Jony Ive "hears" your macbook criticism

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by The Samurai, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. The Samurai, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

    The Samurai macrumors 68000

    The Samurai

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    #1
  2. Elcompa macrumors member

    Elcompa

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    #2
    Good find! I guess we will se if the nesacary improvements are made in 2018. Although I somehow don't think they could/would get them all rectified in the next 6 monts i.e. magsafe. I fear that is gone for good.
     
  3. Miss_Mac macrumors member

    Miss_Mac

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    #3
    Thank you for posting. Let's see what 2018 brings.
     
  4. Naimfan macrumors 601

    Naimfan

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    #4
    We can but hope it makes a difference for the better . . .
     
  5. Yvan256 macrumors 601

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    #5
    Will they really bring back any the following?
    - one or two USB 3.0 type A ports
    - the "classic" keyboard keys
    - real function keys
    - magsafe
    - upgradable RAM
    - user-accessible storage (SATA/M.2/etc)
    - user-swappable battery
    - non-glossy displays

    Because that's what most people are complaining about.
     
  6. argentum47 macrumors regular

    argentum47

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    #6
    Well, for some reason, that’s actually more worrisome to hear.

    Must.. make.. thinner..
     
  7. Yvan256 macrumors 601

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    #7
    Nobody has been asking for thinner laptops since the MacBook Air.
     
  8. Naimfan macrumors 601

    Naimfan

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    #8
    Exactly correct. The original retina was already bordering on "too thin," the new ones are over that line (at least for the 15" versions).
     
  9. loby macrumors 6502a

    loby

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    #9
    I believe those
    I believe those days are over....that technology is “old” in Apple’s mindset.

    If what I have tracked with Apple over the years about “hearing complaints”, it is about the current state of their products and how to advance what they have decided to pursue, not to go “backwards”. If apple makes a change, they are convinced the change is for the good. They only “listen” to how to improve on “their” choices instead of seeing anything they do as maybe a mistake. They are always “right” first before considering...Takes a lot for them to admit a mistake...history proves this.

    So they only “listen” if you agree first with their “improvements”. “Help us improve on the direction we decided to go...but don’t tell us that our choice was the wrong choice...we KNOW better..” They do not have ears to hear that....
     
  10. Arran macrumors 601

    Arran

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  11. SteveJUAE macrumors 68000

    SteveJUAE

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    #11
    Would you expect anyone too say any less :rolleyes:

    This is just clutching at straws and standard PR, don't hold your breath for any returns
     
  12. loby macrumors 6502a

    loby

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    #12
    Try “convincing” apple about that decision....

    I understand the “thought” about dropping the MagSafe (not saying I agree), just like “advancing” the headphone jack....(did not agree), but understand their reasoning...

    But...in “real” world usage...their decisions might not be the “best” solution...at least right now.

    The thought about eliminating the MagSafe (I believe) has to do with when you are using battery power. Why not have a port that has dual functions? Power and another function instead of JUST a MagSafe port for ONLY power? Of course I don’t agree, but...

    Conceptionally, it sounds good...but practically it does not work well, especially with MacBook Pro users who usually do power intense stuff and will use the power cord instead of being on battery. Might work with a MacBook Air or MacBook, but not for a power user who needs electricity to power (let’s say) Logic or Final Cut Pr X, Motion or Compressor etc...for long periods of time. Just the other day while “working” if I was not using a MagSafe power adapter...the laptop would have flown across the room when someone walked bye...

    Current laptops are not designed for a work environment...just “playing”

    I have a feeling that the designers now at Apple don’t need MacBook Pros anymore to do their work.

    Apple has always said that they “create for themselves..”. So all they need now is a Fancy watch to check their health or make sure they are not having a heart attack while working out or to check their cholesterol etc. If they need some type of Mac, the MacBook (maybe) now will do for them so they Can read marketing reports, or enjois to text to their grand kids.... etc. Doing serious stuff like for Pixar etc. is no longer desired... there is not a Jobs around who cares if his side projects have the computer power to do their work....so Mac pros and MacBook pros are not a priority.

    Just like the iphone etc....they are developing for their kids or grand kids so they can play with the technology, not creating for productivity anymore...
     
  13. Rkuda macrumors regular

    Rkuda

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    #13
    Apple will listen to the complaints, they will also listen to sales. Unfortunately for people who want Apple to kowtow to their demands and make a MBP in 2018 centered 2015 technology sales have much more weight than barely coherent rants.
     
  14. loby macrumors 6502a

    loby

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    #14
    If that is the case..then they will continue to press "forward" with their directives.

    From what Tim says...sales are good, so say goodbye to practicality...
     
  15. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #15
    Before I buy a new MacBook Pro I want 2 things, magsafe and a keyboard that travels.
     
  16. LincolnsiPod macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    I currently have a 2014 MBP, and I'm stunned by the poor quality of the 2017 keyboard compared to my current one after trying it out at the Apple Store. They felt shallow and very flimsy to me, almost like they were an afterthought after the rest of the laptop was reworked. I usually go on a three year upgrade cycle for my MBP, but now I'm stubbornly holding out.
     
  17. New_Mac_Smell macrumors 68000

    New_Mac_Smell

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    #17
    Before you all get carried away, remember that is a news article that hugely takes things out of context. Listen to the actual link, 43 minutes. It was a single line during a conversation about Apple Park.
     
  18. dumastudetto macrumors 68030

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    #18
    If the new MacBooks are correctly judged by their sales numbers, then they are a smash hit with consumers. I hope Apple doesn't deviate too far from what makes them the industry leaders.
     
  19. simonmet, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

    simonmet macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #19
    I don’t think many of those will or should come back but that’s not to mean they can’t have done better with the pro models.

    For example, I don’t care what “mechanism” the keyboard uses but it should not feel and sound cheap, plasticky, loud and of questionable reliability as it was with early models. I’m expecting a butterfly mechanism Gen 3 to improve things even further. I’ve said this before but something is seriously wrong with Ive’s team if the butterfly keyboard passed internal testing and feedback in its first iteration. It seems like no one dared question Ive’s anorexic vision. It was borderline unusable.

    SD cards are still used widely in digital photography and are quite popular with good reason. They are generally cheap and high capacity and you can have limitless storage in the field without needing to take a computer to sync to. If they can justify keeping it on the iMac and even upgrading it to the faster spec on the iMac Pro then why do they justify removing it on the MacBook Pro? Photographers have traditionally been one of Apple’s best markets. They never explained this.

    MagSafe. Ok I get that you can charge now on both sides but why not supply an adapter that can replicate the functionality like we’ve seen some third-party manufacturers attempt to do with mostly limited success?

    I’m fine to move on from USB-A. I never complained about that personally.

    The smaller battery was lazy and wreaks of cost-cutting. Likewise the cheaper processor without Iris Plus graphics.

    There was no particular reason to cut optical audio either. What did they possibly gain from this - a few cents a unit? Compare this to majorly disappointing certain users that like it. Optical has advantages such as the cables being cheaper over longer distances and being immune to RF interfereance.

    The smaller chassis is nice but not worth the cuts to battery life. Smaller chassis and fewer ports again suggests cost-cutting but was this passed on to consumers? Judging by the launch prices of the 2016 models I doubt it.

    Further cost-cutting: no longer supplying the extension cable. Again I don’t mind buying one if the saving was passed on to consumers but the costs went up by a large amount.

    Nobody was asking for the Touch Bar and most reviews I’ve seen say it’s not a major draw card. Some don’t even like it. Touch ID is great though. They could’ve appeased using wanting traditional function keys by offering an “Escape Edition” in all sizes and configs.
     
  20. Elcompa macrumors member

    Elcompa

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    #20
    Yep, one of the things that made a Mac exclusive, different and more user-friendly.
     
  21. leman macrumors G3

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    #21
    Thats what most of the complainers are complaining about. For actual customers these are not a problem, as evident from Mac sales development. Not to mention that the majority of customers will prefer everyday usability (such as portability and battery life) to dubious situational features like upgradeable RAM and user-replaceable battery.
     
  22. simonmet macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #22
    Just on this, I don’t think Apple has mentioned numbers in terms of units sold, only revenue. And the revenue I believe includes the 2015 models which Apple must be making a killing on considering it’s now 3 year-old tech. Apple is killing it with profit but I’d be shocked if the 2016 models outsold the 2015 model during its year of currency.

    Here’s a funny thing. When the 2016 models were released, Apple started selling a lesser version of the 2015 model for more than I paid for mine a year earlier. Remember how long they kept the Mac Pro prices ridiculously high for ancient tech? It was embarrassing.
     
  23. leman macrumors G3

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    #23
    They did. Most modern cameras have WiFi.

    The practical battery life is unchanged (or improved) from earlier generation. So whats the real issue? Apple's design goal is 8-10 hours battery life (which is an optimal value in many regards, since it gives you a full working day on a charge), and not "as much battery as possible".

    These CPUs are not practically available. I am convinced that the sole reason the 2017 refresh took so long was that Apple has waited for Intel to ramp up production of Iris Pro Skylakes. What Intel did was basically drop the Iris Pro for good, forcing Apple to implement plan "B".

    Again, there are no cuts on battery life, unless you are talking about battery life under full load, which never was (or could be) good anyway.

    These ports are the most expensive on any laptop currently shipping, since Apple is using top-tier thunderbolt controllers. If you look at ay other TB3-equipped laptop, they all use cut-down connectors.

    Yep, thats incredibly upsetting. Modular power bricks are great but the price increase on them were ridiculous.

    Again, function keys have been absent from Mac UI at least for a decade. Whats the point of catering to an odd user who relies on software that isn't following Mac design guidelines?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 3, 2017 ---
    Revenue is not profit, its total sales. And the revenue has increased from 2015. If what you say is true and the revenue is due to selling the 2015 models, that would mean that Apple's sales of the 2015 model would have doubled in 2015-2016 compared to 2015. Which doesn't make much sense. You can divide the revenue by the units sold to get the average price of the unit sold, and that price clearly shows that those units are the more expensive 2016-2017 models.

    The prices are absolutely identical (both $1999). Regional prices might wary based on currency fluctuations/local laws etc.
     
  24. simonmet, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

    simonmet macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #24
    Yes I agree battery life is matched on low-power tasks such as Apple’s Wi-Fi browsing test. That’s fine for light-use tasks but I care also about mixed-use and higher-power pro workloads. There are numerous reviews and reports that say battery life in no way matched or exceeded the previous generation under “normal” usage patterns.

    Many new cameras have Wi-Fi but plenty of photographers still have older models that don’t and my experience has been Wi-Fi is still far from matching the experience of SD cards. Maybe some brands are better than others, but setting up reliable connections and getting acceptable speeds is extremely annoying on the cameras I’ve tried.

    Remember we’re talking about potentially transferring multiple gigabytes of data vs simply popping out and sliding a new card in. I know which one I prefer. The forward thinking or owners of newer tech are still able to move on to Wi-Fi. I personally wouldn’t be comfortable having photos on a phone or tablet only as the interim and deleting from camera, but that’s just me. It’s hard to shake decades of trust in SD.

    Apple is trying to push the industry forward but there are reasons USB-A lasted as long as it did and why SD cards and 3.5 mm audio are still popular now even though by all accounts they probably shouldn’t be. The best thing about MacBook Pro was its versatility. If you liked SD cards, Apple didn’t penalise you but gave you that choice. If you liked optical audio, you had that choice.

    The new screens look fantastic so no complaints there. But I do feel Apple erred a little too far on design-oriented forward thinking with the latest model and that’s being reflected in some of the average reviews we’ve seen.
     
  25. leman macrumors G3

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    #25
    I certainly acknowledge that there were early reports of battery life issues, which mostly had to do with software bugs due to incorrect GPU power states switching. That has been fixed in early 2017. Battery under mixed usage is not any worse (and in some cases better) than with previous models. This is based on both external benchmark results and personal experience — we own a large amount of 2016/2017 units and the users are very happy with the battery life. On my 15", I have actually gained about an hour compared to be previous 2015 model with the same mixed usage (programming, prototyping of statistical models, writing, organisational stuff).

    Oh, I agree. But you asked for Apple's explanation, was just repeating what they said back then :)
     

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