider the crippled Apple portables to be now). Yea, you can't.

Not yet. But it will happen. Give it another decade or so.

 

[LizKat]

Gotta love this part of the profile where the author is with Ive and Cook:

We were in a conference room at One Infinite Loop, a few doors from Jobs’s old office, and I noticed that, at this moment in the history of personal technology, Cook still uses notifications in the form of a young woman appearing silently from nowhere to hold a sheet of paper in his line of sight.

A young woman, right. Heh. Ian Parker (the profile author) apparently didn’t even recognize what a scoop he had there. That was actually Siri 4.0, passing her beta test.

The Apple Watch sounds great but definitely keep an eye out for the Siri updates.

 

[robbyx]

I sincerely hope not. I believe that Ive and Jobs were symbiotic. Steve's absence shows how inferior Ive is when he's on his own, like the musician that leaves his band and makes a solo album that is not as good as the band's material.

I can't wait for him to be replaced.

Particularly on the software-design side of things.

But it won't happen. Sadly (at least for me).

I agree more or less. The solo artist putting out a mediocre album after leaving the band is a spot on analogy. Like you, I think it really shows on the software side. I remain quite enamored of Apple's hardware, but iOS7 was ugly and while I'm now used to it, I still think it's ugly. And, more importantly, it's often not intuitive. I find the Yosemite UI a bit garish, but it's still OS X, more or less. For now. I fear for when he really gives it an overhaul.

 

[viorelgn]

Steve was a face of Apple for his endless influence on the tech world – I think Apple is searching for that face again. Tim is a brilliant CEO, but even as described in the article its product remembering that is associated with someone great is what stick with consumers. Since Tim is not a product guy he cannot fit that role. Ive is that guy, but he is opposite to Jobs in regards to being publicly visible. It looks to me that Apple PR decided to push his persona through this New Yorker’s piece. It is particularly important now as Apple Watch is looming. Think about products that Steve introduced – his persona alone drove masses of people to but them, even when competitors were offering something similar. But you got to have a product conceived by Jobs. Right now many are uncertain about smart watch as category, so Apple needs a persona to sell Apple Watch to masses. Its like the best designer in the world conceived it – it must be special kind of thinking.

 

[IJ Reilly]

History Shmistory! I see rather polarized points of views, but I do see some seriously unrealistic expectations being floated quite frequently on sites like this. The biggest of these is that "because Apple hasn't told us everything", there's some amazing über-cool feature they've been hiding this whole time. Then I see people coming up with ideas like monitoring your heart rate and alerting EMS in an emergency. While this is a great product idea, the Apple Watch is so far from being a true medical device. And anyone who understands technology well can see that it would be many, many generations before the Apple Watch could be that device (not to mention the liability associated with being responsible for alerting EMS...).

And then we have Morgan Stanley (I think) predicting 25 millions units sold in the first year. Really? The entire wearables market last year was around 5 million units. Apple is going to single-handedly sell 5x that many watches the first year? I've seen some people on these forums suggest 40+ million units. So I do think some people have pretty crazy unrealistic expectations.

I read, so I know the negative comments far, far outweigh the positive ones (and the critics divide roughly into the two camps). Even on an Apple forum like this one, where the audience is far more friendly than it should be in general. Yet, this is hardly surprising. It just repeats a familiar pattern. If you listen to what people say here, every recent Apple product should have failed, or has failed (despite selling millions).

The Apple Watch doesn't need to have any hidden "uber-cool" feature that we don't know about to be a successful product. The obvious point being, nobody outside of Apple has actually used one, at least not anyone who is allowed to speak about it. As with every other Apple product I can recall, the connection is made through actual use, not guesswork before the fact. I shouldn't have to reel off any examples. They are also too obvious.

It isn't a medical device, and isn't being marketed as one.

Predictions for sales? Who cares, really? I could see Apple easily outselling the entire current market in this category, if only because the current products in this category are pretty lame and Apple has a larger market presence than all of their competitors combined. Redefining a category. Hmm. They've never done that before, have they?

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

People do not buy Apple products because they are hip or cool or a fashion accessory even though it might seem so. People buy Apple products because they believe they need them and their lives are incomplete without them. The Apple Watch does not do this yet. Not in product design or in Apple's marketing of it. Maybe in the future it will.

All the people who spend $1K to over $2K to browse the Internet and read email would be a good counter argument. When iPod was new, I heard a salesperson tell a customer it would get them dates. Watch is very much going to satisfy a want. I hope it can do more than is apparent now. I like gadgets and I want it but not for the price. The fashion aspect does not fill the gap for me. Maybe in the future the want will trump the spend. Not now.

 

[robbyx]

I read, so I know the negative comments far, far outweigh the positive ones (and the critics divide roughly into the two camps). Even on an Apple forum like this one, where the audience is far more friendly than it should be in general. Yet, this is hardly surprising. It just repeats a familiar pattern. If you listen to what people say here, every recent Apple product should have failed, or has failed (despite selling millions).

The Apple Watch doesn't need to have any hidden "uber-cool" feature that we don't know about to be a successful product. The obvious point being, nobody outside of Apple has actually used one, at least not anyone who is allowed to speak about it. As with every other Apple product I can recall, the connection is made through actual use, not guesswork before the fact. I shouldn't have to reel off any examples. They are also too obvious.

It isn't a medical device, and isn't being marketed as one.

Predictions for sales? Who cares, really? I could see Apple easily outselling the entire current market in this category, if only because the current products in this category are pretty lame and Apple has a larger market presence than all of their competitors combined. Redefining a category. Hmm. They've never done that before, have they?

Well, if you think about, they've only really been successful twice and that has only been in the past decade or so. I've been buying their stuff for over 30 years. They were always very successful in bringing great new ideas to the table and executing a much better product, but they were always a niche player. Until the iPod. And with that and later the iPhone, they definitely redefined those categories. No doubt.

Expectations matter a lot if you're invested in the stock. You can dismiss sales predictions, but they do matter. With analysts floating crazy expectations and Tim talking about how he can't live without it every chance he gets, the product has to perform well. And while it's not being marketed as a medical device, it is being marketed as a health device. I see people reading far more into that than they should. Not to mention everyone who expects it to become a stand-alone device and its own platform. But I would agree that there are far more skeptics than believers out there at the moment, but I don't think that = negative.

 

[GerritV]

Somehow, after having seen Yosemite (as in: not installed), I seem to care less and less for what Ive has to say

 

[rowspaxe]

They've already shown the internals as what appears to be a modular piece. Like any watch, it will have to be serviceable.

But i think--and i am not saying your wrong, neccessarily--the theme in mobile devices has been less and less servicability. So yes, an ipad is likely less serviceable than a traditional watch, and i would expect the apple watch to be even less serviceable

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I agree more or less. The solo artist putting out a mediocre album after leaving the band is a spot on analogy. Like you, I think it really shows on the software side. I remain quite enamored of Apple's hardware, but iOS7 was ugly and while I'm now used to it, I still think it's ugly. And, more importantly, it's often not intuitive. I find the Yosemite UI a bit garish, but it's still OS X, more or less. For now. I fear for when he really gives it an overhaul.

I've scheduled you for re-education at the genius bar. How can anyone think an os leveraging the pastel palette of rainbow brite is "ugly".

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The Apple Watch doesn't need to have any hidden "uber-cool" feature that we don't know about to be a successful product. The obvious point being, nobody outside of Apple has actually used one, at least not anyone who is allowed to speak about it. As with every other Apple product I can recall, the connection is made through actual use, not guesswork before the fact.

Do you really believe that? When I first saw a unibody aluminum macbook pro i concluded immediately it was a brilliant design. Similary, it was clear within minutes what the implications were of the iphone and ipad. Apple watch apologists are in some sort of fantasy land where the release product will have some heretofore undisclosed feature--or that after 2 weeks of face tapping and crown spinning the watch will reveal some new utility. Delusional

 

[rp2011]

He will stay as long as he can. Nowhere else would he be paid as much as as he is at Apple despite some very questionable design decisions.

When he decides to leave, it won't be because of money that's for sure. And if he does leave I don't see him working the grindstone ever again. It will be to rest LIVE and enjoy.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Well, if you think about, they've only really been successful twice and that has only been in the past decade or so. I've been buying their stuff for over 30 years. They were always very successful in bringing great new ideas to the table and executing a much better product, but they were always a niche player. Until the iPod. And with that and later the iPhone, they definitely redefined those categories. No doubt.

Expectations matter a lot if you're invested in the stock. You can dismiss sales predictions, but they do matter. With analysts floating crazy expectations and Tim talking about how he can't live without it every chance he gets, the product has to perform well. And while it's not being marketed as a medical device, it is being marketed as a health device. I see people reading far more into that than they should. Not to mention everyone who expects it to become a stand-alone device and its own platform. But I would agree that there are far more skeptics than believers out there at the moment, but I don't think that = negative.

Three times. Don't forget the iPad. It wasn't the first tablet computer by any means, just the first one that anyone actually wanted to own. Not that it wasn't widely dismissed on its introduction, and even after. It was just a big iPod, remember?

I'm invested in the stock, and have been for a very long time. It's hardly that I don't care how many watches Apple sells, but somehow I've managed to remain a longtime investor without worrying too much about analysts' predictions. I try to look at this from 5,000 feet up. Apple's market position gives them huge mindshare, and that turns into leverage. That's the big picture. I'll leave the weeds to those who enjoy the view from there.

Huge difference between a "health" and a "medical" device. Immense. Then again I point to leverage. The big picture.

Tim Cook talking it up is something I expect (though, seriously, somebody please get the man a thesaurus). Still nobody flinched when Steve talked up Apple products in much more colorful and hyperbolic terms than Tim Cook seems to know.

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Do you really believe that? When I first saw a unibody aluminum macbook pro i concluded immediately it was a brilliant design. Similary, it was clear within minutes what the implications were of the iphone and ipad. Apple watch apologists are in some sort of fantasy land where the release product will have some heretofore undisclosed feature--or that after 2 weeks of face tapping and crown spinning the watch will reveal some new utility. Delusional

No I don't believe it, I just said it for affect.

What I said, though, not what you said.

 

[doelcm82]

When I first saw a unibody aluminum macbook pro i concluded immediately it was a brilliant design. Similary, it was clear within minutes what the implications were of the iphone and ipad. Apple watch apologists are in some sort of fantasy land where the release product will have some heretofore undisclosed feature--or that after 2 weeks of face tapping and crown spinning the watch will reveal some new utility. Delusional

This could also mean that you're losing your touch. There were plenty of people on that old thread about the iPod who were long-time Mac users. What was Steve Jobs thinking?!! This thing will never sell! Plenty of iPhone users didn't see the point of an iPad. And they really liked their iPhones, so how could they be wrong about the iPad? There were plenty of long-time iPhone users who thought Apple was crazy to increase discontinue the 4" (or the 3.5") iPhone in favor of the bigger iPhone 6 and 6 plus.

It could be that you are the one who is delusional. Maybe just this once.

Here's the big question: If you are wrong about the Apple Watch and it turns out to be a huge success ($20 million + sold) or even just a modest success (5 or 10 million sold), will you be honest with yourself on the next Apple product announcement and say that your predictions are not 100% reliable?

 

[melendezest]

Somehow, after having seen Yosemite (as in: not installed), I seem to care less and less for what Ive has to say

I feel you, brother (sister?).

I went ahead and installed it anyway though, because some of it's functionality and integration with other Apple devices is still better than the third-party alternatives. My primary problem with Yosemite (and iOS 7/8) is the skin.

Now I'm used to it, but I don't like a lot of it.

Still, the dark mode is nice, and I wish it extended further than what they set up.

 

[doelcm82]

Tim Cook talking it up is something I expect (though, seriously, somebody please get the man a thesaurus). Still nobody flinched when Steve talked up Apple products in much more colorful and hyperbolic terms than Tim Cook seems to know.

Lots of people flinched at Steve Jobs' rhetoric. Many of his quotes (or paraphrases of them) were immediately used to ridicule Apple products or Apple users. Whenever anything goes wrong, you're likely to see a bunch of posters trying to be first to say "It just works," or "magical" or "You're holding it wrong."

Steve was Tim before Tim got the job, and when Steve held the job, he was the target for the kind of people who like to make people into targets.