Jony Ive "hears" your macbook criticism

[smirking]

no longer sees things like MagSafe as having a role since they don't think you should have to plug it in save for at night (which anyone using their MBP knows is a farce of course)

I have to say that I thought I'd miss Magsafe with my 2016 MBP, but I don't. Part of the reason why I don't is because the TB3 USB-C cable detaches quite easily. Sometimes it detaches a little too easily for my tastes even. Magsafe is still less of an accident risk, but the USB-C cables aren't like other peripheral cables.

 

[leman]

For example because nearly everyone uses one of the BILLION external devices with "classic" USB Type A connectors.

And before that people were using serial ports. And floppy disks. And riding horse carriages. By your logic all progress should be stopped because old technology is still in use. Not to mention that USB-C is becoming quite wide-spread on the market and other manufacturers, like Dell, are switching to USB-C only designs.

I am not against USB Type C Connectors and Thunderbolt 3, but why abandon LAN, USB 3.1, TB 2 and MagSafe?

Because USB Type C does everything these connectors do and does it better (except the MagSafe of course, but thats a minor issue)

This is ridiculous engineering.

Most of it is forward-thinking engineering actually

are non-functional keyboards, glued Batteries not-replicable RAM and SSD also "modern" ?

Keyboard is perfectly functional, might be not to everyone's liking but then again, so are mechanical keyboards with their quite ridiculous travel (for example, I always preferred shallow keyboards because I find them more pleasant and convenient to type on). Glued batteries etc, yes, thats rather modern, since most laptop manufacturers are using similar tech. You need to choose between user-replaceable battery and large battery — can't really have both (unless you want to sacrifice portability). Same with RAM — you can have replaceable RAM or battery-efficient RAM. Engineering is all about finding tradeoffs. You might disagree with tradeoffs Apple decided to do, but then again, nobody is forcing you to buy their products. There area nought computers on the market you might find more attractive.
[doublepost=1515740786][/doublepost]

Based on the article posted by OP.

Really? Based on "Jony says he listens?" Listens to what, excellent sale statistics of the 2016/2017 laptops? Or the fact that Dell is changing the XPS design to basically exactly mirror the 2016/2017 MBP (would they do it if that design were so problematic?).

The way I see it, we might get some changes to the keyboard, since that seems to be the biggest point of criticism (nd there are indeed some engineering issues here), maybe some tweaks to the Touch Bar, maybe (but unlikely) the card reader back. If they use new Intel's G series, we could also get larger battery and/or 32GB of LPDDR3 RAM (the later is rather unlikely though). There is no way they would regress to less functional ports at this point though.

 

[GtrDude]

Diehard Apple fan boy here, but my 2016 TB MBP sits unused. Give me a full set of Hackintosh drivers for my X1 Carbon and I would be all set. The Thinkpad is the almost perfect combination of ports, weight, and quality. If only it had a 16x10 screen, it would be perfect.

I really really love my X1 Carbon, and actually the T-470 as well.
Yes, that's right, I was actually able to buy two super good laptops
for the price of one MBP that didn't work.

Tried the new MBP's but couldn't live with the keyboard.
Got major wrist pain. I use the keyboard about 6-8 hours a day.

 

[BayouTiger]

But how can it be perfect when you need a dongle for the RJ45 LAN connector, and it has no full SD card connector, too. Does it have MagSafe? But the worst thing is: no macOS.

But I agree with you, Lenovo probably makes the best Windows notebooks. Before I switched over to Apple products, I was very happy with my ThinkPad notebooks. No comparison to what HP or Dell made at that time.

Today I only touch Windows in a Parallels VM because I need to use Visual Studio for work. To get access to company resources like Active Directory etc. I even was forced to install a (Windows) Virus Scanner. Very often I see a message box: "Windows is installing updates, your performance might be reduced" or similar.

I've been using a dongle for Ethernet for so long I don't even think about it any more. I also like the USB-C charging solution better than Magsafe. I work in pretty severe places a lot and MagSafe would suck up metal shavings and have issues.

I don't really have an issue with the new laptops going to all TB3, but my experience with the Touch Bar was very mixed. I liked the TouchID, but not having a hard escape and F keys was usually problematic in my workflow. The keyboard was not great, but not that bad for a hunt and peck user like me.

I have lived inFusion on my Mac for years as it provides better peripheral support than Parallels for my stuff and it allows me to move back and forth with esxi at work pretty seamlessly.

The Thinkpad T series has always been my favorite PC, but the latest Carbon really nailed it. I didn't try one for years as there is no place local to even look at a Thinkpad but took a swing at it blindly and am pretty happy - at least until the Fall Creators update broke about half my functionality. Going to clean it this week end and see if I can get it back to where it was last month.

 

[youdontsay]

maybe some tweaks to the Touch Bar

I'd like the TB to be "full screen". Right now you have Touch ID on the right and, for the sake of symmetry or to place the TB controller, you have an unused area on the left.

Now that they have invented Face ID AND they have managed to wrap the oled screen on the iPhone X to have an edge-to edge screen, I want a full touch bar to have more controls.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

I do miss the old keyboard a bit, old function keys (tho adding night shift on it has been a delight) 120fps screen would be dope (I'd rather have power used for that then 1050p default res) maybe a 17 inch option again (just make them more limited so worth it) a really nice integrated option like the new Intel/AMD rumors...and I'm not gonna lie I do love the USB-C connections but having more on the side would be fine too. (at least the SD card)

Also the 2016 MBP is the first one I've owned that the side of it legit feels like it's cutting into my palm after a while lol. Oh and battery life...I would love an increase from 10, it's been years where's muh battery innovations?

 

[jk73]

At the risk of sounding like an Apple fanboy — which, admittedly, I am — just about every change Apple has made is defensible except the removal of MagSafe. There's no way that was progress, by any definition of the word.

 

[jerry70450]

At the risk of sounding like an Apple fanboy — which, admittedly, I am — just about every change Apple has made is defensible except the removal of MagSafe. There's no way that was progress, by any definition of the word.

I disagree though. I rather use USB C charging. More standardized than proprietary magsafe. Now you can charge with both sides! Plus I just switched over to mac this year so its already something i didnt have on my windows machine lol. Now only if they could combine the two.

 

[BayouTiger]

I disagree though. I rather use USB C charging. More standardized than proprietary magsafe. Now you can charge with both sides! Plus I just switched over to mac this year so its already something i didnt have on my windows machine lol. Now only if they could combine the two.

I also can use a generic charger for my MBP, my X1C, my wife's MacBook, and any number of other devices.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

https://www.macworld.com/article/31...e-a-little-less-innovation-at-the-moment.html

 

[SteveJUAE]

I disagree though. I rather use USB C charging. More standardized than proprietary magsafe. Now you can charge with both sides! Plus I just switched over to mac this year so its already something i didnt have on my windows machine lol. Now only if they could combine the two.

It's not just combining the 2 what about the other Apple products eg IPhone IPad etc that are not USB-C

 

[interessiert]

I really really love my X1 Carbon, and actually the T-470 as well.
Yes, that's right, I was actually able to buy two super good laptops
for the price of one MBP that didn't work.

Tried the new MBP's but couldn't live with the keyboard.
Got major wrist pain. I use the keyboard about 6-8 hours a day.

This is caused by this useless oversized Touch Pad

 

[sputnikBA]

It's not just combining the 2 what about the other Apple products eg IPhone IPad etc that are not USB-C

I said this in the 2018 macbook thread, but I have a theory that Apple's long term plan is to get rid of ports entirely and have some kind of next gen version of the smart connector they have on iPad Pros.

It will do power + data + magnets so will also serve as a MagSafe type solution. Between that and wireless charging they will eliminate plugin ports on iOS hardware in their never ending quest for thinness. They will be forced to keep USB-C on MacBooks for a while though thankfully.

 

[leman]

I said this in the 2018 macbook thread, but I have a theory that Apple's long term plan is to get rid of ports entirely and have some kind of next gen version of the smart connector they have on iPad Pros.

Well, fast, secure short-distance communication is undoubtedly the future of computer connectivity and the next logical step. And its not just Apple. But it will probably take some time...

 

[SteveJUAE]

I said this in the 2018 macbook thread, but I have a theory that Apple's long term plan is to get rid of ports entirely and have some kind of next gen version of the smart connector they have on iPad Pros.

It will do power + data + magnets so will also serve as a MagSafe type solution. Between that and wireless charging they will eliminate plugin ports on iOS hardware in their never ending quest for thinness. They will be forced to keep USB-C on MacBooks for a while though thankfully.

It sounds a nice idea but whilst the Apple ECO manages simplicity of software interaction
across devices ease of charging eludes them with different ports, charge cables and adaptors etc

You have to wonder why even from a green or cost perspective it makes little sense and a complete mixed message on premium devices that are aimed to maximise efficency if you immerse yourself in to the Apple ECO

 

[gobikerider]

At the risk of sounding like an Apple fanboy — which, admittedly, I am — just about every change Apple has made is defensible except the removal of MagSafe. There's no way that was progress, by any definition of the word.

Thinner is progress

 

[BayouTiger]

Actually if you work with your laptop in difficult places like I do, thinner is actually very nice, and weight is crucial, but even more important to me is overall balance. Much of what I do is while walking around on a job site thus I have to hold it in one hand and type/gesture with the other. My 15" TB MBP is "OK" but not great. When I pick up the 13" it's also not balanced optimally. The 13" Air was very nice and the 12" MB is also very well balanced as is my X1C5. I would love to move towards the Surfacebook2 for the overall power, but other than the Surface notebook, they are all terribly top heavy and pretty much unusable one handed. The Notebook has the worst port selection of any high end laptop - you would think MS would learn from the pushback Apple has had - though at least Apple's choice is forward thinking. NO I can't just use a surface in tablet mode as I am constantly switching between drop down boxes and typing. Toggling a keyboard on and off is an awful way to work. I have bought two different Surface Pro's and they had so much potential, but just too many compromises. Though they are getting better, maybe someday....I know the SB2 is greatly improved.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Actually if you work with your laptop in difficult places like I do, thinner is actually very nice, and weight is crucial, but even more important to me is overall balance. Much of what I do is while walking around on a job site thus I have to hold it in one hand and type/gesture with the other. My 15" TB MBP is "OK" but not great. When I pick up the 13" it's also not balanced optimally. The 13" Air was very nice and the 12" MB is also very well balanced as is my X1C5. I would love to move towards the Surfacebook2 for the overall power, but other than the Surface notebook, they are all terribly top heavy and pretty much unusable one handed. The Notebook has the worst port selection of any high end laptop - you would think MS would learn from the pushback Apple has had - though at least Apple's choice is forward thinking. NO I can't just use a surface in tablet mode as I am constantly switching between drop down boxes and typing. Toggling a keyboard on and off is an awful way to work. I have bought two different Surface Pro's and they had so much potential, but just too many compromises. Though they are getting better, maybe someday....I know the SB2 is greatly improved.

Funny I found the exact oposite after using a 11" MBA from many years as a mobile platform the rMB was a welcome upgrade especially screen wise, I never found port selection an issue as you are mobile with nothing to attach to other than back in a hotel for example

Although having also many high end Sony Z series carbon laptops I enjoyed my little macs and the turning point for me was the release of the SP4 when touch screens became a useful addition along with higher performance options

For annoating and editing drawings or pictures on the go for snagging lists around many houses and building sites it puts conventional clamshells to bed and macs simply are no contenders

I even got a surface dock but found little use after being trained up on doingles with my rMB. I eventually gave the dock to my middle son who also went to SP4 after many years on mbp's, he uses it for his desktop setup.

He is a software designer/manager specifically for site applications for a multinational engineering company. I watched him this Xmas at home, he's so adept with the pen for pull downs menus etc he rarely uses a keyboard attached, where I still need both

I was in the UK this summer and my sister liked my wife' rMB who is a lap top user so we went to John Lewis to get a rMB. We literally got all the bits and bobs plus case and was walking to the till and my sister spotted the Surface laptop and changed instantly just the feel and the extra real estate was an instant hit for her

I fancy a 15" SB2 just for shear greed but as yet not seen one IRL fortunatey my wife says

 

[rukind2]

I do miss the old keyboard a bit, old function keys (tho adding night shift on it has been a delight) 120fps screen would be dope (I'd rather have power used for that then 1050p default res) maybe a 17 inch option again (just make them more limited so worth it) a really nice integrated option like the new Intel/AMD rumors...and I'm not gonna lie I do love the USB-C connections but having more on the side would be fine too. (at least the SD card)

Also the 2016 MBP is the first one I've owned that the side of it legit feels like it's cutting into my palm after a while lol. Oh and battery life...I would love an increase from 10, it's been years where's muh battery innovations?

I miss the old keyboard, too. I work in quiet environments and the post-2015 keyboard is ridiculously loud. I grew tired of colleagues asking me to not type or relocate to another work space. Now I use my iPad instead but miss the functionality of the MBP.

 

[adamh10]

Will they really bring back any the following?
- one or two USB 3.0 type A ports
- the "classic" keyboard keys
- real function keys
- magsafe
- upgradable RAM
- user-accessible storage (SATA/M.2/etc)
- user-swappable battery
- non-glossy displays

Because that's what most people are complaining about.

Classic keyboard keys would be the silver, soft, pre-unibody keyboard keys. If they aren't those, I prefer the 2017 keys.

 

[Glockworkorange]

And before that people were using serial ports. And floppy disks. And riding horse carriages. By your logic all progress should be stopped because old technology is still in use. Not to mention that USB-C is becoming quite wide-spread on the market and other manufacturers, like Dell, are switching to USB-C only designs.



Because USB Type C does everything these connectors do and does it better (except the MagSafe of course, but thats a minor issue)




Most of it is forward-thinking engineering actually



Keyboard is perfectly functional, might be not to everyone's liking but then again, so are mechanical keyboards with their quite ridiculous travel (for example, I always preferred shallow keyboards because I find them more pleasant and convenient to type on). Glued batteries etc, yes, thats rather modern, since most laptop manufacturers are using similar tech. You need to choose between user-replaceable battery and large battery — can't really have both (unless you want to sacrifice portability). Same with RAM — you can have replaceable RAM or battery-efficient RAM. Engineering is all about finding tradeoffs. You might disagree with tradeoffs Apple decided to do, but then again, nobody is forcing you to buy their products. There area nought computers on the market you might find more attractive.
[doublepost=1515740786][/doublepost]

Really? Based on "Jony says he listens?" Listens to what, excellent sale statistics of the 2016/2017 laptops? Or the fact that Dell is changing the XPS design to basically exactly mirror the 2016/2017 MBP (would they do it if that design were so problematic?).

The way I see it, we might get some changes to the keyboard, since that seems to be the biggest point of criticism (nd there are indeed some engineering issues here), maybe some tweaks to the Touch Bar, maybe (but unlikely) the card reader back. If they use new Intel's G series, we could also get larger battery and/or 32GB of LPDDR3 RAM (the later is rather unlikely though). There is no way they would regress to less functional ports at this point though.

I personally love usb c, but will not consider it standard until I can roll into a CVS and buy an over priced replacement c cable off the shelf.

 

[Playfoot]

I miss the old keyboard, too. I work in pretty quiet environments and the the post-2015 keyboard is ridiculously loud. I grew tired of colleagues asking me to not type or relocate to another work space. Now I use my iPad but miss the functionality of the MBP.

Oh, ain't that the truth . . . I am the client, and when I am in the law library I am requested to move or ideally STOP typing!

However, Apple is two three generations of laptops into the butterfly keyboard, ironic as butterflies are quiet, and there is little to no chance for change. Apple is too invested in the product.

As for USB-C: have always carried adapters and dongles for work so no different. And while I would like the MagSafe back, it won't be back. While I see no improvement in the battery, or at least nothing to rave about, the speed of charging is impressive.

While I am certainly underwhelmed by the current iteration, the current form factor and features are here to stay for another couple of evolutionary ticks of the MacBook Pro.

 

[Amplelink]

I disagree though. I rather use USB C charging. More standardized than proprietary magsafe. Now you can charge with both sides! Plus I just switched over to mac this year so its already something i didnt have on my windows machine lol. Now only if they could combine the two.

Agreed. USB C charging was an unexpectedly pleasant surprise. Now it doesn't matter where I take my laptop, I can usually find a seat somewhere, say at a coffee shop, without having to worry about how the outlets are oriented. Since I can plug in on either side of the laptop now, it makes things so much easier.

 

[darkgoob]

Work just bought me the top-end 15" MBP, the 3.1 GHz. Using it with a 4K LG monitor for developing iPhone apps.

I freakin' love it. I love the tactile feel of the new keyboard. I love the touch strip—so much better than FKeys. Don't miss FKeys at all—and I'm really a big hotkey user. Love how customizable to touch-strip is.

Got a Satechi USB-3 adapter that has: ethernet, several USB ports, and HDMI out. I mean, I normally carried a USB hub anyway since the number of ports on the old MBP was insufficient for my needs, so I don't feel that it was a big deal.

And being able to drive a 4K monitor off USB 3 *and* have that bring out digital audio AND several more USB ports on the back of the monitor... that's freakin' awesome. The only display that worked like that before was the Apple Thunderbolt display, but now you get it with any PC monitor that has USB3.

Lastly, the ability to hook up external GPUs etc is killer.

So... seriously... I think all of you who don't like the new design, are smoking crack. It's really great. But I think also it came before its time.

BTW the reason they dumped magsafe is because the EU has a new law requiring all power adapters to be standardized by 2017. But for not very much, you can get a thing that turns USB3 into magsafe, so no big deal.

PS — If anyone says my typing is too loud, I turn on death metal so they can't hear the typing anymore. If they say turn off the death metal, then I tell them to go to hell and make sure to greet Donald Trump once he gets there. If they laugh, I turn off the death metal.