Key Takeaways of 2018 MacBook Pro vs. 2017 MacBook Pro

[code-m]

Don’t know about him, but I love my touchbar MBP except for the touchbar, which sucks, and the keyboard,which sucks and has been intermittently broken for me for over a year. Ports don’t bother me at all, and dongles isn’t an issue.

I wish it had a decent keyboard. I wish the touchbar had haptics or was tilted or better positioned so I could make use of it other than by accident. In some ways it is an improvement over my prior mbp, and in their ways it is a regression. I don’t regret buying it, but I wish Apple gave me a better option.

So you are “generally happy” with compromises, am I correct in my understand.

My previous MBP 13” 2014 model, I had no complaints about it not one it was perfect. Like all devices with a battery the life started to shorten, however this is not a complaint it is a natural degradation of batteries.

My MBAir 11” prior to that was excellent as well, no complaints there. I ended up selling it as I had the MBP and don’t like collecting technology in my house. Prior to this it was the 17” MBP in all of its perfect glory, unfortunately macOS recent releases would not run on it.

With the 2016 MBP, it seems like an abomination of a product compared to the MBP legacy, it throws that great reputation in the trash. Very unfortunate turn of events, I am not going to go into prior Apple laptops.

 

[Petetastic]

- I don't think putting RAM or Flash chips directly on the logic board has anything to do with profiteering, but obvious space constraints. Look at the teardowns, these machines are packed out. There's a reason they still use standard RAM modules in iMacs and also separate SSD cards, because they're not space-constrained nearly as much as a notebook that's supposed to be as thin and light as possible.
I mean, would you call it profiteering that graphics cards have their VRAM soldered? On the iMac G3, you could upgrade the VRAM...

- They're not including a $150 video "card". They're including the fastest graphics chip available in the 30-35 Watt TDP range. You might happily take the hit on the battery, but remember the power it consumes is completely transformed to heat which you can only dissipate so much of in a given chassis.

Thank you for replying respectfully. You make good points.

 

[4487549]

I would happily upgrade my 2014 MBP if the 2018 model included:

• 1 magsafe port
• 2 USB ports
• 1 MDP port
• 1 Ethernet port
• A decent graphics card or compatibiity with 16GB AMD eGPU (not that budget 580 crap)
• The 2015 style keyboard that worked (and will not be a class action suit a year from now)
• Optional non-touchbar (with a discount)

We used to have all of those things (except a decent GPU) and at 75% of the relative price until they took them away from us. That's why we're disappointed by the compromises and offended by the pricing. Adding insult to injury, it's been 3 upgrade cycles of receiving this news, followed by the sinking realization that the next upgrade one year from now will not restore those missing features.

As it stands today, in addition to purchasing a $5000 computer, to restore existing functionality, I would need to also purchase:

• $700 eGPU with a budget 8GB graphics card
• $100 dock/dongles
• $Apple Care to cover their faulty keyboard

And sacrifice:

• Physical escape/macro keys
• Great keyboard
• Magsafe

Beginning to suspect the new spaceship campus is a movie studio for creating iTunes and Apple TV content because that's clearly where their arrogant priorities are.

And I certainly don't want to positively reinforce / reward Apple for making these bad choices by giving them my hard earned money.

 

[Abazigal]

Testing one in-store and heavy use at my friends place, I believe my decision is correct that I did not purchase one. I hear complaints of the 2017 MBP from my friend all the time. If you are complaining about a computer, then it is not properly designed as it is used everyday by ones customers.

With the “lemming” attitude that I see from customers recently purchasing anything Apple releases, I feel the G4 Cube would have been a runaway success if it had been released today. Maybe the new MacPro is the MacCube with USB-C ports.

I remember the G4 Cube, well it resembled a floating computer however threw logic out the window for thermodynamics, I/O connectivity etc. Great product to look at and have on your desk, terrible product for everything else. These USB-C MBP are the same, great to look at with minimal design language and I/O ports. In reality day-to-day usage is terrible.

Some who had no option other than to purchase or did so because their “believe” in the 5-8 years away future I/O direction have to console their purchase choice. Accept inferior products and decisions from Apple and the next product will be even worse, take a stand and send a message.

People buying stuff you wouldn’t buy doesn’t mean those people are idiots.

You and I could say that about just about every purchase anyone makes.

There are, right this second, millions of people spending money on things that I wouldn’t buy. Things that I could easily find an almost unlimited number of “better things to spend the money on”.

Perhaps I could take the time to tell them all that they should be buying something else that they don’t actually want, but I do. However, I think I’ll stick to just understanding that they probably have different tastes, personal circumstances, disposable income etc to me and therefore it’s probably best for them to actually just buy the thing that they decided upon with those factors taken into account.

 

[Abazigal]

Yeah, when you carry around a bag of DONGLES that weighs 10x a much as your "light" MB "Pro". That's what your machine actually weighs.

If your adaptors are weighing 10 times as your laptop, I think that’s more a user problem than any limitation of the device.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Ah, that explains it. The student telling the actual working pros how it is.

Some free advice: Learn some serious humility before you get out in the real world. You're gonna get your ass handed to you on a plate if you don't, rightly and repeatedly.

Your behavior in this thread and your grave lack of discussion culture clearly shows that you're not in the position to give me advice on how to behave.

I wrote what I had to write. In my last post I made an effort to having a serious discussion, which apparently you are incapable of since you failed to respond to any of the points I made but instead resorted to insulting me again.

Whether your apparent hubris is genuine or you're trolling me right now, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm done with you. Have a nice life.

 

[jgbr]

A few questions:

How fast is that SSD (actually)?
How fast is the WiFi (actually)?
What Bluetooth standard?
What color space does that display cover?
How many Thunderbolt 3 ports does that have?
How many external displays does this support, at what resolution and refresh rate?
How thick?
How heavy?
How ugly is it compared to a MBP?
How's construction/build quality compared to a MBP?
How's the trackpad?
How's the keyboard?
How's the speakers?
Fingerprint sensor?

Also macOS.
Oh well, and you're talking 22 % price difference there. I'll take the MBP over that any day...
[doublepost=1531664961][/doublepost]

What trend? I don't see a trend. People complaining isn't a trend, you never had to look far for concerns.
The Mac's doing better than ever though.
[doublepost=1531665138][/doublepost]

Can only speak for my own 2016 MBP, the power cable always slipped out easily, slightly more so on the ports closer to the display as those are more likely to be used for charging. All other cables or adapters sit tightly and continue to do so. I'm sure this is by design.
[doublepost=1531665251][/doublepost]

This! Thank you.
[doublepost=1531665779][/doublepost]

Your MBP was released in Late 2011. The first major macOS release to not support it, Mojave, will be out in Late 2018 so that's 7 years with current OS.
High Sierra will get security patches for another two years though, so that's 9 years of software support total.

(For 2010 models it's over 8 years with current OS and over 10 years total, for Late 2009 Macs even 9 years / 11 years. I'm willing to bet this will be similar for 2012 models.)
[doublepost=1531666824][/doublepost]

Here you are: https://ark.intel.com/compare/134906,134899,134903

Basically 11-31 % higher clock, 33 % more cache. So exactly the things you can also read on the MBP's spec page.

What makes it more expensive, besides Intel's higher base price for the i9, is probably that Apple expects to order the i9 from Intel in much lower quantities than the i7 chips because it's only available as BTO option. Also, there's usually a premium in margin for higher configurations.

This isn’t fandom it’s extremism to become so blind to claim the media nor public have raised concerns over what has been perceived as a lack of interest and investment in the Mac platform. Need I not mention keyboard and ports and what defines ‘pro’ just for a start. I am sure others could explore the slow turn around of upgrades and lack of GPU power, MagSafe and all sorts of issues. Your search for perfection from Apple and it’s defense is blinding you to intellectual and balanced analysis.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

- 1594 MB/s read, 1105 MB/s write
-Has a Killer 1535 WiFi module, says it can do 867 Mbps
-Bluetooth 4.2
-100% adobe RGB
-1 Thunderbolt 3 port
-2 external + the internal display, both external are reported to be able to be run at 4K using the built in HDMI 2.0 and a usb-c to HDMI 2.0 adapter.
-17mm thick when closed
-Weighs 4.5 pounds (2KG)
-Looks are subjective, but it looks like pretty much every "premium" laptop out there. Pretty minimalist design like a Mac.

On construction quality:

"How long will it last?

Longer than it needs to. Seriously, this chassis is rock-solid, and it will very likely outlast its internal components."
-Digital Trends

" It's still a clean and functional design that's built rock-solid" - Laptop Mag

On the trackpad:

"The trackpad is nice and matte, with just enough texture to differentiate it from the soft-touch material along the interior of the laptop. It clicks nicely, and responds well to basic taps and multi-touch gestures." - Digital trends

"The closest comparison is the MacBook Pro 13. Apple has long been the king of trackpad quality, but the Dell XPS 15 comes very close. Its trackpad is smooth, accurate, and it detects multi-touch gestures instantly. Plus, the XPS 15 still has a mechanical click, which might be a bonus for users put off by the MacBook’s simulated click using Apple’s “taptic engine.” -Digital Trends

"The 4.1 x 3.1-inch touchpad is top-notch and supports Windows 10's precision gestures. It felt natural to use three fingers to switch between programs and tap four fingers to open the Action Center." - Laptop Mag

On the keyboard:

"Typing on the XPS 15, even for long periods of time, never feels tiresome. The keys have decent travel for a laptop, offering just enough depth without feeling mushy." - Digital Trends

"The keyboard on the XPS 15 feels flat, but it's spacious enough that you can type without tripping over yourself. It has 1.4 millimeters of travel and requires 50 grams of force to press. While I didn't find myself bottoming out, I typed a tad slower than usual. On the 10fastfingers.com test, I registered 104 words per minute, which is below my 107-115-wpm average, but I maintained my 2 percent error rate." - Laptop Mag

-The speakers are reportedly "Loud but flat" and "lack oompf". If you use laptop built in speakers, might not be for you. For me personally is a non-issue because I always use headphones.

-It has a fingerprint sensor

Thanks!
Well, there you have it. Not to say the XPS was a bad laptop in any way, but the price difference certainly shows.
Big part of it is probably the flash, since on the MBP it's 2x as fast. Also four Thunderbolt 3 ports instead of one, the controllers for those aren't cheap and all of them support charging the device. External resolution is up to 2x 5K at 60Hz or 4x 4K at 60Hz, plus the MBP's internal display in both cases. If somebody is considering both devices, budget and personal needs will probably make the decision.

 

[Salaryman Ryan]

I'm really tempted to upgrade to the Quad 13. My 2016 13 is still doing well though but it would be great to have a zipper laptop for photo editing.

 

[cmaier]

I'm really tempted to upgrade to the Quad 13. My 2016 13 is still doing well though but it would be great to have a zipper laptop for photo editing.

I think next year will be more interesting machines, so I’m probably going to hold out updating my 2016 15”

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Serious question, are you truly happy with your 2016 MBP USB-C compared to prior models or have you just accepted your purchase and decision since you have gotten accustomed to the mediocre experience as this is the design for the next 4-5 years till the next major revision.

Be honest with yourself, what if this product had anything than an Apple logo at the same price, limitations and problems (Apple Keyboard Warranty Program) would you still accept your purchase decision. What else are you willing to accept from Apple next that costs more to loyal customers like yourself?

Remember Apple will gladly sell you an overpriced piece of metal (looks esthetically pleasing, brings nothing of value/productivity to the “pro-user’), as long as you are willingly enabling them to do so by your purchase decision.

I'll gladly answer your question: Yes, I'm truly happy with that device!
I would never trade it for the previous design even if that came with the same CPU, display, flash or even Thunderbolt 3.

Actually, I had been in the market for a 13" MBP for quite some time before the late 2016 model was released, but I held off my purchase because I was expecting some major redesign. After it was rumored to get USB-C with Thunderbolt 3, I was eager to see how they would do it: Go all-in on TB3/USB-C or keep some USB-A around? I sure hoped they'd go all-in. I liked MagSafe very much, but I couldn't imagine them ignoring USB PD after the 12" MB already got that. Having both? I would've absolutely hated that.
It turned out to be exactly the device I had hoped for, in almost every way.

I wasn't sure how to feel about the first 12" MB's low-travel keyboard before, but I was instantly sold on the 2016 MBP's more responsive version. After a few days, it almost made me hate typing on my iMac's Apple Wireless Keyboard, which feels extremely loose and imprecise to me in comparison. I'm also typing much faster on my MBP.

Is it perfect? Of course not!
I would've loved some advanced haptic feedback on the Touch Bar, but it's still way better and more useful than a row of static function keys.
Sure it would've been great if they'd back then managed to put in the larger battery (probably terraced like the MacBook's) the 2018 model has. Can't complain about battery life though.
And of course I'd appreciate if my keyboard was the iteration of the 2018 models, because it indeed is quite loud to type on (which sometimes annoys people) and sure the added ingress protection would be nice. However so far I rarely have any issues with my keyboard, and none at all which blowing into it or even a spray duster didn't solve, so I don't expect that to change. If it does, well, you mentioned the warranty program. I do plan on using my MBP for longer than the covered 4 years but the keyboard doesn't give me sleepless nights about that.

So again here you have it from a heavy user (6+ hours a day on average, from surfing to CAD work and games, lots of typing also) who's had the device for about 20 months: I absolutely love this MBP. It's great.

 

[cmaier]

I would've loved some advanced haptic feedback on the Touch Bar, but it's still way better and more useful than a row of static function keys.

Haptics would save it for me. As it is, it's absolutely useless for me. I never look down when I am using the computer, and i only hit the Touch Bar by accident. If you had to PRESS the touch bar instead of just brushing against it, it would prevent all the downsides for me.

Ideally I'd like it vertically oriented, like on the bottom bezel of the screen, so I would actually be able to see it when I'm working.

 

[BlargKing]

Thanks!
Well, there you have it. Not to say the XPS was a bad laptop in any way, but the price difference certainly shows.
Big part of it is probably the flash, since on the MBP it's 2x as fast. Also four Thunderbolt 3 ports instead of one, the controllers for those aren't cheap and all of them support charging the device. External resolution is up to 2x 5K at 60Hz or 4x 4K at 60Hz, plus the MBP's internal display in both cases. If somebody is considering both devices, budget and personal needs will probably make the decision.

I'll admit, the MacBook Pro can definitely do somethings better, but as a consideration, most of those things are fairly niche uses. I'm sure its great for those who need those features and are willing to pay, my main complaint with it is that people who don't need those features don't have a cheaper option for a powerful 15" laptop from Apple.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I'll admit, the MacBook Pro can definitely do somethings better, but as a consideration, most of those things are fairly niche uses. I'm sure its great for those who need those features and are willing to pay, my main complaint with it is that people who don't need those features don't have a cheaper option for a powerful 15" laptop from Apple.

You do have a point there.

My father for example needs to upgrade from his late 2008 15" MBP some time, but the 45 Watt 6-core certainly seems overkill for his needs and it's kind of the same for the dedicated graphics, also 4x TB3 isn't quite necessary. However I do think the extremely fast flash is a good thing even for non-power users, albeit 2 GB/s would certainly still be way enough.
The ideal device for him would be some kind of 14"-ish MacBook with a thinner+lighter tapered design like the 12" MB, but with one TB3 port on either side, 15 or 28 Watt CPU with GT3(e) graphics or maybe even the 15 Watt configured down to 9.5 Watt with passive cooling (If Intel ever releases a new 15W Chip with GT3, that is). Otherwise the same perks as a MBP, except for maybe the display color gamut or the Touch Bar, the latter he'd appreciate though.

However I disagree that there should be kind of a "budget pro" option that compromises on things like build, speakers, Force Touch Trackpad, display, ports, flash while retaining the fast processor and graphics. I don't think these are "niche" aspects, rather I'd call them "nice" aspects which everyone can appreciate. Compromising on those is not something Apple would or should do IMHO.

 

[canhaz]

I think the market already decided.

Nah. Because sales numbers won't say if a customer begrudgingly upgraded because they wanted better specs. I'd wager there are 3 camps of new TB MBP owners.

1. Prefer the new TB MBP but don't care either way between having a touchbar or function (fn) keys.
2. Prefer the new TB MBP and prefer the touchbar itself
3. Prefer the new TB MBP because of it's better specs, despite it having a touchbar. If given a choice however, they would prefer real fn keys.

I'd wager 1 is the largest group, followed by 3.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Haptics would save it for me. As it is, it's absolutely useless for me. I never look down when I am using the computer, and i only hit the Touch Bar by accident. If you had to PRESS the touch bar instead of just brushing against it, it would prevent all the downsides for me.

Ideally I'd like it vertically oriented, like on the bottom bezel of the screen, so I would actually be able to see it when I'm working.

I'm really excited to see where Apple will take this over the next years!

Probably their long-term vision for the MBP is consolidating trackpad, keyboard and Touch Bar into one large OLED or rather microLED touchscreen area with some kind of extremely advanced haptic feedback we can only dream of right now, allowing distinctive keys on the glass to be felt and touch-typing without compromise. They've already got some patents on how to achieve that.

When not typing, that area would add great flexibility, especially with the haptics.
From audio mixers or dynamic effect buttons to turntables or even gaming controls, the possibilities would be endless. It would probably also support Apple Pencil.
All while the upper display stays non-touch, pointer-controlled.

For desktop Macs, a new bezel-less 13"-ish iPad might take the role of that touch area, if not a dedicated larger tablet-like thing that might come with those Macs as an option.

 

[Jethro!]

If your adaptors are weighing 10 times as your laptop, I think that’s more a user problem than any limitation of the device.

Literary devices are not your friend.

 

[Jeremy1026]

My key take-away is that I have to sell my already over-mortgaged soul to get one and they will drop support in 6 years or less.

Hold on, are you seriously complaining because your phone might not get software updates for more than 6 years? Please show me any other phone that received updates for that long, or longer.

 

[Jethro!]

Your behavior in this thread and your grave lack of discussion culture clearly shows that you're not in the position to give me advice on how to behave.

Your response shows you haven't taken to the free advice. Good luck, kid. You're gonna need it in spades.

 

[cmaier]

Hold on, are you seriously complaining because your phone might not get software updates for more than 6 years? Please show me any other phone that received updates for that long, or longer.

What does this thread have to do with phones?

 

[Jeremy1026]

What does this thread have to do with phones?

Yep, thought I was in the iOS12 minor feature thread. Carry on.

 

[seek3r]

Let me explain to you professional "regressive"...

Recently performed a major concert driven by my "ancient" 2010 MBP.
Plugged the MiniDisplay Port directly into the venue's video system to pipe HD video for the audience on a massive screen.
Plugged the audio breakout box directly into the FW800 port (no extra power needed) for all stage musicians.
Session files backed up to USB-A device and DVD in case of failure.
Also programmed a WiFi extender via Ethernet.
Just last weekend produced the music for a wedding. After finalizing music with the groom, burned an audio CD on the spot.
ZERO DONGLES/PERIPHERALS NEEDED.

Welcome to professional work in the real world, fanboi.


Yeah, when you carry around a bag of DONGLES that weighs 10x a much as your "light" MB "Pro". That's what your machine actually weighs.

There are plenty of cheap adapters that will combine USBA/Ethernet/power into a single light adapter, and other ports wise I gotta tell you, man, if your big complaint seems to be no more firewire 800 there's really not much that's gonna solve that for you. No major manufacturer, and I mean no one, is going to be supporting FW800 on a standard notebook this coming generation, there's just not enough demand for it, it's a legacy port that *never* had enough market penetration to be decently supported. No matter who you buy from in the coming years if you're using old gear with FW800 you're probably going to need an adapter.

As I said before, even most professionally aimed laptops dont support internal optical drives anymore, no one who doesnt need one wants to lug it around. I havent missed it for years personally, and the main use that bay got on my *old* macbook pro was as a place to stick a spinning rust HD so I could use the main HD bay for an SSD, less of an issue with current capacities and better capacity/speed thumb drives. I wasnt the only one, optibay adapters were pretty common. External DVD drives also weigh next to nothing, cost next to nothing, and have the advantage of being easily replaceable if they break and being able to leave them at home when you don't need them.

All your plug needs can be solved with 2 adapters and an external dvd drive, hardly a clump of adapters that weigh more than your laptop as you claim, hell, it almost certainly weighs less than your power adapter.

tl;dr: you arent a typical use case, even among professional users of Apple's laptops, and your concerns are over things that are mostly becoming legacy on most manufacturers machines, not just Apple, and are fixable with a small number of adapters not a heavy pile of them, donglebook jokes aside.

 

[Jethro!]

There are plenty of cheap adapters that will combine USBA/Ethernet/power into a single light adapter, and other ports wise I gotta tell you, man, if your big complaint seems to be no more firewire 800 there's really not much that's gonna solve that for you. No major manufacturer, and I mean no one, is going to be supporting FW800 on a standard notebook this coming generation, there's just not enough demand for it, it's a legacy port that *never* had enough market penetration to be decently supported. No matter who you buy from in the coming years if you're using old gear with FW800 you're probably going to need an adapter.

As I said before, even most professionally aimed laptops dont support internal optical drives anymore, no one who doesnt need one wants to lug it around. I havent missed it for years personally, and the main use that bay got on my *old* macbook pro was as a place to stick a spinning rust HD so I could use the main HD bay for an SSD, less of an issue with current capacities and better capacity/speed thumb drives. I wasnt the only one, optibay adapters were pretty common. External DVD drives also weigh next to nothing, cost next to nothing, and have the advantage of being easily replaceable if they break and being able to leave them at home when you don't need them.

All your plug needs can be solved with 2 adapters and an external dvd drive, hardly a clump of adapters that weigh more than your laptop as you claim, hell, it almost certainly weighs less than your power adapter.

tl;dr: you arent a typical use case, even among professional users of Apple's laptops, and your concerns are over things that are mostly becoming legacy on most manufacturers machines, not just Apple, and are fixable with a small number of adapters not a heavy pile of them, donglebook jokes aside.

I could do without FW800 -- that being one of the few/only adapters might I need -- but otherwise, IN THE REAL WORLD, all this "old" stuff is still very much in use, and will be for quite a while. I don't want cumbersome adapters and peripherals when I carry ZERO now. What I haven't seen is any mass adoption of USB-C / Thunderbolt. Maybe it's "the future," maybe not, but this is the present where they're not ubiquitous, and that's where I work. And I think I'm much more typical than most want to admit.

Thing is, before Apple changed design philosophy to "form > function", they got it. e.g. While the first iMac ditched the floppy (not a serious computing machine), the Power Mac line kept it. My first and second PM G3's had floppy drives AND Zip drives. <-- That's how you do it. Both current/legacy and forward thinking. And that's how Apple should be doing it for their purported "Pro" lines -- keep the "legacy" (meaning: current) connectivity, while adding a couple new ports. Don't care if it's .2 mm thicker. Keep the thin bragging rights to the "Air" line, and the minimal connectivity / fashion statement machines to the "MacBook" line. At the top of the "Pro" line have all the bells and whistles available. They'd sell a ton of them (including me) and be heroes to everyone.

But it looks like they'd rather gaze at each other's navels at their new spaceship headquarters. Round buildings must make people imperious.

 

[seek3r]

I could do without FW800 -- that being one of the few/only adapters might I need -- but otherwise, IN THE REAL WORLD, all this "old" stuff is still very much in use, and will be for quite a while. I don't want cumbersome adapters and peripherals when I carry ZERO now. What I haven't seen is any mass adoption of USB-C / Thunderbolt. Maybe it's "the future," maybe not, but this is the present where they're not ubiquitous, and that's where I work. And I think I'm much more typical than most want to admit.

Thing is, before Apple changed design philosophy to "form > function", they got it. e.g. While the first iMac ditched the floppy (not a serious computing machine), the Power Mac line kept it. My first and second PM G3's had floppy drives AND Zip drives. <-- That's how you do it. Both current/legacy and forward thinking. And that's how Apple should be doing it for their purported "Pro" lines -- keep the "legacy" (meaning: current) connectivity, while adding a couple new ports. Don't care if it's .2 mm thicker. Keep the thin bragging rights to the "Air" line, and the minimal connectivity / fashion statement machines to the "MacBook" line. At the top of the "Pro" line have all the bells and whistles available. They'd sell a ton of them (including me) and be heroes to everyone.

But it looks like they'd rather gaze at each other's navels at their new spaceship headquarters. Round buildings must make people imperious.

I mean, I'm not gonna argue with you that they're not screwing the pro desktop line right now, total agreement there, they really screwed the pooch on that end of things. I honestly think they didn't realize how much the trash can mac pro painted them into a corner, and they overestimated thunderbolt adoption and bet the farm on it there. Hopefully they'll actually give us decent desktop options again when their new "modular" Mac Pro is released.

But on laptops? Ports maybe they're being aggressive on, though I think unlike the older TB ports on the trash can they're right on this one, TB3 will be royalty free this year so you'll see a lot more adoption, and USB-C is the next USB standard, so while Apple may have jumped the gun by a year or two they were probably betting (and, based on my own professional experience I think they're right) that most people don't use the ports much anyway and a dongle or two in their bag that they use once in a while is fine. I think the growth of cloud office suites + better wifi standards + more reliable APs + docks for those when working at their desk + cheap USB-C-->A adapters mostly validate that viewpoint. There are plenty of people that inconveniences but I'd bet they are a very small niche even among true pro users. As I said, we have dozens and dozens of 15" 2016 and 2017 MBPs around the office, and it's not really a problem here, it certainly isnt for me, I suspect that's typical. You, it inconveniences, but I think you're unfortunately (and, I get, frustratingly for you) in a niche within a niche.

And again, they're not doing anything anyone else isnt doing on the optical drive, they really are following the market there. I don't know many people who would trade the size savings for an internal optical drive, even people who actually *use* it like those on your end of things generally prefer externals.

 

[RandomDSdevel]

The one button mouse was annoying (to some - I was ok with it), but easily remedied with a zillion others to choose from. Ultimately Apple listened and made the Magic Mouse, which I'm using now.

Does nobody remember the Mighty Mouse?