Kuo: If Face ID is 'Well Received,' It's Likely 2018 iPhones Will Fully Adopt TrueDepth Camera

[PickUrPoison]

It’s being discussed because some people have thinking issues.

1) There are other parts of the world outside of NYC that don’t require hands-free. I’m not the one who meandered and brought up NYC because I was not able to win the argument. Forget about NYC, it’s a red herring.

2) even with hands-free, you have to take your eyes off the road to unlock with FaceID. With TouchID I do not have to take my eyes off the road to unlock or to open apps. I can use Siri once unlocked. With FaceID you have to look at the phone to unlock it in order to open most apps - Siri won’t open every app when locked. You don’t have to hold a phone to use TouchID just like you don’t have to hold a phone to swipe up if mounted in both situations.

smh so f’ing much

You can set FaceID so you don’t have to look at the screen to unlock it.

 

[nylon]

So you’re saying Steve would have made under screen Touch ID work and Steve would realize FaceID is inelegant, and this is a Tim Cook win. Gotcha.

Own your words. When you say Steve could have done it (but Tim Cook failed to), I’m not the one “projecting” a failure by Tim Cook in your statement.

I said Steve would have moved heaven and earth. The comment stands on its own as it goes to the character of Steve Jobs and his singular focus. You're trying to make this about Tim Cook for some reason. I never mentioned Tim Cook at all. That is an inference entirely of your own. It comes across as a bit of a Freudian slip on your part. No one said that Tim Cook or Apple have failed, especially since they already have a patent on Touch ID under the display.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I said Steve would have moved heaven and earth. The comment stands on its own as it goes to the character of Steve Jobs and his singular focus. You're trying to make this about Tim Cook for some reason. I never mentioned Tim Cook at all. That is an inference entirely of your own. It comes across as a bit of a Freudian slip on your part. No one said that Tim Cook or Apple have failed, especially since they already have a patent on Touch ID under the display.

I get it, I get it... when you say Steve Jobs would have never approve of replacing TouchID with FaceID, you are praising Apple/Cook for having done so. Makes sense.

 

[nylon]

I get it, I get it... when you say Steve Jobs would have never approve of replacing TouchID with FaceID, you are praising Apple/Cook for having done so. Makes sense.

I never said that either. To paraphrase I said that SJ would have considered Face ID an inelegant solution as compared with Touch ID from a usability perspective. You keep on trying to put words in my mouth to justify your position but I'm sorry to say it's a weak attempt.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I never said that either. To paraphrase I said that SJ would have considered Face ID an inelegant solution as compared with Touch ID from a usability perspective. You keep on trying to put words in my mouth to justify your position but I'm sorry to say it's a weak attempt.

Maybe I can help you understand implied criticism:

You replace Steve in a job designing logos. Your boss comes in complaining to you, “Steve would never have made a logo like this” and walks out of your office. Pro tip: you have been criticized. Call it projection or a Freudian slip if you wish, but he just told you that you suck at your job.

Now if you go ask him, “why don’t you like my work” and he says, “whatever are you talking about? I never said I didn’t like your work”—well then, he would be doing what you’ve been doing in this thread.

But by all means, continue your weak attempts to feign ignorance. And for the record, Steve Jobs would have loved FaceID

 

[nylon]

Maybe I can help you understand implied criticism:

You replace Steve in a job designing logos. Your boss comes in complaining to you, “Steve would never have made a logo like this” and walks out of your office. Pro tip: you have been criticized. Call it projection or a Freudian slip if you wish, but he just told you that you suck at your job.

Now if you go ask him, “why don’t you like my work” and he says, “whatever are you talking about? I never said I didn’t like your work”—well then, he would be doing what you’ve been doing in this thread.

But by all means, continue your weak attempts to feign ignorance. And for the record, Steve Jobs would have loved FaceID

Your 'implied criticism' is just another straw man. It's a logical fallacy. Look it up. It's 'implied' only in your mind which is why I called it a Freudian slip. And no I don't think he would have loved it. He would have shelved it until it was ready and said it doesn't simplify the experience as compared with Touch ID.

I'm going to quote my original post again so that when you try and construct a rational argument you can be accurate with your point of reference. The qualifications for that statement follows in subsequent posts.

Steve would have moved heaven and earth to make sure that Touch ID below display panel was implemented in iPhone X. That would have been more of a wow factor.

To be make it easier for you to understand basic logic. Here is a breakdown.

1. I assert proposition X (my original statement above)
2. You argue against a superficially similar proposition Y (which you called an implied criticism), falsely, as if an argument Y were an argument against X.

A logical response to my statement would have been. "No I disagree, SJ would not have moved heaven and earth...." and then explained why. You brought Tim Cook into it to satisfy your own subconscious need to defend Tim Cook. Tim Cook was not the subject of my statement.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Your 'implied criticism' is just another straw man. It's a logical fallacy. Look it up.

Whatever... I’ll take you at your word that you don’t understand the implications of your words, but it does seem intentionally obtuse.

But, facts:

1) Apple replaced TouchID on iPhone X because they think FaceID is a better user experience. I get that you (and Steve’s ghost) think you know better than Apple, but I’ll go with Apple on this; no offense.

2) Apple has stated TouchID under screen was plan B if they couldn’t get FaceID working in time. But they did, so bye bye TouchID.

3) You don’t know what Steve would have done or thought or wanted. Quit presuming to speak for the man. (Refuting statement one in your original post.)

Opinion (mine): Biometric authentication using facial recognition via infrared 3D imaging is more of a wow factor than changing where on the front glass you put your finger. (Refuting statement two in your original post.)

 

[nylon]

Whatever... I’ll take you at your word that you don’t understand the meaning of your words, but it does seem intentionally obtuse.

But, facts:

1) Apple replaced TouchID on iPhone X because they think FaceID is a better user experience. I get that you (and Steve’s ghost) think you know better than Apple, but I’ll go with Apple on this; no offense.

2) Apple has stated TouchID under screen was plan B if they couldn’t get FaceID working in time. But they did, so bye bye TouchID.

3) You don’t know what Steve would have done or thought or wanted. Quit presuming to speak for the man.

Yeah "whatever" is right. It's not my fault you got triggered and then entered into a fallacious quest to justify an irrational need to defend someone that was not under attack. Keep your emotions in check. Too many people read into things just to argue needlessly and then end up conjuring up arguments to argue against. Personally I think Tim Cook is doing a fantastic job. He is not Steve Jobs and isn't trying to be. Apple has prospered enormously under Cook. In response to your points.

1) There is no evidence of this. The demos of Face ID themselves show that the user experience is not as seamless as Touch ID. The fact that it is a two step process and requires facial positioning and focus bare this out.

2) Provide your source on this. My belief is that Touch ID under the display was the halo goal and Face ID was the backup plan. Apple have obviously succeeded at embedding the Touch ID in the display given they were granted a patent on this early this year. The issue was display thickness according to reports. Face ID was an acquisition of PrimeSense (an Israeli company) and a miniaturization of the acquired technology. Their tech was first used by Microsoft with Kinect.

3) The use of SJ was a rhetorical device. Obviously no one knows what Steve would have thought or wanted. It is used to add emphasis. Don't be absurd.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yeah "whatever" is right. It's not my fault you got triggered and then entered into a fallacious quest to justify an irrational need to defend someone that was not under attack. Keep your emotions in check. Too many people read into things just to argue needlessly and then end up conjuring up arguments to argue against. Personally I think Tim Cook is doing a fantastic job. He is not Steve Jobs and isn't trying to be. Apple has prospered enormously under Cook. In response to your points.

1) There is no evidence of this. The demos of Face ID themselves show that the user experience is not as seamless as Touch ID. The fact that it is a two step process and requires facial positioning and focus bare this out.

2) Provide your source on this. My belief is that Touch ID under the display was the halo goal and Face ID was the backup plan. Apple have obviously succeeded at embedding the Touch ID in the display given they were granted a patent on this early this year. The issue was display thickness according to reports. Face ID was an acquisition of PrimeSense (an Israeli company) and a miniaturization of the acquired technology. Their tech was first used by Microsoft with Kinect.

3) The use of SJ was a rhetorical device. Obviously no one knows what Steve would have thought or wanted. It is used to add emphasis. Don't be absurd.

1) I said Apple thinks it’s better. They have stated this. No straw man allowed!

2) Gruber’s podcast with Federighi—TouchID was plan B. And Apple patents a lot of tech they never implement. Furthermore, an issued patent doesn’t mean the tech can be manufactured cheaply enough, or at scale.

3) You didn’t use Steve to provide emphasis, don’t be absurd. You stated SJ would have moved heaven and earth for TouchID under display, which I refuted. Sorry you got triggered.

 

[masotime]

2) even with hands-free, you have to take your eyes off the road to unlock with FaceID. With TouchID I do not have to take my eyes off the road to unlock or to open apps. I can use Siri once unlocked. With FaceID you have to look at the phone to unlock it in order to open most apps - Siri won’t open every app when locked. You don’t have to hold a phone to use TouchID just like you don’t have to hold a phone to swipe up if mounted in both situations.

smh so f’ing much

How in the world do you drive? Are you trying to fiddle with your phone while navigating heavy auto and pedestrian traffic during rush hour in the city?

I have an iPad mini mounted on the center dash of my car, and I regularly glance at it, but only when it is safe to do so. Having Face ID will not change that behavior, and I only touch the screen when traffic is light with high visibility.

It seems to me that you're somehow excusing very dangerous driving habits by saying it's "safe" because you use Touch ID. Do you somehow read the map after you unlock it with Touch ID by using haptic feedback prompts from some magical GPS / maps application?

You're going to look at the device either way, Touch ID or Face ID. Leave the phone powered via a auto charger when mounted so that the screen doesn't shut off. Don't fiddle with texting unless the car is stationary (pull over if you need to).

smh so f’ing much

 

[EsmeraldaDoll]

Last I read this is a place for people to comment, think you're in the wrong place.

Nope

 

[nylon]

1) I said Apple thinks it’s better. They have stated this. No straw man allowed!

2) Gruber’s podcast with Federighi—TouchID was plan B. And Apple patents a lot of tech they never implement. Furthermore, an issued patent doesn’t mean the tech can be manufactured cheaply enough, or at scale.

3) You didn’t use Steve to provide emphasis, don’t be absurd. You stated SJ would have moved heaven and earth for TouchID under display, which I refuted. Sorry you got triggered.

1.) Of course they say they think it's better. They are in the business of selling iPhones. LOL! I'm sure if they can bring embedded Touch ID to market they will say it's the latest and greatest. They're not going to say wait till next year till we embed Touch ID. LOL! The main issue is that from a usability perspective Touch ID is still a more seamless experience. But the trade off is the bezel with the current implementation.

2.) I listened to that podcast and I don't remember him mentioning embedded Touch ID. Regardless, I said it was the halo option and Face ID was backup not Plan A/B. Given that embedded Touch ID has only just been patented and Face ID tech has been around since since 2013 acquisition of PrimeSense it would make sense for Face ID to be the backup plan.

3.) Are you asserting that I didn't use SJ as a rhetorical device for emphasis. You're saying that I actually know what SJ would have done. For real. I'm flattered you think I have such supernatural powers. Ha ha ha! Try to be more original then using my own words in your sentences. Dude you lost the logic argument a while back. No need to beat a dead horse.

I know you're new here but it would be great if you matured a little before having your ass handed to you.

 

[anoobis]

How in the world do you drive? Are you trying to fiddle with your phone while navigating heavy auto and pedestrian traffic during rush hour in the city?

I have an iPad mini mounted on the center dash of my car, and I regularly glance at it, but only when it is safe to do so. Having Face ID will not change that behavior, and I only touch the screen when traffic is light with high visibility.

It seems to me that you're somehow excusing very dangerous driving habits by saying it's "safe" because you use Touch ID. Do you somehow read the map after you unlock it with Touch ID by using haptic feedback prompts from some magical GPS / maps application?

You're going to look at the device either way, Touch ID or Face ID. Leave the phone powered via a auto charger when mounted so that the screen doesn't shut off. Don't fiddle with texting unless the car is stationary (pull over if you need to).

smh so f’ing much

You don't have to look at the device with TouchID. I've written this about 5 times. Comprehension...

Is it better to take your eyes off the road once or never?

 

[PickUrPoison]

1.) Of course they say they think it's better. They are in the business of selling iPhones. LOL! I'm sure if they can bring embedded Touch ID to market they will say it's the latest and greatest. They're not going to say wait till next year till we embed Touch ID. LOL! The main issue is that from a usability perspective Touch ID is still a more seamless experience. But the trade off is the bezel with the current implementation.

2.) I listened to that podcast and I don't remember him mentioning embedded Touch ID. Regardless, I said it was the halo option and Face ID was backup not Plan A/B. Given that embedded Touch ID has only just been patented and Face ID tech has been around since since 2013 acquisition of PrimeSense it would make sense for Face ID to be the backup plan.

3.) Are you asserting that I didn't use SJ as a rhetorical device for emphasis. You're saying that I actually know what SJ would have done. For real. I'm flattered you think I have such supernatural powers. Ha ha ha! Try to be more original then using my own words in your sentences. Dude you lost the logic argument a while back. No need to beat a dead horse.

I know you're new here. But it would be great if you matured a little before having your ass handed to you.

1) Not sure why it’s so important for you to believe Apple tried and failed to bring TouchID under display. They say they stopped development of it a year ago, when they got FaceID working.

2) FaceID was not the backup option but feel free to continue claiming it was, with no evidence in support

3) Lots of forum posters claim to know what SJ would have done or wanted or thought, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last. I agree it is a ridiculous notion.

4) Your original post made 2 statements, both of which I’ve refuted.

5) You’ve won no logic argument, take second semester and try again.

 

[anoobis]

You can set FaceID so you don’t have to look at the screen to unlock it.

This is Phil from the keynote:

"With the iPhone X, your iPhone is locked until you look at it and it recognizes you. Nothing has ever been more simple, natural, and effortless," Apple exec Phil Schiller effused in the launch keynote. "This is the future of how we'll unlock our smartphones and protect our sensitive information."

I guess Phil was wrong?
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1) Not sure why it’s so important for you to believe Apple tried and failed to bring TouchID under display. They say they stopped development of it a year ago, when they got FaceID working.

2) FaceID was not the backup option but feel free to continue claiming it was, with no evidence in support

3) Lots of forum posters claim to know what SJ would have done or wanted or thought, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last. I agree it is a ridiculous notion.

4) Your original post made 2 statements, both of which I’ve refuted.

5) You’ve won no logic argument, take second semester and try again.

1) so if they started development and didn't reach their goal - that is 'tried and failed'

 

[zeesix]

Wet hands and gloves. There you have it, two of them.

can't use the phone then either... so why bother unlocking

 

[ErikGrim]

285 million people estimated are blind in the world neither a small market.

Why are we bringing up blind people again? Craig has specifically noted on two separate occasions (by podcast and email reply) that FaceID works for blind people as long as they turn of attention. Heck, it was mentioned on the page previous to your reply.

 

[PickUrPoison]

This is Phil from the keynote:

"With the iPhone X, your iPhone is locked until you look at it and it recognizes you. Nothing has ever been more simple, natural, and effortless," Apple exec Phil Schiller effused in the launch keynote. "This is the future of how we'll unlock our smartphones and protect our sensitive information."

I guess Phil was wrong?

1) so if they started development and didn't reach their goal - that is 'tried and failed'

Nope, Phil’s right. It does work the way he said. But reading comprehension is important. Like I said, there’s a setting to turn off the requirement that you look at it.

And regarding stopping=failing, again no. They stopped development because they did reach their goal: removing the home button (by getting FaceID working). We don’t know whether they would have failed or succeeded at TouchID under display, had they continued working on it.

Priorities change, why would Apple continue to expend R&D money/effort on a project that no longer had value to them?

 

[nylon]

1) Not sure why it’s so important for you to believe Apple tried and failed to bring TouchID under display. They say they stopped development of it a year ago, when they got FaceID working.

1) so if they started development and didn't reach their goal - that is 'tried and failed'

Exactly, just another example of standing up straw mans only to knock them down. And since you are asking for evidence where is your evidence that they stopped development a year ago. Why would they file a patent in 2017 for embedded Touch ID if they stopped development last year. I call shenanigans.

2) FaceID was not the backup option but feel free to continue claiming it was, with no evidence in support

I never claimed to have any evidence. I only inferred given the PrimeSense acquisition in 2013 and the Embedded Touch ID patent earlier this year. Secondly I said embedded Touch ID was the 'halo' option and that Face ID was the backup if the embedded Touch ID wasn't ready for market. It's obvious which technology was ready for market first. I love how you cherry pick your arguments out of context. Just another nail in the coffin.

Lots of forum posters claim to know what SJ would have done or wanted or thought, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last. I agree it is a ridiculous notion.

You think it's a ridiculous notion but you argued against it as if it was a literal statement to justify your fallacious argument. Here's you quote on that one.

You didn’t use Steve to provide emphasis, don’t be absurd. You stated SJ would have moved heaven and earth for TouchID under display, which I refuted.

Too funny! Keep digging that hole. I can't stop laughing.

Your original post made 2 statements, both of which I’ve refuted.

I'll give you that you are trying to come up with an actual argument but you are still hung up and impeded by trying to defend your original straw man position. It seems my attempt at teaching you basic logic didn't seem to penetrate. I can't dumb it down for you any more but I'll try.

1. I assert proposition X (my original statement)
2. You argue against a superficially similar proposition Y (your belief that I criticized Cook), falsely, as if an argument Y were an argument against X.

I've even gone as far as to give you what the logical response to my original statement was but you choose to ignore it. I can only lead the horse to water but I can't make him drink it.

You’ve won no logic argument, take second semester and try again.

I don't need to try. I just keep pointing out the glaring holes in your position and use your own words against you. It's quite a lot fun.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Exactly, just another example of standing up straw mans only to knock them down.



I never claimed to have any evidence. I only inferred given the PrimeSense acquisition in 2013 and the Embedded Touch ID patent earlier this year. Secondly I said embedded Touch ID was the 'halo' option and that Face ID was the backup if the embedded Touch ID wasn't ready for market. It's obvious which technology was ready for market first. I love how you cherry pick your arguments out of context. Just another nail in the coffin.



You think it's a ridiculous notion but you argued against it as if it was a literal statement to justify your fallacious argument. Here's you quote on that one. Too funny! Keep digging that hole. I can't stop laughing.



I'll give you that you are trying to come up with an actual argument but you are still hung up and impeded by trying to defend your original straw man position. It seems my attempt at teaching you basic logic didn't seem to penetrate. I can't dumb it down for you any more but I'll try.

1. I assert proposition X (my original statement)
2. You argue against a superficially similar proposition Y (your belief that I criticized Cook), falsely, as if an argument Y were an argument against X.

I've even gone as far as to give you what the logical response to my original statement was but you choose to ignore it. I can only lead the horse to water but I can't make him drink it.



I don't need to try. I just keep pointing out the glaring holes in your position and use your own words against you. It's quite a lot fun.

You win, you’re right about everything. Feel better?

 

[nylon]

You win, you’re right about everything. Feel better?

I'm not the one that keeps digging himself into a deeper hole. You're like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[JulianL]

...
2nd gen started with 6s. So 2 years to wait for you.

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. I doubt I'll be able to wait it out that long . To be honest I'm not even sure I'll make it to the 2018 launch before cracking and buying the current gen1 iPhone X but we'll see. At least for now my plan is to watch and wait and see how FaceID performs in real life.

 

[0lf]

This is known as a strawman argument. My comment stands on its own. It is only you and the other commenter who are projecting your own feelings with regards to what the comment is or means.

I never hide it was about how I feel, that is exactly what I wrote. I stand by my words and I don't need to hide behind the supposed opinion of someone who is not here to share it.

It's quite hilarious. It is a simple comment that Touch ID under the display is the kind of technology that SJ would have "moved heaven and earth" for. And I have qualified that later by indicating how inelegant Face ID is from a usability perspective as compared to Touch ID.

It is not what you have said. "SJ would have pushed touch ID" and "Touch ID is the kind of technology SJ would have pushed" have totally different meaning. I am not using strawman argument. You are trying to hide your own words.
BTW, transparent facial recognition also belongs to this kind of technology: unobtrusive authentification method, way ahead of what competition do at launch, and with some wow factor too.

LOL. If you are rude by definition you are being discourteous and if you are being discourteous intentionally it means you lack respect. You're only showcasing your own hypocrisy.

Discourteous and rude are clearly too strong here. My remarks were quite neutral, may be a bit harsh. It was not meant to please you. But in no way it was lacking respect. Obviously, this is a diversion from you.

Sorry but you are incorrect. There is no requirement to push the button in Gen 1 or Gen 2 either. You can set it up so that you simply need to place your finger on the Touch ID area and the phone will unlock to home screen. There is no requirement of physically triggering the button at any point. One step. It seems to me like you don't know that this feature exists.

When I say that this is not the default behavior and that I don't know if the same setting exist for face ID, it implies I know this setting exists for Touch ID...seems obvious to me, simple logic. Also, seems legit to me to compare default behavior of face ID with default behavior of Touch ID.

My issue with Face ID is as a comparative with Touch ID. You ignored my point about positioning completely. But It is obvious that you would ignore that because it highlights a usability flaw.

I ignored it because for now it is irrelevant. There is no guaranty you will have to raise the device to head level. If it work great from difficult angles it will be fine.

Face ID cannot be a one step process because there is a chance of accidentally triggering it when not intended (for example you just want to check notifications). With Touch ID you have to deliberately position your finger indicating intention.

I already explain how it could feel like a one step process. The phone will behave like if it is always unlocked. A touch to show the lock screen - notification center. A slide to show the home screen. In some situation the iPhone X will be not as good as previous ones : phone on a table, it will need a tap and a slide to access home. But it comes from the absence of home button, not touch ID, as the situation remain the same if locking is disabled. In some situations it will be better : like I said, when you want to access a notification from the lock screen and the lock prevent you from interacting with the notification.

I'm not trying to prove anything. This is another strawman argument of yours and you seem to be full of arguments that begin with logical fallacies. Apple not revealing that they have not perfected a technology is their right. It is not lying and has nothing to do with ethics. They have every right to push their own agenda.

They explicitly said they stop trying. It is not like if they refused to talk about it. And no straw man argument either.

Sorry but you sound like you are very immature.

Oh, really...
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Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. I doubt I'll be able to wait it out that long . To be honest I'm not even sure I'll make it to the 2018 launch before cracking and buying the current gen1 iPhone X but we'll see. At least for now my plan is to watch and wait and see how FaceID performs in real life.

Yep, the gen2 is not always on year+1. For face ID gen2 there is currently no information, so it is impossible to tell when it will arrive. May be future steps in neural engine developments will make face ID improvements more progressive ?
Me too, I need to see by myself how it perform because it is an important part of user experience.

 

[masotime]

You don't have to look at the device with TouchID. I've written this about 5 times. Comprehension...

Is it better to take your eyes off the road once or never?

So you're saying that, while driving, by using your Touch ID enabled iPhone, you regularly use it without taking your eyes off the road?

 

[nylon]

I never hide it was about how I feel, that is exactly what I wrote. I stand by my words and I don't need to hide behind the supposed opinion of someone who is not here to share it.

It is not what you have said. "SJ would have pushed touch ID" and "Touch ID is the kind of technology SJ would have pushed" have totally different meaning. I am not using strawman argument. You are trying to hide your own words.
BTW, transparent facial recognition also belongs to this kind of technology: unobtrusive authentification method, way ahead of what competition do at launch, and with some wow factor too.

Discourteous and rude are clearly too strong here. My remarks were quite neutral, may be a bit harsh. It was not meant to please you. But in no way it was lacking respect. Obviously, this is a diversion from you.

When I say that this is not the default behavior and that I don't know if the same setting exist for face ID, it implies I know this setting exists for Touch ID...seems obvious to me, simple logic. Also, seems legit to me to compare default behavior of face ID with default behavior of Touch ID.

I ignored it because for now it is irrelevant. There is no guaranty you will have to raise the device to head level. If it work great from difficult angles it will be fine.

I already explain how it could feel like a one step process. The phone will behave like if it is always unlocked. A touch to show the lock screen - notification center. A slide to show the home screen. In some situation the iPhone X will be not as good as previous ones : phone on a table, it will need a tap and a slide to access home. But it comes from the absence of home button, not touch ID, as the situation remain the same if locking is disabled. In some situations it will be better : like I said, when you want to access a notification from the lock screen and the lock prevent you from interacting with the notification.

They explicitly said they stop trying. It is not like if they refused to talk about it. And no straw man argument either.

0lf, I hate to point this out to you but your grasp of the English language and its nuances is very weak. This is something I really didn't want to have to say as it is generally not considered polite and since it is obviously not your first language. This is not your fault but it is frustrating because I've already had this discussion once with PickUrPoison I don't want to keep on rehashing the same points given we can't have a discussion where we keep talking past each other. I bid you good day.