Kuo: If Face ID is 'Well Received,' It's Likely 2018 iPhones Will Fully Adopt TrueDepth Camera

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo this afternoon published a new research note for investors where he speculates about what Apple might do in future iPhones regarding Touch ID and Face ID. Investors, like many of us, are curious whether Apple plans to eliminate Touch ID in favor of Face ID, embrace a dual biometric solution, or swap back to Touch ID once a viable under display solution is available.

    Kuo believes Apple's future plans will hinge on whether or not Face ID is well received by the public.

    Should Face ID be well received by consumers who purchase the iPhone X, Kuo believes there's a higher likelihood 2018 iPhone models will adopt the TrueDepth Camera and support Face ID.

    Should Apple choose to return to Touch ID as either a dual biometric solution or a Face ID replacement should Face ID not fare well, Kuo believes any forthcoming Touch ID option will be built under the iPhone's display. 3D Touch, though, will make it challenging for Apple to develop an under-display solution.
    If Face ID does indeed go over well with consumers and makes its way into additional iOS devices in 2018, Kuo believes Apple's Android competitors will make an effort to speed up facial recognition development, boosting manufacturers who supply facial recognition components.

    Face ID will be in the hands of consumers this November, following the launch of the iPhone X. As Face ID is a new biometric system, there have been a lot of questions and doubts about privacy, security, and functionality, but Apple's Craig Federighi has attempted to alleviate the uncertainty with a series of interviews.

    In a recent discussion with Daring Fireball's John Gruber, Federighi said that once Face ID is in the hands of consumers, all of that uncertainty will just "melt away." The feature "just works," he says. "You don't even have to think about it."

    Article Link: Kuo: If Face ID is 'Well Received,' It's Likely 2018 iPhones Will Fully Adopt TrueDepth Camera
  2. ct2k7 macrumors 603


    Aug 29, 2008
    London or Florida
    I look forward to it, but it's got to prove itself to me this year.

    I'm used to Touch ID; it just works well for my case.

    I don't see Apple going back to Touch ID.
  3. Appleaker macrumors 68020

    Jun 13, 2016
    Well if all models are to get the new design then that is the presumption.
    Although Touch ID (once developed) integration along with Face ID is still a consideration, not yet ruled out by Apple.
  4. canadianreader macrumors 6502a


    Sep 24, 2014
    I have a feeling that Touch ID is gone just like the headphone jack.
  5. BornAgainMac macrumors 603


    Feb 4, 2004
    Florida Resident
    Why is it that woman looking at her phone and she looks upset? Like it doesn't recognize her with her new look.
  6. green94 macrumors regular

    Mar 17, 2009
    It’s not like they are going to take out, they’ve made their bet on Face recognition. If anything, they bring back TouchID under the display as mentioned. But FaceID isn’t going anywhere.
  7. Chatter macrumors 6502a

    Jun 10, 2013
    Uphill from Downtown
    100% wild guess here - but I think they will eventually have both. Touch ID under glass and Face ID. And I think both will simultaneously be used for authentication and unlocking the device. Essentially more security.
  8. Ds6778 macrumors 6502a


    Sep 9, 2016
    I seriously can’t think of a situation where Face ID is more convenient then Touch ID. I can think of a dozen ways Touch ID would be, though.
  9. Aussi3 macrumors 6502


    Jun 3, 2012
    Facesticks on the App store
    Hopefully it works just as well if not better then Touch ID can’t wait :)
  10. djcerla macrumors 68000


    Apr 23, 2015
    Wet hands and gloves. There you have it, two of them.
  11. QCassidy352 macrumors G4


    Mar 20, 2003
    Bay Area
    I could, if there wasn't also the swipe up requirement. Having that seems to assure Face ID will be as much or more work than Touch ID.
  12. dominiongamma macrumors 65816

    Oct 19, 2014
    Tempe, Arizona
    They just added it to MacBooks which is confusing
  13. noraa macrumors regular

    Jun 23, 2003
    It would be brilliant if you could have both touchid and faceid and use it as a two factor authentication. Hold your finger on the fingerprint reader while looking at the phone to unlock.
  14. macTW Suspended

    Oct 17, 2016
    I expect a solid reception. This isn't a gimmick - the amount of modeling and security built into face ID is more than any previous phone biometric system.

    Most people criticizing it have yet to use it themselves. They're relying on media members paid not for the truth but for clicks on their website.
  15. noraa macrumors regular

    Jun 23, 2003
    Wet fingers is a big one. If the swipe up gesture can be eliminated, then also while wearing gloves would fit in there.
  16. dominiongamma macrumors 65816

    Oct 19, 2014
    Tempe, Arizona
    He is very accurate with his predictions, I wouldn’t bet against him
  17. noraa macrumors regular

    Jun 23, 2003
    For better or worse Kuo's predictions and analysis have prevented to be quite accurate. He was the first person to suggest the iPhone X would eliminate touch id
  18. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

    Feb 6, 2007
    have you tried?
  19. AZREOSpecialist macrumors 68020


    Mar 15, 2009
    This is why I won't be upgrading this year. My 6 Plus is just fine for my needs.
  20. now i see it macrumors 68030

    Jan 2, 2002
    The 'problem' with Face ID is that it's automatic. You don't have the ability to "bail out" of an authentication process. You will automatically authenticate whether you want to or not.

    With Touch ID, you're ALWAYS presented with an option to choose to use it or not. It's never automatic.

    Seems to me, automatic authentication via face scanning with no user ability to opt out (if Face ID is enabled) could be abused some way by nefarious operators into duping a user into making a choice they rather would not.

    Time will tell.
  21. FreeState macrumors 68000


    Jun 24, 2004
    San Diego, CA
    Turning an alarm down by looking at your phone is way more convenient IMO.
  22. iamshine macrumors newbie

    Sep 5, 2012
    so IF it is not well-received, Apple will remove the feature in future phones?
  23. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Jul 16, 2002
    Good lord, is this ever a silly question. Apple would not have released this technology if they thought it had any chance of not being well received by customers. The odds of them going backwards are so close to nil as to not even be worth calculating. The only question that should be asked is how long it will take for this tech to migrate to the entire iOS line.
  24. FreeState, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017

    FreeState macrumors 68000


    Jun 24, 2004
    San Diego, CA

    With FaceID it is the same. When the phone recognizes you, assuming you didn't look away quick enough if you don't slide up the screen to unlock it the phone will auto after a set time.

    Edit to add:

    According to Apple’s developer documentation, the Face ID authentication dialog contains a Cancel button, as well as a passcode fallback button which is initially hidden and shows up after first unsuccessful attempts.


    If Touch ID or Face ID is not available or not enrolled, policy evaluation fails. Both Touch ID and Face ID authentication are disabled after 5 unsuccessful attempts, requiring the user to enter the device passcode in order to be reenabled.

    The authentication dialog contains a cancel button with default title, which can be customized using the localizedCancelTitle property as well as a fallback button, which can be customized using localizedFallbackTitle property. The fallback button is initially hidden and shows up after first unsuccessful Touch ID or Face ID attempt. Tapping the cancel button or the fallback button causes the evaluatePolicy(_:localizedReason:reply:) method to fail.​
  25. Marshall73 macrumors 65816


    Apr 20, 2015
    Face ID is here to stay. Biometrics plus facial scanning for app stuff. Get rid of the home button as it was a point of failure hardware wise.

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