Judge in Apple v. Epic Case Sides With Apple on Fortnite and Epic on Unreal Engine [Updated]

[pasamio]

Not only epic but Apple as well. „THE APP STORE WAS NEARLY 40 PERCENT OF APPLE’S TOTAL SERVICE REVENUE IN 2019“
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/17/...-app-store-services-business-model-epic-games

of the more than $1.8 billion earned by Fortnite in 2019, less than 12% came from iOS

12% of $1.8 billion is $276m which means a little over $120 million to Apple from Fortnite for 2019. Apple make $60 billion in a quarter, I don't think Apple is worried about losing 0.2% of it's yearly earnings. The juxtaposition is compared to Epic losing 12% of it's earnings from Fortnite or 6% of it's entire $4.2 billion revenue for the year. Epic has more to lose from this than Apple does and I suspect many who find out they can't play Fortnite will play another IAP enabled Battle Royale game and Apple might not even lose out on all of that $120 million.

If anything this is the challenge of the App Store, if Fortnite leaves then that leaves a visible vacuum in the marketplace for others to come in and try to dominate and try to get a slice of the $276m Fortnite was pulling in.

 

[throAU]

12% of $1.8 billion is $276m which means a little over $120 million to Apple from Fortnite for 2019. Apple make $60 billion in a quarter, I don't think Apple is worried about losing 0.2% of it's yearly earnings.

Given Apple's stance on a lot of things, I don't think they're overly concerned with money vs. doing "the right thing" from their perspective. Which is maintaining control over software on their App Store, as a means to maintaining security within the iOS platform.

Whether you agree with that perspective or not is personal choice but I myself do. Its a primary reason I'm on iOS actually.

 

[AndiG]

12% of $1.8 billion is $276m which means a little over $120 million to Apple from Fortnite for 2019. Apple make $60 billion in a quarter, I don't think Apple is worried about losing 0.2% of it's yearly earnings. The juxtaposition is compared to Epic losing 12% of it's earnings from Fortnite or 6% of it's entire $4.2 billion revenue for the year. Epic has more to lose from this than Apple does and I suspect many who find out they can't play Fortnite will play another IAP enabled Battle Royale game and Apple might not even lose out on all of that $120 million.

If anything this is the challenge of the App Store, if Fortnite leaves then that leaves a visible vacuum in the marketplace for others to come in and try to dominate and try to get a slice of the $276m Fortnite was pulling in.

Yes, but you see why Apple is fighting for its life since most of the revenue comes from free to play games and some subscription services. Imagine Epic wins what would happen to Apples services department?

But we will have to wait looooong time since Apple said it will be prepared to go to court in about 10 months.

 

[tann]

Give it up Epic!

its game over for you. Apple won.

Everyone on these threads bash Epic for acting "childish" and throwing a temper tantrum but posts like this show the same thing on the other side.

Jeez if someone likes playing Fortnite, that's fine, doesn't affect you at all. Just live you life as usual without letting it get to you.

 

[Picard J.L.]

Jeez if someone likes playing Fortnite, that's fine, doesn't affect you at all. Just live you life as usual without letting it get to you.

Doesn't? Actually it does you just don't see it.

 

[btrach144]

Interesting update on the case!

 

[leman]

The judge sound like a very reasonable and wise person. This decision makes perfect sense.

Also, I was not aware that the games and the engine division run on different accounts. Thumbs down to Apple for doing a sweep ban, totally uncalled for and unjustified.

 

[Abazigal]

Not only epic but Apple as well. „THE APP STORE WAS NEARLY 40 PERCENT OF APPLE’S TOTAL SERVICE REVENUE IN 2019“
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/17/...-app-store-services-business-model-epic-games

The accuracy of which is highly questionable.

Tech blogs like TheVerge are fun to read for opinion pieces (even if I don’t agree with them), but I wouldn’t trust any numbers coming out of them that they aren’t parroting from an official source. Their writers simply lack the ability and expertise to properly vet the accuracy of the data they come across.

 

[The Phazer]

If Epic win, then every developer should put their own app store on the Epic game store and tell Epic "you wanted app stores within app stores for all developers". Flood the Epic Game store with so many individual app stores.

If Epic made hardware this would make sense.

But Epic don't, so it sounds like the ramblings of someone who doesn't understand the issues.

Epic doesn't want app stores within app stores particularly, it wants customers to be able to pick app stores.

 

[imMango]

Thumbs down to Apple for doing a sweep ban, totally uncalled for and unjustified.

To be fair, it is said there that Apple routinely terminates all linked developer accounts in situations like this - and they probably have a good reason for it. So they weren't doing anything different from the norm for them.

 

[Wildkraut]

Hahahhaah \o/ 1:0 for EPIC... 🤣 Apple will face plant hard, and break all teeths.

 

[gnasher729]

So the judge will give into the toddler's tantrum in regards to Unreal Engine. wow.

I don't see Unreal Engine violating any App Store terms, since it is not sold on the App Store. It's not the kind of product you would buy on an App Store.

 

[Bayshun]

This TRO situation is essentially a complete win for Apple, really. They said in their response to the Chinese government's Epic's lawsuit that if Epic would just restore Fortnite to a version that would follow Apple's rules, they'd leave Unreal Engine alone. So unless Swiney is planning to keep Fortnite off of the App Store until after the trial in April (at the earliest), Apple is getting exactly what it wanted.

 

[gnasher729]

Why Epic won't make a website for buying something for the players? Netflix has a website for managing your account and payment.

I can tell you what the difference is. I'm paying for Netflix, through their website. I talked to my wife whether we should pay for Netflix, we agreed, and I went to their website and subscribed. Not being able to subscribe in the Netflix app was no obstacle whatsoever. A conscious and informed decision.

Epic is convincing stupid kids to pay real money for worthless digital tat. Kids with the attention span of a gnat. These are impulse purchases. If the kids had to go to a website to buy, that would be beyond their attention span. By the time they are on the website, they would have forgotten what they wanted to buy in the first place.

 

[ohmydays]

i think for right now, Apple won’t be able to delete the developer account. Right?

Yes, they will be allowed to do that, just not the whole Unreal Engine

 

[Anox]

This makes sense. Epic was trying to push this so they could make more money. This wasn't about them helping out the little guy.

that being said, Apple kicking X cloud off is totally different, and I really hope that does change (I want to play halo on my iPad!).

I’d give it time...
Both Apple and Microsoft have a history of fighting and collaborating it seems

 

[Anox]

Yeah. I'm surprised none of the earlier news reports noted that the Unreal Engine was owned by a separate entity. As Unreal could have certainly mentioned that earlier on and then would have been pretty clear Apple wouldn't be able to attack it since it's two seperate companies (even if under the same leadership).

Why would they?, that will defeat the purpose of all of this

 

[Anox]

If making purchase inside the iOS app requires paying 30% cut to Apple, is Amazon paying Apple that 30% fee when people buying stuff thru the app?

To my understanding if you are referring to physical goods these do not require you to use the Apple payment process and are not considered in app purchases but I am not an expert

 

[gnasher729]

And surely, after this, you recognize how easy it is to sneak things past app review. I’ve said it before, but Apple should be glad that it was something as toothless as adding another payment option. Similar techniques could be used to pull off far, far worse.

No matter what it is, it gets your app removed, it likely gets your developer account removed, in the case of malware Apple _can_ remove the app from all devices, refund the money, and charge the developer 100% of the refund.

 

[gnasher729]

To my understanding if you are referring to physical goods these do not require you to use the Apple payment process and are not considered in app purchases but I am not an expert

Not only are physical goods not required to use Apple's payment process, app developers are not _allowed_ to use Apple's payment process. So if you are a small outfit creating knitted jumpers, you might thing that paying 30% for the ability to sell world wide with payments, taxes, and so on all handled for you is worth it, but you are not allowed to.

 

[Wildkraut]

I can tell you what the difference is. I'm paying for Netflix, through their website. I talked to my wife whether we should pay for Netflix, we agreed, and I went to their website and subscribed. Not being able to subscribe in the Netflix app was no obstacle whatsoever. A conscious and informed decision.

Epic is convincing stupid kids to pay real money for worthless digital tat. Kids with the attention span of a gnat. These are impulse purchases. If the kids had to go to a website to buy, that would be beyond their attention span. By the time they are on the website, they would have forgotten what they wanted to buy in the first place.

Who are you to call any kids stupid, just because their interests differs to yours. Look at the mirror, before calling anybody stupid. Defending a company with abusive and vengeful behaviors does not make you intellectual either.

 

[waquzy]

Given Apple's stance on a lot of things, I don't think they're overly concerned with money vs. doing "the right thing" from their perspective. Which is maintaining control over software on their App Store, as a means to maintaining security within the iOS platform.

Whether you agree with that perspective or not is personal choice but I myself do. Its a primary reason I'm on iOS actually.

Finally someone who actually knows what they are talking about!

 

[Anox]

I think this (the judge’s decision inclination in the story) seems reasonable for now. It’s not fair that devs who had nothing to do with this spat between Apple and Epic are caused problems not of their own making - and then it’s going to be for the longer court case(s?) to decide upon the issues Epic have er... ‘brought up’ in their own way...

I’ve gone back and forth on this whole mess many times in my head, I don’t think either side is entirely blameless but I do feel like although Epic have some merit to some of their arguments, the way they have gone about all this makes me care very little if they lose and have to back down. But on the other hand, if they were to win there are potential positives for everyone but Apple, regardless of how we got there. But then it’s Apple’s store on Apple’s platform and I do think they have the right to charge 30% and demand exclusivity if they want to, even if I would agree 30% is a little steep. I dunno, I give up!

The only part I’m certain on is that I’m glad I am not the one who’s going to have to decide all this!!

I would say that I have to agree we need change (while I don’t agree with the notion of multiple stores on iOS please leave that to android) in the guidelines and to make developers more comfortable and capable

I have to also argue that this forced change is and will set a bad preset an might very well leave us at a state we never have expected...

 

[UK-MacAddict]

MS unable to launch project XCloud on iOS is more concerning.

 

[Pizzakoerier]

To my understanding if you are referring to physical goods these do not require you to use the Apple payment process and are not considered in app purchases but I am not an expert

You are correct!