Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The argument about whether or not Apple changed the smartphone market is so ridiculous...

Sure, smartphones existed when the iPhone came out, and they could do a lot of the same things (actually more) that the iPhone did.

What Apple did was change the form factor and user experience, and that transformed the industry and accelerated the demand for smartphone capabilities for the average user.

I worked for AT&T when the iPhone launched and I don't care what anyone says, the smartphone market underwent a tremendous shift in philosophy because of the design of the iPhone, and who knows when or if that would have come about if Apple had not done what they did. Apple made the smartphone sleek, sexy and user friendly and everyone wanted one.
 
This jury was acting on assumption that Apple had a valid patent. Now this patent is gone. Samsung can't be guilty of infringing on a non-existing patent.

You've claimed this a bunch of times in this thread now, but there's no number. What patent are you talking about?
 
And Apple used everybody else's designs, technology and concepts to make a smart phone, so what? I know there is no point bothering with that debate anymore, as Apple appears to have re-invented the wheel where smart-phones are concerned in most ill informed peoples minds.

I am sorry to hear that feel you are a sheep and cannot tell an Apple product from a Samsung one. That's clearly your problem and not that of a multinational. Myself and many millions of others have a brain, a pair of eyes and if all else the internet to make an informed decision.

I believe I said what I wanted to say, so I do not understand your "man-up" rhetoric. I always speak my mind in my posts.

The disclaimer was a semi-humourous footnote to avoid all the usual and pathetic "your a Samsung Troll", "You should not be on this forum" nonsense I see when somebody dares say something not pro-Apple.

You are sadly confusing my avoidance of wanting to enter into disscussion with the mindless, who think Steve Jobs was a living god and Apple can do no wrong at all, with me caring about what people think.. :rolleyes:
I think your missing the point. Where does Apple steal one idea, make lttile to no changes, advertise it, insult the user base of the company they got it from, and make a carbon clone of it at a cheaper price and advertise it to the companys' buyers? I want an example, don't just brush this off, 'cause this is exactly what happened. We are not talking about the S4 or Note 3. This is a year ago case. Go look at the pictures and tell me if you think people with no background on phones would know the difference.

Nothing homurous in someone defending themselves before anyone says something. It actually makes yourself look defensive for no reason. No **** people praise Apple in an Apple forum. Just ignore it and go about your day without adding a disclaimer.
 

Apple never set out for cash; they set out for an injunction. The judge ruled that they weren't entitled to one, but on Monday that decision was reversed and remanded.

When we get to the injunction stage, the game will change. There is an element of "justice delayed is justice denied" about this, but there's no way Apple can speed it up. They're going through the judicial process as quickly as they can.

On the other hand USPTO ruled yesterday that the patent at the center of this trial is invalid - source Now all Apple's multitouch patents have been invalidated which was a predictable outcome for these frivolous lawsuits.

It seems to me that your source says the exact opposite of that. In fact, he calls Samsung's statements to that effect "misleading" and says they "misrepresent the facts".

1. There are multiple patents and products on trial here. No one patent is "at the center of this trial"
2. The patent was not ruled invalid; the USPTO proceedings are not over and no ruling has been given.
3. It is quite typical for patents to be provisionally invalidated during reexamination proceedings, only to be found valid at the end of it all. This exact situation happened recently with the so-called "Steve Jobs patent". Again, nobody can say anything until an actual ruling is given.

Not sure how much Samsung is ripping off since my Note 3 has a TON more features than the iPhone will ever have.

If you want a list of features they copied (and which they are alleged to have copied), check out the court papers for this and other cases and find the patents Apple are suing on.
 
Does apple really need the money? Nope.

Should Samsung profit from infringing on patents? Nope. I'm sure Apple would be satisified if Samsung had to buy back every infringing product at the price paid for it and not pay a cent to Apple.
 
Pot and Kettle

Apple should donate the proceeds to SRI and Xerox -- where they stole all their ideas from.

Just because you own a patent on it doesn't mean you invented it.
 
Can we just be done with all these trials and retrials? Everyone sues everyone, in my mind, stuff that happens regularly isn't really all that newsworthy.
You know, all the stuff that doesn't interest me: I don't read. And I certainly don't reply to. Ignore the stuff that doesn't interest. And if it's this comment, that's cool, too.
 
In the always-silly words of Samsung, is that racist?

waisis.gif


If that's your lawyer, then you better have $1B in cash handy. :rolleyes:

I haven't heard Apple's lawyer stating anything about white anglo-saxon protestant R&D stuff. It may as well be South Korean citizens, what's important (to the US and for the sake of this argument) is that he or she pays his income tax in the US. I may very well misunderstand "racism", though.

Also, when running an organization whose business model revolves around criminal activities such as (but not limited to) counterfeiting electronics products:
BetterCallSaul-Banner-New-560.jpg
 
Last edited:
Apple will pay all this money back to Samsung in the end, all the components, memory, processor FABS and screens.

If nobody else can make a decent screen then they will have to keep going back and paying Samsung to do it.

who's the real winner ?
 
I think your missing the point. Where does Apple steal one idea, make lttile to no changes, advertise it, insult the user base of the company they got it from, and make a carbon clone of it at a cheaper price and advertise it to the companys' buyers? I want an example, don't just brush this off, 'cause this is exactly what happened. We are not talking about the S4 or Note 3. This is a year ago case. Go look at the pictures and tell me if you think people with no background on phones would know the difference.

I am not missing any point, my point was made clear in my first post. But in answer to your off-my-topic grumblings and to clarify:

Did Samsung infringe on Apple patents in order to evolve it's tech line, or copy another concept or idea? Well, a court has decided so and levied what it feels is the appropriate penalty.

Do I think Samsung did the above? Well, yes in line with the law on patents.

Do I believe that Apple suffered (and pertaining to my original post), in that it caused people to "question our design skills in a way they never used to."? No, that is a poor argument clear to see. So clear in fact that the court did not buy it either, if the much lower final settlement is anything to go by.

Has Apple ever infringed on patents in order to evolve it's tech line, or copied another concept or idea? Do really need me to answer that....:rolleyes: The fact that they are a Billon $ company which settles most of it's issues before entering a Court room, does not mean that they do not or have never breached patents. These days they just buy the company who's tech they want, as it is cheaper in the long run than being sued.

I know that may have beed a wrong answer for you, as it seems that you wish to continue on a straw-man basis and wish me to detail every patent dispute. Well I am not going to do that, as if you are as informed as you make out you are, you should know already.

Also, people with no background on phones will buy what meets their requirements. When I bought my iPhone in 2007, this was something I was eagerly waiting for, as a long term Mac user and iPod user with a .Mac account. I made an informed decision.

However, there were people who bought an iPhone and did not know what it did other than a iPod-Phone. There were many more people who thought that I was an idiot, to pay so much money for my original iPhone (who's to say they were not right). However, they made an informed decision [not to buy an iPhone, so they were aware of Apple] to wait until somebody else made a similar phone which met their budgets and requirements.

Nothing homurous in someone defending themselves before anyone says something. It actually makes yourself look defensive for no reason. No **** people praise Apple in an Apple forum. Just ignore it and go about your day without adding a disclaimer.

It continues to amuse me why my throw away footnote rankles with you so much. Especially, as you continue to feel it was some kind of defence because I cannot defend my own post's.

I can only conclude that it bothers you so much because you took it more personally than it was meant, because of it perhaps related to you more than anybody else on this forum. Given that you are the only respondent.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings....

Disclaimer: The views held by the OP are not intended to hurt the feelings of others. However the OP does not care if this disclaimer, in itself upsets others.
 
He was probably upset that the consumer dare think:

2. Hey..., it uses an OS which is not controlled and restricted at times like something out of 1984.

Haha. I never get why developing a tightly integrated tool (hardware and OS), and a focus on usability and utility to enable users to achieve the best possible result as quickly and painlessly as possible, is considered a sign of "1984" tendencies on the part of Apple...

While Google is the ultimate BigBrother!

Yeah, it's so "BigBrother" for Apple to essentially say,
"Thou shalt not (or at least you are advised not to) use thy screwdriver as a hammer; please remember that however ubiquitous nails are, it's not a great idea to pound screws into things -- it's not good for the screw, the tool or the project requiring them. You will get better mileage and results out of using products and tools in their intended capacities. Otherwise, knock yourself out and buy a hammer. Hey, get a sledge hammer -- it's not real usable, but the specs say you can pound just about anything with it and make a real impact!"​

Please stop confusing and conflating the products, tools and intended uses of things with real 1984 issues of identity and the tracking of personal activities and habits. Give me a break.

Also, and very crucially, the freedom and personal expression of creativity is in the results you can achieve and goals you can accomplish with the tool; not in the personalizing of the tool itself, with little, mediocre or undifferentiated output to show for it. Yay, let's all get unrestricted and personalizable tools... so that our painful output and the results we finally achieve look just like everyone else's crappy results. That'll teach people to think different! Because, hey, "I" can do "anything" I want with my Android! Power to the people! LOL ...Such a misplaced sense of "freedom" and "creative expression", that it's laughable if it wasn't so pathetic, demoralizing and soul-destroying.
 
Last edited:
Samsung probably budgeted for Apple lawsuits in their Cost-Benefit analysis. They found a working formula and will continue to exploit it for short-term gains. Shamelessly.

Samsung took the lead in the android oem and became the only profitable android oem by ripping off apple. $890 million was / will be well worth it to put them where they are now.
 
Exactly, but I think this applies to Apple itself. It is a very litigious company that hates competition and would rather sue than innovate, given its propensity to patent the most simple things imaginable, while taking advantage of the very lax US patent law.

Those who can innovate, innovate. Those who cannot innovate, sue for patent infringement.

I think that after the original iPod/iPhone/iPad combo they lost their mojo and now they're just riding out what's left of the wave, suing left and right in an attempt to keep it going as much as possible. Not cool.

Lol

----------

Why should I do that? I said nothing about Samsung and the only thing I care about in the Apple vs Samsung piss-in-the-wind contests is that we, the consumers, lose, by virtue of more expensive products and less innovation.


You're being melodramatic, smartphones existed before the iPhone. This has nothing to do with patents however. Apple made very good products, which is not the same with being extraordinarily innovative, which they weren't.

Apple has always been a very good integrator of existing technologies, but not necessarily a pioneer. If you look at their patents, you'll see that virtually every single one is for something trivial, not something unique and non-obvious (i.e. innovative).

Apple, to me, does very little technological innovation. They're a lifestyle company, more akin to a fashion company. Their use of patent law is abusive and fundamentally anti-competitive.


Given your rudeness and inclination to fight straw-men rather than the argument, I am doubtful that you're a person worth speaking to.

You are ridiculous. Apple created the modern day smartphone market. Claiming that because devices previously were refereed to as smartphones doesn't change that.

You have zero credibility when you deny apple created the modern day smartphone industry.
 
Seems like Samsung also shamelessly copied Dyson's vacuum:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24023430 :(

Samsung attorneys will argue that Dyson didn't invent the ball. That balls are literally as old as the sun. Samsung fanbois will say that they used to play with their balls when they were kids and that kids and that Dyson didn't invent anything new. Never mind that Dyson will dig up Samsung internal emails about a crisis in design for vacuum cleaners and that Samsung needs to make a vacuum like the Dyson design, that is not relevant. Dyson is doing well financially so it is ok to steal their designs.
 
Originally Posted by TWSS37 View Post
Why doesn't Apple just buy Samsung?

:apple::apple: Samsung is a giant corporation

Subsidiaries
Samsung Electronics
Samsung Life Insurance
Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance
Samsung Heavy Industries
Samsung C&T
Samsung SDS
Samsung Techwin etc.

You must be new here :)
 
iOS7 and the 5c have done more for me to question Apple's 'skill' than Samsung ever could.

----------

Apple should donate the proceeds to SRI and Xerox -- where they stole all their ideas from.

Just because you own a patent on it doesn't mean you invented it.

yeah, plus Microsoft can pay for what they stole and Apple can post xerox a cheque for that too.:rolleyes:
 
Apple should donate the proceeds to SRI and Xerox -- where they stole all their ideas from.

Just because you own a patent on it doesn't mean you invented it.

They didn't steal anything from Xerox. ALTO was shown to more than 2000 people by the time Jobs has seen it. Not to mention Jobs already traded 10000 APPL shares before the IPO to Xerox in return of the rights of the visit. So they were entitled to use any of the ideas they liked. PARC was more like a scientific lab where people had ideas about computing and those ideas weren't really a big secret. So obviously it had a big effect on most computer projects, including the mac, since most computer pioneers have seen what's being done there.

And when Apple sued Microsoft, it wasn't because that Windows also had a GUI like the Alto. MS didn't really rework the Alto GUI, they copied the Macintosh one, with all the drag/drop features, the trash can, and other office metaphors which were purely invented for the Mac, and were not a part of the Alto GUI.

And people have a weirdly big difficulty understanding that taking something like the mouse off a laboratory shelf like PARC, and bringing it to the market as a mass produced device sometimes is a feat on its own.

----------

Seems like Samsung also shamelessly copied Dyson's vacuum:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24023430 :(

I have seen that Samsung vacuum and was like "WTF this looks exactly like a Dyson", which I know has a patent on its vacuum system.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.