just got my new g5 with a DEAD PIXEL-HELP

[840quadra]

What's interesting is the equilibrium reached when most people accept a dead pixel or three while only a few don't. This means that Apple is able to absorb the cost of a small percentage of returns without having to jack up the price of their products with LCDs because they know their "policy" along with "common" technological sense will hold off any large-scale demand for no-dead-pixel screens.

In other words, the people who demand perfect screens at a low price are only getting them because the majority of people are not complaining. Instead of arguing with or trying to change the minds of non-complainers, perhaps we should be thanking them.

-K

I see your side of the debate, but my spin on it is a touch different.

In my opinion it is Dell, Apple, and the others that tell the consumers that 2 or 3 dead or stuck pixels is acceptable, not the other way around. Since the Majority of consumers don't complain or contest this issue, the vendors and manufacturers can get away with it.

Remember while some recalls stem from safety issues or defects, many recalls (automotive or otherwise) are actually caused by customer complaints by people demanding action. When those recalls don't happen is when Class action lawsuits come into play.

While MOST of those lawsuits are frivolous and should not have gone through, many are actual issues that consumers would have preferred working out directly with the vendor / Manufacturer in the first place.

Only an idiot will accept it under any circumstances, sorry I just gotta say that. Even if I am an AAPL shareholder and it is in my best interests to *maximize Apple's margins* I will still not have it happen on *my* expense.

While I am on your side on this debate, I am ashamed to be with posts like this. There is no need to post slander, or bring so much emotion or venom into this topic. People are less likely to see your point, and will put up defenses, as opposed to listen to what you have to say.

 

[generik]

What I find humorous is the underlying tone that anybody who goes to Apple trying to get their problem fixed is being unreasonable.

Partly it is due to the mentality that Apple can do no wrong!

 

[dazzer21-2]

I just received a new Mac Mini and 17" TFT screen on a very special deal from a UK supplier. Out of the box it had 2 dead pixels, and after a week 2 more. I rang them and explained this, they had a new monitor to me in 2 days and picked up the old one a day later. Apple should honour this - as far as I am concerned, if I pay 2k on an iMac and it comes faulty (5-pixel buffer zone or not), it's not a 2k machine. Apple or no Apple, it's money back time I think...

 

[stevep]

While I am on your side on this debate, I am ashamed to be with posts like this. There is no need to post slander, or bring so much emotion or venom into this topic. People are less likely to see your point, and will put up defenses, as opposed to listen to what you have to say.

Libel is published defamation; slander is spoken.
I seem to remember one monitor company (CTX ??) having a guaranteed-no-dead-pixels policy, proving that its possible.
One solution might be to sell monitors in 2 different price bands. I'd be happy to pay a (reasonable) surcharge to have no dead pixels. And all the Apple fans who seem quite happy to put up with a load of junk just because its got a logo on it can have all the dead pixels they want. Seriously, there are some applications where a few dead pixels wouldn't really matter (such as the monitors on our servers at work, or for CCTV or whatever), so there is probably a market for imperfect screens.

 

[paulct]

I really don't understand this demand what is yours attitude, you got what you paid for a working iMac G5. Apple like every other company out there have dead pixel policies, Apples is 6 to 8 and then they'll replace it I'm sorry but it's life in the corporate world deal with it and move on.

i didnt get what i paid for - a screwed up screen is not a working imac

 

[decksnap]

i didnt get what i paid for - a screwed up screen is not a working imac

According to Apple and other companies' policies, you have a perfectly acceptable monitor, and a perfectly working Mac.

 

[risc]

According to Apple and other companies' policies, you have a perfectly acceptable monitor, and a perfectly working Mac.

What he said. To the OP I'm not saying it is fair, but it is the corporate world you can bitch and moan as long as you want but you did get what you paid for, you just aren't happy with what you paid for. It is up to Apple if they replace the machine or not, but they don't have to since according to their guide lines you got exactly what you paid for a working iMac with a monitor which is within their specifications.

 

[paulct]

thanks for all your opinions.. im about to make the call now.. ill let you know what happens

 

[generik]

According to Apple and other companies' policies, you have a perfectly acceptable monitor, and a perfectly working Mac.

Screw policy. By your logic McDonalds can just put a display on their front door announcing their company policy saying that "it is acceptable to consume food sold by our franchises and be hospitalised for no more than 5 days incurring medical expenses of $10,000 or part thereof?"

Well, they could try....

If Apple is so adamant on their policies perhaps they should put a similar notice PROMINENTLY outside each store and on a huge full screen banner before entering the webstore, let us see how it affects business.

What Apple is doing is basically put a notice in some obscure corner of their website, and point to it when something goes wrong. A good question the customer should shoot back is, "Is it a contract?", "Have I signed it?".

And yes, if all else fails, Apple did sign a contract with their credit card processor, just file a chargeback under "defective goods" and ship the crap computer back to the bank if that's what it takes.

 

[BakedBeans]

thanks for all your opinions.. im about to make the call now.. ill let you know what happens

Any news?

 

[aristobrat]

If Apple is so adamant on their policies perhaps they should put a similar notice PROMINENTLY outside each store and on a huge full screen banner before entering the webstore, let us see how it affects business.

With the exception of Apple and their Cinema Displays, I've never seen any mention of pixels from any manufacturer before purchase. How do these companies get away with it?

Just tell customers "too bad" until they mention the legal aspect of it?

 

[Capt Underpants]

thanks for your help/....i tried it and didnt work.

the pixel only shows up on a black screen and it shows up only a blue color

I have the same problem with my Dell 2005FPW. I would have used Dell's no questions asked return policy had I noticed within the first few days of ownership. I didn't notice until months after, though. It's not that big of a deal. Most of the time you won't notice it.

 

[xinxin]

Why is screen crap (I think only)

LCD screen generally worths 40% of the whole laptop value. So I agree that, without perfect screen, it is not perfect working iMac.

When I bought my powerbook, I actually kinda found this is cheaper than PC laptops. I spent 2700 AUD on mine. With the same money, you won't have a 5400 rpm hard disk + seperate 64MB graphic card + 2GHz equivalent CPU.

You can only have a slow hard drive, integrated graphic card and no more than 1.7 GHz PC laptop.

So I think to compete with PC, apple did reduce some labour cost in quality control, display became victim. What do you think?

 

[caveman_uk]

Making a LCD panel is child's play.

Go on then. Make one. This should be fun to watch....

 

[dmetzcher]

Screw policy. By your logic McDonalds can just put a display on their front door announcing their company policy saying that "it is acceptable to consume food sold by our franchises and be hospitalised for no more than 5 days incurring medical expenses of $10,000 or part thereof?"

Well, they could try....

If Apple is so adamant on their policies perhaps they should put a similar notice PROMINENTLY outside each store and on a huge full screen banner before entering the webstore, let us see how it affects business.

What Apple is doing is basically put a notice in some obscure corner of their website, and point to it when something goes wrong. A good question the customer should shoot back is, "Is it a contract?", "Have I signed it?".

And yes, if all else fails, Apple did sign a contract with their credit card processor, just file a chargeback under "defective goods" and ship the crap computer back to the bank if that's what it takes.

I completely agree with the statements above.

I'd like to see 50 or so customers take it to court and have a judge rule. I assume that if Apple lost the case, they would change their policy and make you sign something about the display, or at least agree to it on the Web site before making a purchase. If they need to be able to pass off defective equipment to the customer in order to keep prices low, fine. They just have to tell customers, and the customers have to agree. That's it. I wouldn't have any problem with that at all. Period. And to those who would say that the screen is not defective, that's pure garbage. If it doesn't work the way it was intended to work, it is defective.

An example is a new car. You buy it, get it home, and a week later the paint on the hood starts to bubble. It's just a small spot, about half a square inch, but you take it in because you just bought the thing. The dealer will usually fix this, as it is typically a paint problem. There have been massive recalls by car companies in the past for this exact issue. Would you argue that the even though the paint is ruined in one small area, overall, the call is certainly in great condition, and the customer should just eat the annoying little issue? It drives great, the lights work, it doesn't burst into flames, the check engine light isn't on right now, and the rest of the paint job is perfect. Is that good enough for you? I think that people need to stop giving Apple a free pass. I love their products, but I am not willing to get hosed just to help them be successful. They are a public company and that's their problem, not mine. If something is not ready for markget because you can't guarantee perfection for at least a few months (unless, of course, the user breaks it or causes it to break), then you should warn the customer that, in order to keep prices low, they must agree that 5 or less dead pixels does not get them a replacement.

The chargeback idea is a great one though. Tell them you're going to call your card company and charge it back, then ask them where to send the computer. Ask for a supervisor if they will not give you an address. You'd be surprised just how quickly a company will help you out when you do that. No one wants a chargeback. It's bad for business, and costs them money in chargeback penalties from their merchant account provider/bank. In addition, it's VERY easy to get a chargeback because usually the card companies are on your side, not the vendor.

 

[dmetzcher]

From Apple.com:

About LCD display pixel anomalies

This document defines the term "pixel anomaly", explains why such anomalies occur, and describes what to do if you feel your active matrix LCD panel has more than an acceptable number of pixel anomalies.

Many Apple products use active-matrix LCD panels, including the iMac (Flat Panel), iBook, recent PowerBook computers, Apple Cinema displays, and iPod models with a color display. In addition to being slim and light, active-matrix LCD technology provides customers with many visual performance advantages when compared to traditional cathode-ray tube- (CRT) based displays, such as increased brightness, sharpness, and contrast ratio.

Active-matrix LCD technology uses rows and columns of addressable locations (pixels) that render text and images on screen. Each pixel location has three separate subpixels (red, green and blue) that allow the image to be rendered in full color. Each subpixel has a corresponding transistor responsible for turning the subpixel on or off.

There are typically millions of these subpixels on an LCD display. For example, the LCD panel used in the Apple Cinema HD display is made up of 2.3 million pixels and 6.9 million red, green, and blue subpixels. Occasionally, a transistor does not work perfectly, which may result in the affected subpixel being turned on (bright) or turned off (dark). With the millions of subpixels on a display, it is quite possible to have a low number of faulty transistors on an LCD. Therefore, a certain number of subpixel anomalies is considered acceptable. Rejecting all but perfect LCD panels would significantly increase the retail price for products using LCD displays. These factors apply to all manufacturers using LCD technology--not just Apple products.

If you suspect your display contains a high number of pixel anomalies, take your Apple product to an Apple Authorized Service Provider for closer examination. There may be a charge for the evaluation.

That's from Apple.com...
I bought an iBook in the store. Was this document shown to me at some point? If not, I am not bound by it.

 

[Edge100]

Almost every company has a number of acceptable dead pixels. 1 is lower than Apples acceptable level.

It's one higher than mine.

Totally unacceptable. Keep calling them until they agree to exchange it or refund your money. Just because they have a "policy" doesnt mean they can do whatever they want.

Did you sign an agreement before you purchased the computer that said you accepted one dead pixel? No? Then, in fact, Apple owes you a return because their display does not meet their own specifications, which is 1440 x 900 pixels for the 17" and 1680 x 1050 pixels for the 20".

Demand a new computer, and don't put up with even one dead pixel.

 

[Edge100]

That's from Apple.com...
I bought an iBook in the store. Was this document shown to me at some point? If not, I am not bound by it.

Exactly! It doesnt matter what they say AFTER you purchased the machine. The fact is, Apple does NOT show you this when you purchased a Mac with an LCD.

Their displays DONT match they published specs, so they MUST give you a replacement. Keep calling until you get one.

 

[dmetzcher]

No what it is saying is equivalent to if you have one bad sector on your hard drive or DVD or CD. You are not allowed to return your computer if you have a hard drive which has one unusable block.

Doug

Fair point.
However, I think my original comparison was flawed entirely. A dead sector on a hard drive is not something that matters to someone looking at it. You don't care or notice, and it does not have any effect on your work (unless it has so many bad areas that you can't use a good amount of the drive).A dead pixel could potentially cause issues for those who need a good display, such as a graphic designer, or someone who works in photography. The argument can be made that, if you are buying a display for that purpose, and you have dead pixels, the manufacturer or vendor is not supplying you with the equipment you paid for in the first place.

 

[Edge100]

With the exception of Apple and their Cinema Displays, I've never seen any mention of pixels from any manufacturer before purchase. How do these companies get away with it?

Just tell customers "too bad" until they mention the legal aspect of it?

Yes, because most customers wont make a fuss. They'll just accept it and deal with the dead pixel. I will be buying a new iMac G5 after MWSF and I wont put up with ANY dead pixels (knock on wood...)

Look at hard drive space. Apple writes this at the end of the iMac page on apple.com

"# 1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less."

This is a disclaimer that you, as the customer, are responsible for reading and understanding. Your 250GB drive WONT store 250GB, but Apple tells you this straight up. Where is the statement that says something to the effect that:

"Screen resolutions are approximate. Up to 7 dead or stuck pixels may be present on your display"

Right, there isnt one.

If you get a dead pixel, DEMAND an exchange. Or threaten to contact the credit card company and do a return through them citing "damaged goods".

 

[Edge100]

What he said. To the OP I'm not saying it is fair, but it is the corporate world you can bitch and moan as long as you want but you did get what you paid for, you just aren't happy with what you paid for. It is up to Apple if they replace the machine or not, but they don't have to since according to their guide lines you got exactly what you paid for a working iMac with a monitor which is within their specifications.

NO! He didnt get what he paid for. He paid for a screen resolution of 1440 x 900 on the 17" (or 1680 x 1050 for the 20"). Does he have all of those pixels?

I thought not.

 

[dmetzcher]

When I purchased my ibook, I brought it home, opened it up, and booted for the first time....to see a single stuck pixel. Dead pixel? I don't know. Anyway, I took it right back to the apple store (1-2 hours later) and told them about it, and they told me I could exchange it ONCE for a replacement. If the new one had a dead pixel, then that was all they could do. So I could either keep that one, or get a new one and take my chances. So I opted for the new one, and got a perfectly fine display, all pixels normal (as far as I can tell). I was just very polite and didn't make up any stories about high end photography - i'm not sure if you buy it from apple.com if it is harder to do this though. I guess for that reason the retail store is nice.

I love shopping in the retail store. When people know you, and see you now and then (or often), they are more likely to help you out. In addition, we all know that it's much easier to be nasty/unhelpful/rude/whatever over the phone than it is to do that in person. Dealing with people in person, though we move further and further away from that every day, still has real value.

 

[Edge100]

Just got my iMac after waiting a long time.

And I have a pixel always on. It does bug me but I will get used to it. I spoke to Apple today to see if it could be changed. Not that I am bothered but I wanted to check before loading on all my tunes and pictures. Nothing worse than setting up a machine and then returning it.

A little disappointed about the pixel which is red and exactly half way horizontally and 2/3 down from top.

I have been 'massaging' the screen and running the video mentioned earlier on the thread but no joy yet.

My friend told me that he had an always on pixel and it 'fixed' itself after a while. Well I think he just got used to it and then ignored it in reality.

Anyway, here's wishing me luck..tim e to get the damn pixel fixed.

Don't get used to it! Take it back. If everyone just "get's used to it", the manufacturers will never be held accountable for their products.

I realize that LCDs may sometimes have dead pixels. But that does not absolve Apple from making sure that the ones they SELL are perfect.

 

[decksnap]

Screw policy. By your logic McDonalds can just put a display on their front door announcing their company policy saying that "it is acceptable to consume food sold by our franchises and be hospitalised for no more than 5 days incurring medical expenses of $10,000 or part thereof?"

I used to know someone who worked for a hot dog company. They actually have an acceptable level of 'miscellanea' content for their product. Meaning a given hot dog can only contain up to 2% or whatever non-standard ingredient- dirt, sawdust, etc.

I'll say it again. The issue is not the policy, it is the awareness or lack therof to the policy. If you would like your next LCD to cost $6,000, argue against the policy. If you just feel like you were not made aware of the policy, argue about their policy awareness!

 

[decksnap]

I realize that LCDs may sometimes have dead pixels. But that does not absolve Apple from making sure that the ones they SELL are perfect.

This would at least double the cost of Apple monitors.