You're misunderstanding here is that form is function. Especially on a mobile device.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Key Takeaways of 2018 MacBook Pro vs. 2017 MacBook Pro
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You're misunderstanding here is that form is function. Especially on a mobile device.
You're mixing up all kinds of things. But yes, all kinds of form over function there -- but there were still Pro options then. It's gotten worse, much worse now. Apple's become a glorified toy company. I've about had it with Apple, and I'm not alone.
Yes, we complain. Why? Because at the end of the day, we love Apple and Macs. We want them and are generally willing to pay a premium for them. But we each have specific needs and other expenses and we need our computers to be future-proof and repairable. Repairing and upgrading help the environment anyway, since e-waste is escalating into a huge problem. In my case, my 2010 Mid level MBP has needed to be replaced for years.
Some concerns re the current MBP:
-Soldering the RAM and hard drive, considering the cost, smacks of profiteering and increases the price of repairs. It's completely unnecessary. They already have more money than God. What other reason could they possibly have to do this? Other companies have deterred repairs on their products through legal mechanisms, and it's ridiculous.
-The video card. They are including a $150 card. I don't need a top of the line card, but even a mid level option would've been nice. I'll happily take the hit on my battery. I'd really rather not need an eGPU.
If I'm going to spend $3500+ on a laptop, I feel that these are legitimate concerns.
For those who know that the MBP is what they've been waiting for, awesome! I'm glad your moment has come, and hope that transistors may smile forever upon you! I wish the answer was that simple for me and everyone else!
Some concerns re the current MBP:
-Soldering the RAM and hard drive, considering the cost, smacks of profiteering and increases the price of repairs. It's completely unnecessary. They already have more money than God. What other reason could they possibly have to do this? Other companies have deterred repairs on their products through legal mechanisms, and it's ridiculous.
-The video card. They are including a $150 card. I don't need a top of the line card, but even a mid level option would've been nice. I'll happily take the hit on my battery. I'd really rather not need an eGPU.
If I'm going to spend $3500+ on a laptop, I feel that these are legitimate concerns.
For those who know that the MBP is what they've been waiting for, awesome! I'm glad your moment has come, and hope that transistors may smile forever upon you! I wish the answer was that simple for me and everyone else!
EDIT for clarification:
The following was in response to the part that insulted me as "iToy fanboi", which apparently has been deleted.
Oh wow. Are you ****ing serious?
I've got a 2004 iBook G4 in my collection.
It feels about three times as thick as my 2016 MBP and at least double its weight.
Yes, FORM IS FUNCTION.
Last edited:
Testing one in-store and heavy use at my friends place, I believe my decision is correct that I did not purchase one. I hear complaints of the 2017 MBP from my friend all the time. If you are complaining about a computer, then it is not properly designed as it is used everyday by ones customers.
With the “lemming” attitude that I see from customers recently purchasing anything Apple releases, I feel the G4 Cube would have been a runaway success if it had been released today. Maybe the new MacPro is the MacCube with USB-C ports.
I remember the G4 Cube, well it resembled a floating computer however threw logic out the window for thermodynamics, I/O connectivity etc. Great product to look at and have on your desk, terrible product for everything else. These USB-C MBP are the same, great to look at with minimal design language and I/O ports. In reality day-to-day usage is terrible.
Some who had no option other than to purchase or did so because their “believe” in the 5-8 years away future I/O direction have to console their purchase choice. Accept inferior products and decisions from Apple and the next product will be even worse, take a stand and send a message.
Last edited:
- I don't think putting RAM or Flash chips directly on the logic board has anything to do with profiteering, but obvious space constraints. Look at the teardowns, these machines are packed out. There's a reason they still use standard RAM modules in iMacs and also separate SSD cards, because they're not space-constrained nearly as much as a notebook that's supposed to be as thin and light as possible.
I mean, would you call it profiteering that graphics cards have their VRAM soldered? On the iMac G3, you could upgrade the VRAM...
- They're not including a $150 video "card". They're including the fastest graphics chip available in the 30-35 Watt TDP range. You might happily take the hit on the battery, but remember the power it consumes is completely transformed to heat which you can only dissipate so much of in a given chassis.
Yes, I am ****ing serious.
And that G4 still has more connectivity options than your joke of 2016 MB "Pro".
I don't care if you Fanbois want to have your iToys .002 mm thinner than the previous generation. Just don't conflate it with actual pro machines and needs.
"In reality day-to-day usage is terrible."
Dude.
You're talking to someone who's been using the 2016 MBP day-to-day for 20 months and loves it.
So don't know what "reality" you mean, but mine certainly looks different...
I don't care if you retrogressive people want your USB-A, BluRay-Drive, Floppy Drive in a 5kg laptop. Just don't conflate your "actual pro needs" with every pro's needs.
On a more serious note; no, that iBook is severely limited in connectivity with its USB 2.0 type A, FW 400 and Mini-VGA. While the 2016 MBP just as the 2017 or 2018 ones have the most connectivity options you could imagine, thanks to Thunderbolt 3 which can in fact do anything...
Last edited:
Let me explain to you professional "regressive"...
Recently performed a major concert driven by my "ancient" 2010 MBP.
Plugged the MiniDisplay Port directly into the venue's video system to pipe HD video for the audience on a massive screen.
Plugged the audio breakout box directly into the FW800 port (no extra power needed) for all stage musicians.
Session files backed up to USB-A device and DVD in case of failure.
Also programmed a WiFi extender via Ethernet.
Just last weekend produced the music for a wedding. After finalizing music with the groom, burned an audio CD on the spot.
ZERO DONGLES/PERIPHERALS NEEDED.
Welcome to professional work in the real world, fanboi.
Yeah, when you carry around a bag of DONGLES that weighs 10x a much as your "light" MB "Pro". That's what your machine actually weighs.
Your name-calling undermines your arguments.
Calling someone a “fanboi” is axiomatically name-calling.
fanboi
Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with their particular thing.
Fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how ...inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking.
A Fanboy who is a fan of mac/apple brand products. the -i instead of -y is a reference to mac/apples use of i in names for their products.
***
There. You wanna consolidate it down into a better word for us?
You're the one who started with the insults and name-calling, yes that's what it is. I was open to having a serious discussion and still am...
Back to the topic though, maybe we can get this back to a more productive discussion.
I never claimed I was a professional user by the way, although I'm a student of mechanical engineering which probably kind of qualifies as professional use for a laptop.
You not needing any dongles/adapters with your 2010 MBP must be due to luck or good organization: What about audio devices with FW400? What if you encounter a display/projector with VGA, DVI, HDMI, full size DisplayPort? You need adapters or even active converters for all of that, not to mention Thunderbolt devices/displays which you simply can't use at all.
I always have in my MBP's carrying pouch three dongles which I rarely use: one Apple USB-A and two cheap third party HDMI and VGA adapters. Those three cost me 30 € and weigh exactly 66 grams altogether.
So, 1.436 kg, that's what my MBP "actually weighs". Your 2.040 kg (assuming 13"?) 2010 MBP would spare me only the USB dongle, 9 € and 10 grams, not even the HDMI and VGA ones...
However I do have basically any adapter you could think of, even though I don't usually take any of them with me. Including an Apple USB SuperDrive which I initially bought for my iMac in 2012 and barely ever used, three more USB-A dongles I cheaply got off eBay just in case, TB3 to TB2, TB to FW400, TB to Gigabit Ethernet, USB-A to standard Ethernet, FW800 to 400, HDMI to DVI, USB-C to Mini-DP. So if I wanted or needed to, I could connect virtually anything to my MBP.
If I were to put all of these into the carrying pouch with my MBP, including the 340 gram SuperDrive, it would still weigh less than your 2010 MBP, even assuming that's a 13" one, even though I'd have way more connectivity...
But of course I never do that.
It doesn’t matter what word you use. You are labeling people. You are writing off their viewpoints and opinions by distilling them into a word with negative connotations.
You are calling them a name. So you are name-calling. It’s the last refuge of people who have no other argument. So when you do it you are undercutting your position.
Ah, that explains it. The student telling the actual working pros how it is.
Some free advice: Learn some serious humility before you get out in the real world. You're gonna get your ass handed to you on a plate if you don't, rightly and repeatedly.
[doublepost=1531680982][/doublepost]
Still waiting for your better word.
Has it not occurred that calling people a name-caller when they're not is also name-calling?
Where's the eye roll emoticon when you need it?
- 1594 MB/s read, 1105 MB/s write
-Has a Killer 1535 WiFi module, says it can do 867 Mbps
-Bluetooth 4.2
-100% adobe RGB
-1 Thunderbolt 3 port
-2 external + the internal display, both external are reported to be able to be run at 4K using the built in HDMI 2.0 and a usb-c to HDMI 2.0 adapter.
-17mm thick when closed
-Weighs 4.5 pounds (2KG)
-Looks are subjective, but it looks like pretty much every "premium" laptop out there. Pretty minimalist design like a Mac.
On construction quality:
"How long will it last?
Longer than it needs to. Seriously, this chassis is rock-solid, and it will very likely outlast its internal components."
-Digital Trends
" It's still a clean and functional design that's built rock-solid" - Laptop Mag
On the trackpad:
"The trackpad is nice and matte, with just enough texture to differentiate it from the soft-touch material along the interior of the laptop. It clicks nicely, and responds well to basic taps and multi-touch gestures." - Digital trends
"The closest comparison is the MacBook Pro 13. Apple has long been the king of trackpad quality, but the Dell XPS 15 comes very close. Its trackpad is smooth, accurate, and it detects multi-touch gestures instantly. Plus, the XPS 15 still has a mechanical click, which might be a bonus for users put off by the MacBook’s simulated click using Apple’s “taptic engine.” -Digital Trends
"The 4.1 x 3.1-inch touchpad is top-notch and supports Windows 10's precision gestures. It felt natural to use three fingers to switch between programs and tap four fingers to open the Action Center." - Laptop Mag
On the keyboard:
"Typing on the XPS 15, even for long periods of time, never feels tiresome. The keys have decent travel for a laptop, offering just enough depth without feeling mushy." - Digital Trends
"The keyboard on the XPS 15 feels flat, but it's spacious enough that you can type without tripping over yourself. It has 1.4 millimeters of travel and requires 50 grams of force to press. While I didn't find myself bottoming out, I typed a tad slower than usual. On the 10fastfingers.com test, I registered 104 words per minute, which is below my 107-115-wpm average, but I maintained my 2 percent error rate." - Laptop Mag
-The speakers are reportedly "Loud but flat" and "lack oompf". If you use laptop built in speakers, might not be for you. For me personally is a non-issue because I always use headphones.
-It has a fingerprint sensor
Then you are missing the point entirely. Say I provide the word "Uberunicorn." There. Now you call people uberunicorns. It's still an ad hominin attack and name-calling, and it undercuts your argument by showing you have weak points to make. Instead of labelling people, consider the merits of their argument and respond with your own.
Ok, so he's a Uberunicorn. cmaier has defined it. Anyone who doesn't like the term can take it up with him.
Are you trying to troll us or what?
You called him a name. You insisted that somehow this was okay, because of the definition of the word. You provided the definition:
"fanboi
Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with their particular thing.
Fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how ...inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking."
Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with their particular thing.
Fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how ...inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking."
Every single sentence of the definition you provided shows that the word is intended to be insulting. If you want to be a trollish jerk, that's fine. Have at it. But don't pretend you are arguing from some superior position of authority or neutrality.
I think that's a pretty fair argument. But at some point, continued reduction in notebook thickness becomes an action that's being performed simply for its own sake and no other. It adds minimal value in the "form" department at the expense of significant value in other functionality, such as availability of ports, keyboard quality, and servicability of basic components like the battery, RAM, and storage.
And this is, in my opinion, when form ceases to be a part of function and instead becomes a hindrance to it. Hence, form over function.
[doublepost=1531683533][/doublepost]Let's consider why the MacBook Air was created in the first place. Obviously, Steve Jobs knew that there was demand for an ultrabook that valued thinness and weight above all else... but he also understood that this wasn't going to be an acceptable substitue for the pro line, which is why he didn't try to market it as a pro machine.
So why are so many people now pretending that essentially turning the Pro models into Airs is some kind of brilliant idea?
Serious question, are you truly happy with your 2016 MBP USB-C compared to prior models or have you just accepted your purchase and decision since you have gotten accustomed to the mediocre experience as this is the design for the next 4-5 years till the next major revision.
Be honest with yourself, what if this product had anything than an Apple logo at the same price, limitations and problems (Apple Keyboard Warranty Program) would you still accept your purchase decision. What else are you willing to accept from Apple next that costs more to loyal customers like yourself?
Remember Apple will gladly sell you an overpriced piece of metal (looks esthetically pleasing, brings nothing of value/productivity to the “pro-user’), as long as you are willingly enabling them to do so by your purchase decision.
Last edited:
You left out the Apple-specific definition.
On top of that, every single sentence of the definition is ACCURATE. If you don't like accuracy, or perhaps you're triggered, then it sounds like you're in need of a safe space, not participation in an open forum.
It’s accurate? You know the guy? You know how he spends the majority of his day?
Or are you just using the same logic all racists and bigots use - “it’s not racist because it’s accurate!”
Anyway, bye. Life’s too short to spend it arguing with trolls.
[doublepost=1531685314][/doublepost]
Don’t know about him, but I love my touchbar MBP except for the touchbar, which sucks, and the keyboard,which sucks and has been intermittently broken for me for over a year. Ports don’t bother me at all, and dongles isn’t an issue.
I wish it had a decent keyboard. I wish the touchbar had haptics or was tilted or better positioned so I could make use of it other than by accident. In some ways it is an improvement over my prior mbp, and in their ways it is a regression. I don’t regret buying it, but I wish Apple gave me a better option.
I know how he spends most of his time on this thread/forum, and that's what defines a fanboi.
Ohhh boy. Here come the racist and bigot dung lobs. = Intellectual sloth.
Yeah bye. Hope you fully recover from this incredibly traumatic experience.