Kuo: Apple Mixed-Reality Headset May Not Appear at WWDC as Mass Production Pushed Back Yet Again

[riverfreak]

I'm not egocentric enough to think that everything Apple makes has to be relevant to me — a 55-year-old man. That said, I have purchased almost every Apple product at some point and have no idea what needs this product is supposed to meet. The rumored price point seems ridiculous, the idea of a battery pack around my waist seems awful, and I still do not know what I would ever do with them if I ever did get my hands on them. There is no "killer app" and no "killer use case" for this...yet?!

I can relate.

But as I’ve said elsewhere, if this offers an expansive, essentially boundless desktop experience, that could be amazing for productivity. The idea of sitting and looking at a tiny rectangle will seem instantly obsolete.

Couple that with more immersive and effective video conferencing and it would be an absolute instant buy for me.

I have zero interest in gaming.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

It's not about whether people found the PC cool or not. I'd argue that PCs never became "cool". They became useful. Back in the command line terminal days the PC served no purpose for the "average" user.

That's the issue with AR/VR. What's the utility? Why does anyone need it? AR/VR fans are constantly tossing out these weird edge case uses for AR and VR on threads like this, but none of them are mass-market ideas. We've had AR and VR hardware on the market for many years now, yet the entire category remains extremely niche.

I'm not saying AR and VR are useless, but if Apple (or anyone else) wants people to spend thousands of dollars on a device, it has to serve more of a purpose than animoji video conferencing and consuming media. The average person isn't going to see the value in that.

These are the uses for VR/AR, many of which appear scalable to the masses to me:

- Replace existing screens with a more versatile virtual screen of any size, any angle, any amount, curved or flat, 3D or 2D, it can follow you or be stationary and returned to, and can be shared via other AR or VR users across the globe.

- Have holographic calls where people are in front of you in full human scale and you can notice the small social cues that you might miss over zoom, talking/interacting will be more natural than other digital communication, and just overall feel more socially engaging.

- Tour real world places in the past or present all over the world.

- Have concerts and nightclubs, sporting events, conventions, talent shows, movie premiers, talk shows, theater plays, conferences and other virtual events that you can attend with others live where your brain feels like you are there.

- Attend a fully virtual school or university where it can be like a magic school bus ride where you tour the earth and solar system in real scale or go inside blood cells, making learning more fun, varied, and hands-on, with the ability to eliminate physical bullying, travel, and have a wider recruitment range for teachers.

- See reviews pop up outside a restaurant with the menu laid out in front of the building and life-sized portions of food in hologram form.

- Enter a supermarket and have a path on the ground drawn to each of items on your list in the fastest order, and it could tell you the ingredients of an item without having to pick it up and look at the labels.

- Try on clothes at home to your exact size by using holograms and seeing the materials in different colors/lighting and with physics applied.

- Have a personal instructor (not an AI, a human) show up right in front of you to assist you in all sorts of things such as a personal fitness instructor who could virtually bend your joints to get you to more easily follow along.

- Have notes and visual guidance overlayed onto various tasks like assembling a chair with holograms showing the chair in different steps and an animation of how to get there, or cooking with timers floating on different equipment, ingredients required and the required sizes of those ingredients shown in 3D.

- Control the volume of any person speaking, like an enhanced hearing aid that would be apply to even those who have good hearing.

- Give yourself zooming functionality, night vision, and a prescription that changes based on your needs such as reading, computer work, driving.

 

[citysnaps]

I didn't realize you were part of the design team! Until the device is released, none of us knows what they are developing. Furthermore, all rumors point to them developing a device that will have both VR and AR functionality.

If the rumors are true, the headset will allow pass-through video for AR applications, which means when there's no pass-through, it's a VR device. You can keep splitting AR/VR hairs all you want, but the device's form-factor sounds like it will very much look and feel like a VR device.

Either way, it's likely to be a bulky headset with an external battery pack. This has been tried before and the market remains decidedly uninterested, even at much lower price points than the rumored Apple price point. I'm still waiting for an AR/VR fan to enlighten me about the technology's "killer app". Still waiting.

Ouch...someone rush me to the burn unit. Stat!

And yet you're making predictions like you are, based on...rumors. That's OK if you want to believe it's about VR and will be a bulky device. We'll know soon enough. Several times TC has spoken about AR and Apple's interest. Try listening carefully.

Regarding AR applications...simply do a wee bit of research. This is not a new technology and has been used for years.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Apple does not operate this way. What Kuo sees as a “delay” is likely what Apple was planning all along. The Watch had quite a few months from the time they announced it to the time it was released — this could work on a similar timeline. I personally think that an M3 was poised for this product, which would mean a release later this year. Kuo’s comments make it sound like Apple is making an impulsive decision based on comments made from a handful of people — this is not they way they manage products.

 

[NT1440]

Wasting 6 years on R&D doesn't mean they "have to" release it. Apple (and most companies) try out a lot of ideas that just don't work out.

I was an early adopter of Oculus Rift and I don't regret it, but there's just not purpose to AR/VR right now. Apple has never created a product market from scratch, they take something that's already been proven a successful market, add their magic and blow up the market. Apple is not going to invent the AR/VR market in a dead space.

Apple planning to release an AR/VR headset is entirely speculation from these "huskers" you want to dismiss right now. So why are you so sure they were right before and wrong now? You are so critical of these people as you grasp onto their own predictions. It seems you're the one who's taken their first prediction as gospel.

I’ve been watching their patent filings, and updates on them for years now. Continuation patents don’t happen on items that are abandoned.

I get that the VR crowd has a love/hate relationship with this thing, but I can assure you that you all can hate it it because it’s not going to be a primarily gaming device.

What I can tell you is this is going to reset the AR space, just like Apple did with the smartwatch space, the tablet space, and the cell phone space. They’re never the first, but they tend to be the actual mainstream trendsetter when they do enter a market.

Patents aside, their years of ARKit development and direct hardware acceleration of it is a clear signal that they have large ambitions here, in the same way it was dead obvious to anyone paying attention to the A7 launch that Apple quietly announced that they are marching headlong into custom silicon for Macs.

 

[NT1440]

Apple does not operate this way. What Kuo sees as a “delay” is likely what Apple was planning all along. The Watch had quite a few months from the time they announced it to the time it was released — this could work on a similar timeline. I personally think that an M3 was poised for this product, which would mean a release later this year. Kuo’s comments make it sound like Apple is making an impulsive decision based on comments made from a handful of people — this is not they way they manage products.

I suspect as much. The perf/watt to make this viable is likely only achievable on the N3 process node, which is why seemingly everything got delayed that was waiting for it.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Most people don't play games. I get the gaming aspect of VR, but Apple is not a gaming company. They are a consumer electronics company that targets a broad audience. Whatever device they release will not be a gaming device. It will be aimed at a mass market audience and, thus, must have utility beyond gaming.

Microsoft isn't a gaming company either, they're a software and productivity and enterprise cloud networking company...and they still have a games division.

Meta isn't a gaming company, they're a social media and virtual reality company...and they still have a games division

Sony isn't a gaming company, they're a broad technology company who also makes movies...and they have a games division, and said games division is the biggest in the industry constantly releasing big blockbuster exclusives that sell 10s of millions of copies, and a HBO adaptation of their most famous game The Last of Us beat Game of Thrones' lifetime viewer count.

Just because Apple isn't a gaming company, doesn't mean they can't still get into the industry. Hell if they showed even a tiny bit of caring about the games industry there would be a lot more people buying Macs since the software they want would be available on macOS. The games industry is a multibillion dollar industry that at this point has more clout than Hollywood. Case in point: The fact The Game Awards last year had more viewers than the Oscars this month.

 

[NT1440]

Microsoft isn't a gaming company either, they're a software and productivity and enterprise cloud networking company...and they still have a games division.

Meta isn't a gaming company, they're a social media and virtual reality company...and they still have a games division

Sony isn't a gaming company, they're a broad technology company who also makes movies...and they have a games division

Just because Apple isn't a gaming company, doesn't mean they can't still get into the industry. Hell if they showed even a tiny bit of caring about the games industry there would be a lot more people buying Macs since the software they want would be available on macOS. The games industry is a multibillion dollar industry that at this point has more clout than Hollywood. Case in point: The fact The Game Awards last year had more viewers than the Oscars this month.

Why are gamers convinced they are the center of the technology world?

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Why are gamers convinced they are the center of the technology world?

Probably because they are and have been since COVID?

Videogames are a bigger industry than movies and North American sports combined, thanks to the pandemic

Not only have videogames grown to resemble competition-based, interactive movies, but COVID-19-related lockdowns have propelled the industry to make more...

www.marketwatch.com

Video games outsold music and film in the UK for the 11th time in a row last year

It’s been reported that video games once again outsold music and film in the UK last year, earning over £4.6billion

www.nme.com

The Xbox division influences a lot of Microsoft's business decisions nowadays. If gamers weren't the center of the technology world, Microsoft wouldn't be buying Activision/Blizzard/King for 68 billion dollars.

 

[JamesHolden]

Why are gamers convinced they are the center of the technology world?

This!

 

[Paradoxally]

Who in their right mind would buy one of these unless it's for professional use or dev work?

It's too expensive for adult content (the main use case of these devices), Apple sucks at gaming so forget that, and I don't see the average tech enthusiast dropping $3k so they can have virtual meetings with their friends or coworkers.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Who in their right mind would buy one of these unless it's for professional use or dev work?

It's too expensive for adult content (the main use case of these devices), Apple sucks at gaming so forget that, and I don't see the average tech enthusiast dropping $3k so they can have virtual meetings with their friends or coworkers.

The main use of these devices isn't adult content - it's the virtual meetings (with friends) part. That's what millions of active VR users are doing.

 

[Paradoxally]

The main use of these devices isn't adult content - it's the virtual meetings (with friends) part. That's what millions of active VR users are doing.

That's not what the public sees though. They just think it's a bunch of weirdos who never actually meet up with their friends - or people who have none IRL.

And quite frankly, the adult content use case is far more appealing to the average person when you can tell them they can "hook up" with say, their favorite celebrity.

Regardless, no one is going to pay 3k for those experiences you can have for 1/10 the price now. Apple is delusional, and the employees are right. They release it like this, it's more DOA than AirPower ever was.

 

[TVreporter]

These are the uses for VR/AR, many of which appear scalable to the masses to me:

- Replace existing screens with a more versatile virtual screen of any size, any angle, any amount, curved or flat, 3D or 2D, it can follow you or be stationary and returned to, and can be shared via other AR or VR users across the globe.

- Have holographic calls where people are in front of you in full human scale and you can notice the small social cues that you might miss over zoom, talking/interacting will be more natural than other digital communication, and just overall feel more socially engaging.

- Tour real world places in the past or present all over the world.

- Have concerts and nightclubs, sporting events, conventions, talent shows, movie premiers, talk shows, theater plays, conferences and other virtual events that you can attend with others live where your brain feels like you are there.

- Attend a fully virtual school or university where it can be like a magic school bus ride where you tour the earth and solar system in real scale or go inside blood cells, making learning more fun, varied, and hands-on, with the ability to eliminate physical bullying, travel, and have a wider recruitment range for teachers.

- See reviews pop up outside a restaurant with the menu laid out in front of the building and life-sized portions of food in hologram form.

- Enter a supermarket and have a path on the ground drawn to each of items on your list in the fastest order, and it could tell you the ingredients of an item without having to pick it up and look at the labels.

- Try on clothes at home to your exact size by using holograms and seeing the materials in different colors/lighting and with physics applied.

- Have a personal instructor (not an AI, a human) show up right in front of you to assist you in all sorts of things such as a personal fitness instructor who could virtually bend your joints to get you to more easily follow along.

- Have notes and visual guidance overlayed onto various tasks like assembling a chair with holograms showing the chair in different steps and an animation of how to get there, or cooking with timers floating on different equipment, ingredients required and the required sizes of those ingredients shown in 3D.

- Control the volume of any person speaking, like an enhanced hearing aid that would be apply to even those who have good hearing.

- Give yourself zooming functionality, night vision, and a prescription that changes based on your needs such as reading, computer work, driving.

Tremendous list but you forgot one that will dominate:

Pornography

 

[Paradoxally]

Tremendous list but you forgot one that will dominate:

Pornography

For many, the only use case for VR.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

That's not what the public sees though. They just think it's a bunch of weirdos who never actually meet up with their friends - or people who have none IRL.

Well you're not wrong. There's a perception problem with VR/AR and its usecases.

 

[Paradoxally]

Well you're not wrong. There's a perception problem with VR/AR and its usecases.

The perception problem is because it just looks weird to have VR headset attached to your head, regardless of the use case.

AR is different. The idea is that you are fully aware of your surroundings, but it's augmented with information that you would typically use your phone for. To me, this has way more potential to fit into people's lives, if it's something like an advanced Google Glass with an unintrusive design. It could even replace smartphones entirely in the distant future.

 

[Lcgiv]

I don’t understand why Apple can’t start more basic and affordable and work their way up. Versus never having a productZ The market is filling (albeit fairly slowly), just like foldables (yes I know love or hate). Scrap it or do it, but repeat delays only mean vast numbers of people working on it have moved on and things get lost in transitions, redesign, redesign, R&D money, and it still might be a flop…

 

[DarthBuzzard]

The perception problem is because it just looks weird to have VR headset attached to your head, regardless of the use case.

AR is different. The idea is that you are fully aware of your surroundings, but it's augmented with information that you would typically use your phone for. To me, this has way more potential to fit into people's lives, if it's something like an advanced Google Glass with an unintrusive design. It could even replace smartphones entirely in the distant future.

It isn't just that it looks weird. People have a very, very hard time understanding the uses of a technology that interfaces with a 3D virtual world. I'm sure there are multiple reasons, one being that people have no idea VR is actually 3D depth-correct, and another being the logic chain of "Virtual worlds?" -> "Oh, videogames" -> "So no practical uses then." -> "Just for gaming."

This is why people get sci-fi hologram communication. "Hologram meetings with my friend? I'm sold!" but when the exact same situation with the same graphical fidelity plays out in a virtual world people will say "Huh? Why not just videocall them instead of playing a video game."

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

This is just going to look awfully weird.

 

[Someyoungguy]

Doesn’t Samsung usually copy the best ideas and try to beat Apple to market, as with the watch? Does Samsung have any kind of VR/AR headset? I haven’t heard of one. This isn’t airtight reasoning, but it indicates to me that Apple may be more alone than usual on this one. This could mean a truly innovative product, but that’s unlikely given the previous rumor about employer misgivings.

 

[drumcat]

Kuo was wrong, again? You don't say...

Tired of his awful track record.

 

[gund1234]

Pushed back again huh? Classic Tim Apple move here. This thing is going to flop anyway, so it might as well just go the way of the AirPower at this point. What a joke! At least people are finally waking up, slowly but surely, to what Apple has become.

These are just rumors, take it easy, they will release the product when they think it is ready.

 

[MacFan782040]

But it hasn't been introduced yet, so you can't say the first two of these points with anything approaching certainty.
And of course there will be questions, pre-release…

You are correct. These are just rumors. But I can see the writing on the wall now. Apparently a lot of Apple employees can too. They should be applying AI to their existing products and services. Not taking resources away for silly $3000 glasses that nobody will buy. Maybe in 5 years when that tech has matured but if you release this you taint your market and element of surprise.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

The main use of these devices isn't adult content - it's the virtual meetings (with friends) part. That's what millions of active VR users are doing.

Isn't that just the metaverse though? I feel like a lot of the commentary on this is "it's not going to be the metaverse...[proceeds to describe something that sounds just like the metaverse]"