Jony Ive: Apple Pencil Will Not 'Replace the Finger as a Point of Interface'

[samcraig]

Sorry, I had to work with what you gave me - a really non-smart comment to begin with. Does someone like you complain about the "Samsung S-Pen" or "Microsoft's Surface Pen" misleading people as a "'pen' technically isn't a brush or marker or ... bla. bla. bla."?

I've commented on those names. I never said it was misleading. I said it was limiting.

And no you didn't have to work with what I gave you. You could have ignored my comment and simply gone to the next post - something I'll be sure and do if you reply to this one.

Bla bla bla indeed.

 

[tardegrade]

What a load of waffle. All Jony Ive needed to say was this.

"The best way to use a mobile phone or tablet is with your fingers using multi touch. It's brilliant and it works better than any other input method. In fact if your mobile phone uses a stylus as it's primary input method then you are doing it wrong.

But we also know that to do art stuff properly you need the precision of a stylus. We want the iPad Pro to be used for art stuff. So we made a great stylus. In fact it's the best one there is."

Really that is all he needed to say.

 

[dec.]

I've commented on those names. I never said it was misleading. I said it was limiting.

And no you didn't have to work with what I gave you. You could have ignored my comment and simply gone to the next post - something I'll be sure and do if you reply to this one.

Bla bla bla indeed.

My mistake, of course - "limiting" - I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who will be using the Apple "Pencil" only when they are using a pencil tool in Photoshop, as soon as they switch to markers, brushes etc., they'll use their fingers because they assume that they can only use the "Pencil" as ...pencil . You're smart!

 

[oliversl]

People can't talk without using the word "fundamental" these days … *rolling eyes*

 

[MH01]

I agree - and to my defence: I wasn't the one blabbering on about how "painful to read" Ive's comments were.



Apple released a keyboard dock with the original iPad (obviously before the Surface RT), third party stylus were available before the Surface RT as well as were keyboard covers by Logitech & Co.. Of course you can insist on them needing to be made by Apple to make them a "Microsoft Copy" but it won't change the fact that these accessories were widely available even before the first Surface came out.

orly. I never remember Apple selling an official KB and pencil before the Ipad pro.

the original ipad KB was not portable or foldable, it was a DOCK. You know the diference between a dock and a KB that attaches like the surface one?

 

[johngordon]

I thought that was Apple's intention to being with. They sure as hell are not selling it that way.
The best they can do is say it's great for surfing the web, watching movies - debatable without a stand, and doing some doodling. Oh and it's got more speakers - this is very important for some reason when the device is only arms length away.

I've never seen such an unprofessional attitude towards a Pro product.

What does the proximity of the speaker have to do with it?

My headphones are literally next to my head - it doesn't mean they'd be OK in mono.

 

[johngordon]

I agree - and to my defence: I wasn't the one blabbering on about how "painful to read" Ive's comments were.

Apple released a keyboard dock with the original iPad (obviously before the Surface RT), third party stylus were available before the Surface RT as well as were keyboard covers by Logitech & Co.. Of course you can insist on them needing to be made by Apple to make them a "Microsoft Copy" but it won't change the fact that these accessories were widely available even before the first Surface came out.

I bet if you could be bothered, you could find images of a. A Surface, and B An original iPad with a keyboard, propped up by a smart cover. It would be uncannily similar to the image posted earlier!

 

[niun]

What does the proximity of the speaker have to do with it?

My headphones are literally next to my head - it doesn't mean they'd be OK in mono.

It's a major selling point and something that people have been harking as, "BEST THING EVER".

That's 50% extra battery space Apple sacrificed for ++ speakers.
As we know, more speakers are essential in a business or Pro environment. More battery is, Meh!

 

[johngordon]

It's a major selling point and something that people have been harking as, "BEST THING EVER".

That's 50% extra battery space Apple sacrificed for ++ speakers.
As we know, more speakers are essential in a business or Pro environment. More battery is, Meh!

I don't know the merits of each as I haven't used one.

Presumably the objective is to have both speakers and battery up to a level which is considered good enough.

They are quoting up to 10 hours battery life. Which seems pretty good. For most people that's enough for a day, and can be charged overnight.

If you sacrificed the speakers, would the advantage really be that great for most people in most cases? Arguably not.

Just because you would prefer more battery over stereo speakers, doesn't mean everyone would. That's just your subjective personal preference.

 

[mdelvecchio]

So, I have to use my finger to open an app or scroll…. and then pick up the Pencil® when I need to draw or write something, and then put the Pencil® down somewhere and use my finger(s) again for pinching and what-not. Sounds like a Fail to me. (Also, please note the Apple Pencil® is perfectly rounded, and will roll off whatever surface you lay it on. Most real drawing pencils are three-, six- or eight-sided, so they don't roll off the surface.)

do you likewise complain when you have to pick up a pen to write something down on paper? THE HORROR!

you guys try so hard to hate. it's rather sad.

 

[niun]

I don't know the merits of each as I haven't used one.

Presumably the objective is to have both speakers and battery up to a level which is considered good enough.

They are quoting up to 10 hours battery life. Which seems pretty good. For most people that's enough for a day, and can be charged overnight.

If you sacrificed the speakers, would the advantage really be that great for most people in most cases? Arguably not.

Just because you would prefer more battery over stereo speakers, doesn't mean everyone would. That's just your subjective personal preference.

Damn right it's a personal preference. I have many more. Pro Apple Apps, more ports, magnetic pencil storage.. More battery would have been a great bonus - has anyone ever complained about their iPad Air 2 speakers?

It just keeps smacking of a lazy upgrade. If you're going to call it PRO make it PRO and sell it PRO.

 

[garysang]

Technically Apple did not design or endorse those, iPad Pro's is the first "official" KB dock.

No it isnt. The first iPad had an accessory which was basically an apple keyboard with a dock connector embedded in it. It wasn't a case, but it was a KB dock.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-Keyboard-Dock-Package/dp/B0040HEMP8

 

[robbyx]

I thought that was Apple's intention to being with. They sure as hell are not selling it that way.
The best they can do is say it's great for surfing the web, watching movies - debatable without a stand, and doing some doodling. Oh and it's got more speakers - this is very important for some reason when the device is only arms length away.

I've never seen such an unprofessional attitude towards a Pro product.

But do they really need to sell it that way? Given their deal with IBM, I think their enterprise efforts are more under the radar. It's definitely being marketed to consumers, but my hunch is that they'll sell more to enterprise than individuals. I also think the focus on speakers isn't off the mark. A lot of people watch TV on the iPad. Now they have a much bigger screen and much better sounds. Make no mistake, this will appeal to many, especially college kids in their dorm rooms.

 

[robbyx]

Damn right it's a personal preference. I have many more. Pro Apple Apps, more ports, magnetic pencil storage.. More battery would have been a great bonus - has anyone ever complained about their iPad Air 2 speakers?

It just keeps smacking of a lazy upgrade. If you're going to call it PRO make it PRO and sell it PRO.

I disagree. I think the "Pro" moniker is perhaps off the mark, but what should they have called it? The iPad Maxi? It's about screen size and what that additional screen real estate makes possible. In a "pro" (ie: business) environment, the extra screen size is the selling point. Better sound is the selling point for consumers who watch TV and movies on their iPads. As for ports, that's just not the Apple way. Look at all of their devices. They are getting rid of ports. The iPad will never have ports beyond the Lightning connector. Once you start adding USB, etc., is it an iPad...or is a Mac? It completely changes the nature of the product. I don't think it's a lazy upgrade at all. I think it's very focused. Big screen for business and creative types. Great sound for media junkies. And the Pencil for everyone from artists to business users to students taking notes in class.

 

[SuperHamster]

So, I have to use my finger to open an app or scroll…. and then pick up the Pencil® when I need to draw or write something, and then put the Pencil® down somewhere and use my finger(s) again for pinching and what-not. Sounds like a Fail to me. (Also, please note the Apple Pencil® is perfectly rounded, and will roll off whatever surface you lay it on. Most real drawing pencils are three-, six- or eight-sided, so they don't roll off the surface.)

Yeah, well, that's how competing tablets work as well, as far as I know. As others have pointed out, you'll mostly stay inside a single drawing app while using the pencil (btw, why is it called Pencil and not Pen?) so your example isn't entirely relevant. Still, one does tend to run out of fingers, or hands (unless using the other hand for holding the tablet...) while drawing, and swapping between pencil and finger/whatnot is to some extent cumbersome, sure. That's even true when drawing with a real pencil on paper and you need to erase, use rulers, change pens, (sip your coffee) etctera. It's also true of other multitouch tablets. I tend to offload my pen to between my teeth, but it's really a filthy habit that I should get rid of, especially considering that an Apple Pencil could electrocute me.

More seriously though; Wacom attempts to address the issue by introducing extra buttons and stuff so that you don't have to let go of the pen as often. There are buttons on the pen itself, also an eraser, furthermore physical buttons and touch ring for pan/zoom on the side (really for your left hand). These are more convenient than using multi-touch when you have a pen in your hand, and I can really imagine Wacom sales snapping up to marketing this stuff now ...

 

[grahamperrin]

… something you should seriously read written by legendary Apple designers … And if you don't know who Don Norman and Bruce Tognazzini are …

When they speak, people listen and take them seriously.

… Anything interesting in particular that they've recently worked on?

I think so:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnorman
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-tognazzini-b42b1a72

For starters –

"Don Norman is Director of The Design Lab at the University of California, San Diego. He is cofounder of the Nielsen Norman Group, a member of the National Academy of Engineering, IDEO fellow, and former Vice President of Apple. He serves on numerous boards, helping companies make products enjoyable, understandable, and profitable. His books include Emotional Design and the Design of Everyday Things: more at www.jnd.org …"

"Bruce "Tog" Tognazzini is a principal with the Nielsen Norman Group, the "dream team" firm specializing in human-computer interaction. … 56 patents issued and additional pending in the areas of aviation, radar, eye-tracking, flat panel display information presentation, GPS, portable calendaring, etc. To view currently issued USA patents, click here.

… AskTog …"

– and so on; reasonably broad experiences.

It seems to me that they're criticizing touch based GUI principles for not being exactly like keyboard plus mouse. Seems a bit narrow minded to me.

I take a quite different view of their essay. Where @blucurv finds some narrow-mindnedness, I find breadth.

The essay is not exclusively about iOS. Some of what's written resonates with some of what I wrote under Visionary Apple approaches to Mac OS X: past, present and future, the opening argument in particular:

… Apple no longer has a single, clear, shared vision for OS X.…​

Norman and Tognazzini:

… Good user experience can only flow from a system where marketing, graphic and industrial design, engineering, and usability all work together in a collaborative effort to make life better, more enjoyable, and more productive for Apple’s customers.

Design is a complex field, with many separate subdisciplines. Industrial design is primarily concerned with materials and form, and this is the area in which Apple excels. …

Apple’s design process has become unbalanced.…

 

[niun]

I disagree. I think the "Pro" moniker is perhaps off the mark, but what should they have called it? The iPad Maxi?

iPad Plus would have been fitting.
Oh and I very much doubt we'll see Apple cull ports from their actual Pro lineup anytime soon.

Sorry I should have said that EVERYTHING about Apple now appears lazy and complacent - and has for some years.

 

[maflynn]

A little late to the thread, but I think this is one of the design mistakes that Apple is making. Its too easy to have the pencil in hand and you want to scroll or move around. Now you have to put it down and use your finger as opposed to the pencil. Seems like extra work that can be viewed as disruptive to the efficiencies people want in such a product.

 

[spinedoc77]

I'm glad Apple makes good design decisions instead of adding garbage like a mouse or trying to converge two devices not meant for it. Microsoft could stand to learn a few things

"Adding garbage like a mouse..." Wow, just had to read that one twice.

 

[dec.]

orly. I never remember Apple selling an official KB and pencil before the Ipad pro.

the original ipad KB was not portable or foldable, it was a DOCK. You know the diference between a dock and a KB that attaches like the surface one?

Oh ok, so now it has to be from the same manufacturer to be recognized... ooooooook.

 

[robbyx]

iPad Plus would have been fitting.
Oh and I very much doubt we'll see Apple cull ports from their actual Pro lineup anytime soon.

Sorry I should have said that EVERYTHING about Apple now appears lazy and complacent - and has for some years.

Maybe not cull, but they've clearly simplified and standardized. The iPad is never going to see USB or Thunderbolt and those are pretty much the only ports Apple machines offer today. I guess Ethernet too.

What are you expecting from Apple? I don't think Apple products have been particularly exciting as of late, but I don't think anyone else's have been either. The entire industry has plateaued. Everything these days is iterative and incremental, not revolutionary. I think a lot of people just have unrealistic expectations of constantly being wowed. No one is wowing these days.

 

[MH01]

Oh ok, so now it has to be from the same manufacturer to be recognized... ooooooook.

Geez.... Having the OS support those accessories like the iPad PRO does makes a huge difference in it being a "PRO" eh from the Same manufacturer

Can you tell the difference between an iPad Air 2 and an iPad pro? I'm sure u can get a 3rd party "stylus' and Kb for the air 2....

Let's safe ourselves lots of wasted posts and you having to reference the apple Newton. Ooooooooook

 

[niun]

Maybe not cull, but they've clearly simplified and standardized. The iPad is never going to see USB or Thunderbolt and those are pretty much the only ports Apple machines offer today. I guess Ethernet too.

What are you expecting from Apple? I don't think Apple products have been particularly exciting as of late, but I don't think anyone else's have been either. The entire industry has plateaued. Everything these days is iterative and incremental, not revolutionary. I think a lot of people just have unrealistic expectations of constantly being wowed. No one is wowing these days.

I'm clearly expecting too much. I think that is the real issue.
Every time I'm in California I think it's going to be something at least a little exciting and every time I leave incredibly disappointed.
Not just by the products but the keynotes have become so stale, smug and boring.
When I watched the MS keynote I was blown away by the energy and passion.

 

[satchmo]

Not just by the products but the keynotes have become so stale, smug and boring.
When I watched the MS keynote I was blown away by the energy and passion.

10-15 years ago, it was the other way around. It's usually the 'underdog' that tries harder.
Plus I think many product leaks (whether deliberate or not), have pretty much killed the wow factor at keynotes. Further to that, IMO 'wows' have been few and far under current leadership at Apple.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

His books include Emotional Design and the Design of Everyday Things: more at www.jnd.org …"

I've seen these books at the bookstore here and came close to buying them even though they're on my wish list. I'm always fascinated by the process of thinking in design especially with these books, so I speak from a background in illustration and design. An old friend of mine studied in Industrial Design years ago and has been going around the industry for years and eventually got a job at Apple recently. I won't say his name because he just started, out of respect.

I was blown away by their essay, agreeing with a lot of the principles they brought up and am going to check out your link on your views as well. Should be great food for thought .