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Kuo: Apple Car Team Must Be Reorganized Soon to Meet 2025 Production Goal

MisterK said:
The Apple Car is going to happen because:
  1. It's a $2.8 Trillion worldwide industry. There aren't many (any other?) of those.
    • The world's richest company can only make a significant difference to their revenue with something this type of size. Not niche Mac Pros at the high end of their desktop computers. Cars are (and should be) a higher priority.
  2. Cars are increasingly a tech and user experience product. That's what Apple does.
    • It's about aspirational status products, aesthetics/design, marketing, logistics, supply chain, materials, fashion, battery tech, computer chips, services...
  3. Apple has already been mapping streets all over. They've already sunk considerable resources.
  4. Whether or not you think Apple is capable of making an entirely self-driving, voice controlled living room RV on wheels, they are definitely capable of making an electric car competitive with a Tesla. It's a nice car but it's not magic. If Sony is capable of making an electric car, then Apple is capable.
I'm not saying they're going to do it by 2025. Nor should they.. It's too big of an opportunity to get it wrong. But in the next decade I don't see how they don't.
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Tim Cook can't bend EV supply chain to his will like he can with the iPhone. Apple's cash horde is useless in that respect. They can't increase development of raw material mines. Moreover, mass manufacturing of EVs and developing autonomous driving requires a degree of flexibility and rapid innovation that's just not in Apple's DNA. Tesla succeeded because they ruthlessly (and painfully) disrupt themselves over and over again. Apple's MO has been incrementalism ever since Jobs left us. That's all fine and good for milking profit out of consumer electronics devices, but doesn't not translate to capex-intense mass manufacturing.
 
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Sir_Macs_A_Lot said:
While that very well might be true. When making statements such as this...people should be prepared to backup those words if proven wrong. For example, "The day an Apple Car ever gets released...I will streak down a crowded public street, wearing nothing but a pair of flip-flops!"
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Haha. Will do.
 
This thread will age well.

With Apple's hiring patterns and key-partner Foxxcon building new EV factories abroad and in the US. Never... is a strong word.
 
I don't know, I just feel like Apple making car is just a bad idea from the start. I feel like its money down the drain, and if they really wanted in this market, they should have just partnered up with Tesla/Lucid or something. I don't know, just something about this doesn't sit right with me.

Then again, a lot of us were wrong about the iPhone as well.
 
Given how buggy Apple hardware and software has been for the last 5ish years, I don't think Apple has anywhere near the engineering skills to design something even close to a functioning car.

And we're talking about a car from the company that brings us $1000 monitor stands and $800 computer case castors. And that new LCD cinema display costs more in its base configuration than a 55" 4k OLED display. Their engineering is way out of touch with reality.
 
It's deja vu. When Apple was so slow and all over the map with it's smart home strategy.
By the time Apple got around to launching the HomePod, every other competitor had already surpassed it in terms of capabilities.

And when so much of Apple's designs are locked in years in advance, I feel like their car will be outdated by the time they roll it out.
 
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Sir_Macs_A_Lot said:
Sustainable? Maybe. Apple has about a 9% share of the computer market & 22% share of the phone market. While that's not bad...they need their other products (tablets, watches, earphones, accessories, music, TV Services, etc.) to keep customers in their 'ecosystem' and continue to build brand loyalty.
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But the question is… what’s next?

What’s next for Apple to really send them to the stratosphere?
 
so, we are talking about the need to reorganize a rumored team for a rumored product to be released on a rumored date.
Well, that is maybe too much also for MacRumors...
 
HiVolt said:
I really hope Apple forgets this, and lets people who make cars, make cars...

And no, don't compare it to when Apple entered the phone market.
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But those people have been doing a terrible job. Why wouldn’t you want a company like apple to come along and disrupt an industry as tired and held back as the automotive industry?
 
DevNull0 said:
…And we're talking about a car from the company that brings us $1000 monitor stands and $800 computer case castors. And that new LCD cinema display costs more in its base configuration than a 55" 4k OLED display. Their engineering is way out of touch with reality.
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Well… apparently they still sell those things, despite the ridiculous price tag. Many people here buy them instantly at release. So it might be some of the customers that are out of touch with reality
 
skippermonkey said:
I don’t rember Jaguar giving me my I-Pace for free. Wish they had. I don‘t think Porsche, Audi or BMW are giving their cars away either judging by the prices.
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They aren’t giving it for free, but they aren’t able to make a profit on it. Many are using it to help offset CAFE fines by improving the overall mpg of their fleet. This is the reason the Japanese automakers aren’t all in on it.
 
Realityck said:
I though Apple is only invested in the creation of Automotive SubSystems that can be used by various vehicles, rather then put themselves into the risk or lossy part of being a car manufacturer. Making Cars was never the goal. For a company that has incredible value you want to decrease risk with investments not compete in a industry that has multiple car manufacturers making electric cars that may or not do well. It’s why Apple never considered Tesla in any possible way.
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So why does Apple make phones, laptops and desktops? Why not just make software for someone else’s hardware? Why is a car different?
 
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2025?

I don’t buy into this. Look how many different rumors/conflicting news articles there’s been about the Apple car. Not only that, there’s just so much that can change between now and 2025, and it seems like this Apple ‘Car’ project has been nothing but in shambles for years since it was first talked about back in like 2016. At this point, I don’t see there being an Apple Car, but maybe co-developed software.
 
ghanwani said:
Does that come from cars or energy credits?
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Mostly cars. In 2021 they had $47'232M in automotive revenue, of which "only" $1'465M in regulatory credits. Their credits revenue has significantly fallen in the last years whereas their automotive revenue has increased quite a lot.
 
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Rogifan said:
So why does Apple make phones, laptops and desktops? Why not just make software for someone else’s hardware? Why is a car different?
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It's much harder to make cars. Huge amounts of capex is required to build factories. Car design is very onerous because of government safety regulations. That's not exactly in Apple's wheelhouse. And it's not profitable until you've scaled to half-million cars per year or more.

Edit: Not to mention coordinating a dealer and service network and associated parts distribution network. Remember, some US states do not allow you to sell cars (or even service them) if you don't go through dealers.
 
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macduke said:
Tesla doesn’t have much in the way of marketing beyond launches. They’re notoriously viral because they tend to make good stuff (mostly) that have crazy features that get a lot of coverage. Musk is also an internet troll who gets a lot of attention.
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Unorthodox marketing is still marketing. They did not become a household name, a status symbol, an aspirational brand, not to mention the largest market cap of any car maker by a long shot, by failing to market themselves. Unbelievably, Musk behaving like a narcissistic lunatic is a feature not a bug, somehow.
 
DevNull0 said:
And we're talking about a car from the company that brings us $1000 monitor stands and $800 computer case castors. And that new LCD cinema display costs more in its base configuration than a 55" 4k OLED display. Their engineering is way out of touch with reality.
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The automotive market is definitely one where brand value, premium and luxury high-priced products are proven to be successful. Check the options in a premium or luxury car's configurator and you'll see plenty of examples of "$1000 monitor stands" options a willing buyer can select.
 
Rogifan said:
So why does Apple make phones, laptops and desktops? Why not just make software for someone else’s hardware? Why is a car different?
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Apple has literally decades of experience building computer hardware and they were and still are pioneers in the field. They have exactly zero experience manufacturing a production vehicle.
 
bsolar said:
Apple has literally decades of experience building computer hardware and they were and still are pioneers in the field. They have exactly zero experience manufacturing a production vehicle.
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This is a great comparison and entirely accurate. This is why I’m not convinced anything that they’re building a car. At first, when Tim Cook had hinted years at it ago, I was inclined to believe maybe there is. But with all these constant ‘delays’, employee vacancies, Bob Mansfield allegedly stepping down, I don’t see the Apple car ever becoming a real ‘product’, but maybe something that’s venturing into that sector possibly in some tangent.

Either way, this prediction of 2025 means nothing, with the amount of delays/uncertainties moving forward.
 
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Rogifan said:
So why does Apple make phones, laptops and desktops? Why not just make software for someone else’s hardware? Why is a car different?
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You misunderstood my comment. When I mentioned "creation of Automotive SubSystems" I was implying that Apple supplies the processing/software/sensors for those Automotive Subsystems that get installed into cars.

Look at a Tesla isn't it like multiple programable computers with how it operates?

Also the meaning of subsystem is a system that is part of a larger system.
 
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mozumder said:
Level-5 self driving cars are NEVER going to happen.
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"never" is a long time...

Watch what Wamo is doing. They are the technical leader, even if they don't sell cars.

The way this technology is developed is the easy parts were done first, then the last 20% is al the hard parts they couldn't do. They got the low hanging fuit first. But this just means the pace will slow is they get closer to "done".

We might not have cars with no steering wheels, where the front seat faces to the rear in 20 years, but certainly we will have them in 100 years.
 
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