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Judge Says Apple Has Until December 9 to Make App Store Change Letting Developers Link to Alternate Payment Methods

dave420 said:
On this site people seem happy when rulings go against Apple.

Personally I am happy to have Apple handle payments for apps. I don’t want to have to turn over my credit card information to 20 different apps and be worried about data breaches all the time. Also I trust Apple more to refund me for issues than random developers.
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If you knew how much Apple causes prices to be higher by imposing a 30% tax, you probably wouldn't like it so much. Apple can still mandate providing a CHOICE to pay with Apple, but they cannot make it the only option.

So, if you really like paying with Apple, you can continue doing that.
 
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Ceed said:
Anyone calling the government Big Brother is failing to make the connection that Apple is acting exactly like Big Brother. You may say "it's a free market, buy an Android phone", but for many who are inadvertently entrenched in the iPhone they purchased, it's not so quick and easy to do that. These are platforms that govern our lives at this point, and that is why they are scrutinized and demand regulation.
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But at the same time the user has the choice initially whether to buy an Apple product or a competitor's product. 'Inadvertently entrenched' - how does that happen?
 
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boss.king said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but appellate courts also have judges, don’t they?
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In this case there’s the 9th circuit. I beleive the initial appeal will be with 3 justices, and if they go for an en blanc ruling it’ll be 11 (there’s 25 total but IIRC there’s a Federal law that limits en banc to a maximum of 11 justices).
 
Chrjy said:
But at the same time the user has the choice initially whether to buy an Apple product or a competitor's product. 'Inadvertently entrenched' - how does that happen?
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The average consumer doesn't see a 50% tax (going from $70 to $100 is a 50% sales tax).

If Apple was required to list it as such, the consumer might not choose Apple. That's the problem with ubiquitous hidden fees.

No surprise, developers are banned from listing the "Apple Tax" on checkout.
 
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Ceed said:
If Apple behaved in such a manner, would you be able to admit it to yourself? Can those wires ever, in any fashion, make that connection, under any circumstance?
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What? It was a simple question.

As to your question, yes, if Apple was watching everything I did via electronic devices that were forcibly installed in my home, was falsifying news and history, was engaged in endless wars in order to keep itself in power, etc., then I would object.
 
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TiggrToo said:
In this case there’s the 9th circuit. I beleive the initial appeal will be with 3 justices, and if they go for an en blanc ruling it’ll be 11 (there’s 25 total but IIRC there’s a Federal law that limits en banc to a maximum of 11 justices).
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Correct, though the 9th circuit does not have to meet en banc unless they want to, I believe.
 
cmaier said:
”With respect to the alleged need for clarification because, anecdotally, some developers may not understand the scope of the injunction, the parties themselves have not indicated any confusion. The Developer Agreement prohibits third party in-app purchasing systems other than Apple’s IAP. The Court did not enjoin that provision but rather enjoined the prohibition to communicate external alternatives and to allow links to those external sites.”

In other words, Apple does NOT have to allow in-app purchasing mechanisms - what Epic tried to do is NOT what the court says Apple has to allow.

More here: https://talkedabout.com/threads/hea...partial-stay-of-injunction-in-epic-case.2155/
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Excellent clarification!
 
DoogH said:
The average consumer doesn't see a 50% tax (going from $70 to $100 is a 50% sales tax).

If Apple was required to list it as such, the consumer might not choose Apple. That's the problem with ubiquitous hidden fees.
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Sorry you've lost me. I thought we were discussing a consumers initial decision to buy Apple or not? Apple products have always been premium prices and if you consider price increases since 2007 they're actually equivalent.
 
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cmaier said:
What? It was a simple question.

As to your question, yes, if Apple was watching everything I did via electronic devices that were forcibly installed in my home, was falsifying news and history, was engaged in endless wars in order to keep itself in power, etc., then I would object.
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Remind me, are we allies of Eurasia or enemies today? :cool:
 
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cmaier said:
Correct, though the 9th circuit does not have to meet en banc unless they want to, I believe.
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Correct - it’s not certain, ad this may be a small piece of the pie for them to care about.

Having said that they could also argue the repurcussuins could be felt accross the industry which might shift a needle.
 
GizmoDVD said:
How do they expect Apple to code this so quickly?
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Force developers and QA into "overtime". Typically they are salary so it’s not truly overtime, but the concept still applies. Have their employees work nights and weekends. As a developer that has been through this, it’s horrible.
 
DoogH said:
If you knew how much Apple causes prices to be higher by imposing a 30% tax, you probably wouldn't like it so much. Apple can still mandate providing a CHOICE to pay with Apple, but they cannot make it the only option.

So, if you really like paying with Apple, you can continue doing that.
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If apple lowered the tax most devs would keep the price the same and pocket the extra profit
 
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xWhiplash said:
Force developers and QA into "overtime". Typically they are salary so it’s not truly overtime, but the concept still applies. Have their employees work nights and weekends.
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Sure. We’ll go with that idea because that ALWAYS works in software and NEVER backfires….
 
I just opened my Doordash app to check. I had no problems whatsoever adding in a non-Apple payment method. In the app itself, without going to a website. Apple allows this for some apps and not others for some arbitrary reason, yet permitting it where they don't now is supposed to be this huge change to how they do business. BS. It is just a 30% tax on businesses that compete with Apple. For those who don't, Apple doesn't collect the tax.
 
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cmaier said:
They can do those things on macos, too, but 10x as many buy ios devices.

And you can find sources for my contention in the exhibits to apple’s brief.
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Without seeing the specific information you’re referencing — it is not my job to find a source for your claim — I read this as Apple having paid for a survey that elicited the results it wanted. Neat, super easy to accomplish with the right questions and wording.

You also seem to set aside completely that iOS devices are significantly more affordable than Macs, but they’re also priced more competitively than Macs have been, which is definitely a factor in why Apple sells more iOS devices than Macs.

Never mind how a smartphone (maybe a tablet, too?) is arguably as useful if not more useful to the median person today than a traditional computer.
 
jonblatho said:
Without seeing the specific information you’re referencing — it is not my job to find a source for your claim — I read this as Apple having paid for a survey that elicited the results it wanted. Neat, super easy to accomplish with the right questions and wording.

You also seem to set aside completely that iOS devices are significantly more affordable than Macs, but they’re also priced more competitively than Macs have been, which is definitely a factor in why Apple sells more iOS devices than Macs.

Never mind how a smartphone (maybe a tablet, too?) is arguably as useful if not more useful to the median person today than a traditional computer.
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And yet Epic was unable to find an expert to produce a survey to contradict it.

You can find the information I refer to on PACER for the Northern District of California. Case number is 4:20-cv-05640-YGR.
 
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As for the people wondering how people end up inadvertently entrenched in an ecosystem like icloud it's really not that hard

most people aren't tech savvy and after you've saved numerous passwords in icloud (or google, doesn't matter) most will have no idea how to effectively transfer those to a platform agnostic password manager and may very well cause themselves serious issues trying to

passwords are possibly the most important but you also have to consider things like apps you've purchased and the hardware you own that could be expensive to replace
 
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