Jony Ive: Apple Pencil Will Not 'Replace the Finger as a Point of Interface'

[Even Longer]

Of course - a trackpad on iOS would require an extensive change or re-design in the OS.

I think your implication is that iOS works better with touch, because it's designed for it.


But with Tim now touting it as a replacement for "a PC," he's essentially saying a touch screen is appropriate for a PC running "PC applications" (whatever those are). He almost had to use the nebulous term "PC" here, lest he get himself into more trouble.

Sure. Forget his marketing bla-blah, - all of us will know exactly, when iOS reaches that kind of maturity (if ever). We won't need his preaches for that.

I think: desktop programs will make a step towards touch-based OS's like iOS and iOS will have to make a step - not towards desktop user experience, but towards more desktop functionality, like filesystem access and such.

 

[califlorida]

sounds great... now it'd be nice for it to eventually arrive so I can try for myself.

 

[JustThinkin']

It makes a lot of sense, particularly if you're going to replace a PC for lots of people. The default pointer on the PC was the mouse, on an iPad it's your finger. And that's plenty for most people. I've used a Wacom tablet for almost two decades because I've required more precision for graphic and illustration work. As usual, the applications on the iPad just need to catch up. I'm hopeful they will.

There really is no reason why the iPad, in time, shouldn't be able to replace a PC for almost everyone (not just "most"). What would be needed is A) for people to really figure out what their job is – not the series of tasks they perform or processes they follow, but their honest-to-goodness output and B) for software developers to make apps that are flexible enough or custom enough for people to get their output better.

Andreessen Horowitz analyst Benedict Evans has had some great thoughts on this. A strategist's job isn't to put together charts and graphs; there are dashboards that do that stuff now. Their job is to derive meaning from those dashboards. The thinking stuff, and there's no reason a tablet shouldn't be every bit as effective as a PC for that. If your job is to check people onto their flights, your job isn't to type a bunch of stuff in, it's to make sure people get to where they want to go. It feels like software developers are mostly making touch versions of legacy applications – software so large and broad that it optimizes on volume rather than being the best tool for the individual.

I feel like the missing piece is many more smaller teams of app development companies that are creating lower cost ad hoc tablet software for specific individual businesses – everything from food trucks to corner stores to teachers, shipment companies, hairdressers, etc. What's needed is to know PRECISELY what people need and to focus on the best UX for their outcome. Not so they feel busy or effective but so they actually are.

Maybe what's missing is something like hypercard so these businesses can get part of the way themselves without having to learn Swift.

I wholeheartedly agree with your idea (and I think Steve would have too) that we shouldn't be trying to squeeze new technology into an old paradigm. The idea is to create tools that get the job(s) done. So we imagine how the tool ought to work, then leverage technology to come as close as we can to that ideal.

One minor point - I don't think every task or job comes down to output. For example, in education learning is an end in itself. Sometimes we produce output along the way, but the real fruit is how we gain understanding, knowledge, or skills, as well as how this may spark new ideas or invention. Hopefully we can apply some of this learning down the road, or pass it on to someone else.

 

[TechGod]

Yet after four attempts, they keep trying.

And each generation gets ever closer to perfection. I'd argue the Surface Pro 4 is already perfect.

 

[JustThinkin']

And each generation gets ever closer to perfection. I'd argue the Surface Pro 4 is already perfect.

Ha Ha Ha, your standards are way too low. There's been no perfect product from Microsoft or Apple - ever!

Perhaps you can design a perfect can opener - that's about it! (As many of us know, someone almost did ~20+ years ago. It's non-electric and opens most cans at about "half-speed" with minimal effort.)

 

[TechGod]

Ha Ha Ha, your standards are way too low. There's been no perfect product from Microsoft or Apple - ever!

Perhaps you can design a perfect can opener - that's about it!

I meant in the context that while it's not perfect it's pretty close.

 

[niun]

The Pro is going to be quite the revolution for pro audio and DJ software.

And it looks poised to replace the current tools in drawing and design: why stare at the pc screen when you can actually see what you're drawing under the Pencil? And with less latency?

People are grossly underestimating the iPad Pro.

Software? You mean apps.
Apps that will run on all other iPads.

I don't know anyone that has stared at a screen whilst drawing for years. Cintiq, Surface. Hell, a pencil and paper is still pretty much the norm with no latency and a fraction of the cost.

People are rightly seeing the iPad Pro for what it is. An incredibly expensive iPad where Apple are very reluctantly admitting that a stylus was always going to beat a finger for certain tasks.

 

[JustThinkin']

I meant in the context that while it's not perfect it's pretty close.

I agree - they've come pretty close within the paradigm.

The problem is that the paradigm is so imperfect.

 

[Renzatic]

So what makes touchscreen navigation on the iPad Pro ergonomic when it has a keyboard docked like shown above?

You're doing it on a product I like, instead of one I don't. That makes it awesome.

 

[OS-Newb]

Software? You mean apps.
Apps that will run on all other iPads.

I don't know anyone that has stared at a screen whilst drawing for years. Cintiq, Surface. Hell, a pencil and paper is still pretty much the norm with no latency and a fraction of the cost.

People are rightly seeing the iPad Pro for what it is. An incredibly expensive iPad where Apple are very reluctantly admitting that a stylus was always going to beat a finger for certain tasks.

Don't "correct" people for calling apps software. That's ridiculous. Apps ARE software. People can use whatever terms they like.

 

[sw1tcher]

Didn't Apple at one point say touchscreen navigation on Surface like tablets is unergonomic and people should not be reaching up from the keyboard to touch the screen to navigate? So what makes touchscreen navigation on the iPad Pro ergonomic when it has a keyboard docked like shown above?

It's ergonomic on the iPad Pro because it's being done on an Apple product. If it's not an Apple product, you're always doing it wrong.

 

[robbyx]

A pencil is precision ...a finger is not... unless u first zoom in an awful lot, and even then it may be impossible.

Fingers and pencil go hand in hand.. and i still have issues with hybrid...

Exactly. Some people just don't get it. The pencil is NOT a stylus. It's a drawing tool. And a very very nice one at that. I tried it the other day at an Apple Store and was most impressed. While it can be used to tap buttons, open apps, scroll, etc., like a stylus, it really isn't designed for any of that, nor will the user want to use it that way. It's a pencil. It's for drawing on the screen, taking hand written notes, etc. The lady next to me at the store was an artist and had drawn a very cool image with it. She was loving it. The iPad Pro is too big for me. When they release a smaller iPad that supports the Pencil, I will definitely upgrade. I tried a number of styluses for the iPad for note taking and they all sucked. With the Pencil, I felt like I was writing on paper. Very impressive product.

 

[ksuyen]

Good thing Apple sent out the experts to tell us the obvious. People who buy it will use it for drawing and interface if they find it convenient. Or not.

Exactly.

Basically what he said: "You don't have to buy the pencil for iPad Pro, it's an option, peep!"

 

[apolloa]

You vaguely mention hipocresy, care to elaborate.

I shouldn't have to!

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

It never could.

 

[robbyx]

People are rightly seeing the iPad Pro for what it is. An incredibly expensive iPad where Apple are very reluctantly admitting that a stylus was always going to beat a finger for certain tasks.

I don't think Apple ever said that writing notes on the iPad is better done with a finger than a stylus. They were, and remain, opposed to the idea that a stylus is necessary for interacting with the UI. The Galaxy Note probably got them thinking about Pencil, along with all the mediocre third part iPad styluses. It became obvious to them that some people want to write or draw on the screen and that such actions required a specific tool. Not a stylus. Hence the Pencil.

I personally see the iPad Pro as an enterprise play. The added screen real estate will appeal to business users, especially for custom apps. I develop and maintain a FileMaker Pro database. We've been talking about building a mobile interface, but the iPad's smaller screen size is restrictive. Our system is complex and takes advantage of larger screens on the desktop. Making the UI work on an iPad has been challenging. The Pro changes that. I imagine a lot of enterprise customers will jump at the Pro for custom apps.

I also think the Pro is a laptop replacement for a lot of people. I'm not wild about the new keyboard cover. I think the Pro needs a proper dock with a real keyboard. The biggest problem is storage. You can't get an iPad Pro with 1TB of storage for all your pictures and movies. Yet. But...if you don't have huge storage requirements and use your computer for emailing, web surfing, listening to music, basic consumer-level photo editing, etc., the Pro is more than sufficient and far less complicated than a MacBook.

 

[Rogifan]

The Pro is going to be quite the revolution for pro audio and DJ software.

And it looks poised to replace the current tools in drawing and design: why stare at the pc screen when you can actually see what you're drawing under the Pencil? And with less latency?

People are grossly underestimating the iPad Pro.

I was at two Apple stores today and they said they're selling iPPs and Pencils as fast as they can get them in.

 

[elmaco]

Stylus! Stylus! Stylus!

 

[satchmo]

So, I have to use my finger to open an app or scroll…. and then pick up the Pencil® when I need to draw or write something, and then put the Pencil® down somewhere and use my finger(s) again for pinching and what-not. Sounds like a Fail to me.

Not sure why Apple chose to have some items Pencil enabled while others not.
That said, how difficult is it to touch while holding a pencil, with the other hand or even with the same hand?

 

[maxsix]

Apple said, it is unergonomic on the Desktop, never on iOS.
Big difference here, I think.

Steve Jobs wasn't standing on the desktop, but instead he was perched on the stage while making grandiose statements to his adoring worshippers.

 

[ke-iron]

Didn't Apple at one point say touchscreen navigation on Surface like tablets is unergonomic and people should not be reaching up from the keyboard to touch the screen to navigate? So what makes touchscreen navigation on the iPad Pro ergonomic when it has a keyboard docked like shown above?

The way it is shown above will not be used for extensive period. When in this mode with the keyboard connected it's primarily typing mode. Without keyboard is everything else mode.

With a desktop it's different. Your desktop is always in the upright position regardless of what you're doing. So you don't want to be looking at pictures and surfing the web by reaching up at the screen and constantly touching and swiping because your arm will just get tired really fast.

 

[archimonde]

So, I have to use my finger to open an app or scroll…. and then pick up the Pencil® when I need to draw or write something, and then put the Pencil® down somewhere and use my finger(s) again for pinching and what-not. Sounds like a Fail to me. (Also, please note the Apple Pencil® is perfectly rounded, and will roll off whatever surface you lay it on. Most real drawing pencils are three-, six- or eight-sided, so they don't roll off the surface.)

How many times have you used Apple Pencil so far on an iPad? Zero, why? because every single app has been designed for multitouch. Just because Apple releases a Pencil doesn't mean now all the apps will have Pencil recognition (unlike 3D touch). As in, Spotify isn't going to have any need for pencils, or the Netflix app, etc. You won't need Pencil to use iPad/Pro. For specific apps that utilize Pencil, such as sketching/note programs or keynotes and layouts, you stay on those programs for hours not minutes at a time, meaning you have the pencil in your hand the whole time. It's not that different than to the way we use pencils now and how we can flip pages in textbooks without having to put the pencil down on the table.

 

[Mainsail]

I just got back from messing around with the iPad Pro at the Apple store, and I kept thinking this damn thing is just too big. A touch first OS makes sense on a device you are holding because your hands/fingers are already on or near the screen. I just don't see how most people are going to hold the Pro for extended periods of time. It's really not just the weight. It's the awkward size and dimensions.....very cumbersome to hold and simultaneously navigate with touch.

In addition, based upon reviews, the iPad Pro with keyboard cover is very awkward to use on the lap. So, now you have a device that is both cumbersome to hold and not very "lapable". For a mobile device that uses a mobile OS, this is a bit disconcerting, given these are the two common use scenarios. I think the pencil is getting a lot of consideration as the primary input mechanism because folks are trying to find an alternate way to use this giant tablet that makes sense. But, Jony tells use it is a touch first device....so we come full circle...trying to effectively use touch on a device that is inherently difficult to hold.

Perhaps, a third party vendor will create a case (which also includes pencil storage btw) that solves this dilemma.....and there will be yet another accessory to be purchase.

 

[GoodWheaties]

This is a little off topic, but has anyone tried using the Pencil on an Air 2 or Mini 4? I know they don't officially support it but I'm curious if they unofficially support it

 

[ksuyen]

So, I have to use my finger to open an app or scroll…. and then pick up the Pencil® when I need to draw or write something, and then put the Pencil® down somewhere and use my finger(s) again for pinching and what-not. Sounds like a Fail to me. (Also, please note the Apple Pencil® is perfectly rounded, and will roll off whatever surface you lay it on. Most real drawing pencils are three-, six- or eight-sided, so they don't roll off the surface.)

No, no, no. This is not the product failure, this is an interpretation failure (your interpretation), a fail in your way of thinking that you need "both" hand and pencil in order to operate iPad Pro. Also, your note is totally wrong. Please note (rightly) that the Apple Pencil is not a perfect round, they don't roll off the surface, they stop exactly where the word "pencil" is pointing up.