Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. pat500000, Feb 23, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016

    pat500000 Suspended


    Jun 3, 2015
    Screen Shot 2016-02-23 at 10.45.53 PM.png Hey, Bill Gate....what was that you were saying?
  2. JGRE macrumors 65816


    Oct 10, 2011
    Dutch Mountains
    Explain what? You think the European Court needs to come to the US to enforce something on Apple? Apple is a multinational company with assets, operations and employees everywhere and can therefore be sued everywhere.

    PS: remember that small fine emposed on Microsoft some years ago? This was in Europe.
  3. mw360, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016

    mw360 macrumors 65832


    Aug 15, 2010
    You know they can break into your house though? And look through your meds and your underwear drawer? And they can tap your phone? And put a camera in your toilet? And look through all your bank accounts? And lock you up in a room for years? And electrocute you?*

    Why are smartphones so sacred?


    *American readers only
  4. gnasher729, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016

    gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    They just know more than the average joe on the street is told. If you read a headline in a British newspaper "Apple refuses to unlock TERROR PHONE", instead of the headline "Apple protects its users from EVIL HACKERS", people will get the wrong idea and come to the wrong conclusions.

    One should also mention that according to Michael Hayden, respecting the encryption has pros and cons but is overall better for national security - if all you look at is national security. He then goes on saying that if you look at financial consequences, like US companies competing in international markets, that decision goes from "slight advantage for encryption" to a "slam dunk", as he calls it.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 24, 2016 ---
    Regarding "nothing to hide": Did you know that in the UK, after it was found that many members of parliament had been fiddling their expenses, these expenses are now hidden from the public? "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. We better hide our expenses". Funny detail: Among the expenses they found that the husband of the then home secretary was charging his porn to his wife's expenses. You couldn't make it up. Did you know that the public in the UK is not to be informed if criminal proceedings are started against any member of parliament unless that person is convicted?

    Whatever the reason, it was the height of stupidity, because now all terrorists know that they need to remove anything incriminating from their iPhones. These guys can't think further than their nose. Now if they could have convinced Apple _secretly_ to recover the data from that phone... And if they had learned from British codebreakers in World War II and instead of bragging what they found keep it very quiet. For example, whatever the Brits found out in World War II, they would _first_ arrange some coincidence how they found the information, and only _then_ act on it. The Americans? "We found the location of this terrorists because he tweeted on Twitter, and we got him". Great. Now they stay away from Twitter.
  5. digitalcuriosity macrumors 6502

    Aug 6, 2015
    I still feel the only phone call the FBI would find on the phone,is a call to a local pizza joint to order a pizza.
  6. maxsix Suspended


    Jun 28, 2015
    Western Hemisphere
    And Hussein keeps growing the government further. The most slavish spender ever, he's in a race with time to bring capitalism down, meeting with BLM they're eager to help.
  7. Wondercow macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2008
    Toronto, Canada
    So, to quote Homer Simpson, "you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."

    Smartphones aren't "so sacred", privacy is. It is exceedingly unlikely that anyone would come to my home and try to break in; however, it is 100% likely that the US government wants to intercept, have access to, and spy on my data even though I'm not a US citizen, not in the US, and have not done anything to warrant surveillance.

    I have my home and my computers secured to the best of my ability, why should I not want the same for my cell phone?
  8. farmboy macrumors 6502a


    Nov 26, 2003
    A couple different things:

    First, although I'm usually a skeptic about "slippery slopes", I can't see any other way this can go if Apple has to knuckle under. "Lawful orders" can be issued by any judge friendly to your case, and then Apple must comply--federal, state, county, city, local law enforcement will all request data dumps. Hundreds of thousand of cases per year. Apple either has to set up an entire division to handle this or widely distribute the back door code. So no privacy.

    From an intelligence perspective, you never want the surveilled to know exactly what you know about them or how you got it. NSA etc. have certain capabilities that likely far exceed what most analysts understand. So they would prefer that this type of capability not be widely known. So how do you think the "dark suits in dark places" guys feel about the FBI erasing this advantage if they get what they want from Apple for a terrorism case that is unlikely to reveal anything more than they already know from previous data dumps from Apple, Verizon and others in this case.
  9. digitalcuriosity macrumors 6502

    Aug 6, 2015
    I still feel the FBI is using the shooters iPhone, as a good excuse to get the master key to everyones iPhones.
  10. sotorious macrumors 6502a

    Aug 11, 2010

    There is politics for you ladies and gentlemen. This is how they always get what they want
  11. Rhonindk macrumors 68040


    Oct 3, 2014
    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    While I agree I have to wonder what game they are playing to come out like that. Interesting none the less.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    and our alternative is a crooked lawyer who wants backdoor's into everything?
    Yeah buddy! Choices. ;)
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    There is always the option to relabel. :eek:
    Still, tread carefully. Overall crime (violent crime) is down however the trend of "news" to highlight and sensationalize is on the upswing. We know the news is always "right". :D
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    That depends on the poll being headlined. There are a number of them that show both sides winning and losing.
    Take your pick.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    "... and we are here to help. :)"

    mustn't forget the second part ;)
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    That is always a good one. In this day and age should we replace "greased" with "well lubed"? :eek:
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    Because my smartphones have more information about me and that I use in one single location than any other domicile I inhabit or item I own/use.
    and you wonder why mine are encrypted.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2016 ---
    Right and ... not quite.
    Let's say the FBI wins this. Move forward a few months and now you have the same request with the following additions:
    • Remote access and the smartphone user is unaware of it
    • Gag order so you can't talk about it
  12. thewitt macrumors 68020


    Sep 13, 2011
    Your neighbor accuses you of child abuse. Without proof, Child Protective Services comes and takes your children today, for their safety. It doesn't wait for a judge or a court order. You have to prove you are not guilty to get your kids back.

    The same thing is going to happen when you are arrested as a potential threat to national security. Your neighbor reported he heard you talking about how much you hate the president. You are arrested. Your phone is unlocked and it turns out that someone in your LinkedIn has financial ties to a suspected terrorist funding group.

    You go to Gitmo.

    Have a nice vacation.

    No crimes were committed. No judges were involved. You have just been victimized by The Patriot Act.

    You still want the government in your phone with only suspicion of a possible crime?
  13. Rhonindk macrumors 68040


    Oct 3, 2014
    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    Hmm.... and the count grows...
    The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has as many as 150 phones in evidence lockers that investigators can’t crack. The LAPD has about 300. In Sacramento, sheriff’s officials have nearly 90.
    Yup... the list be growing by leaps and bounds. :D

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