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Kuo: iPhone 12 May Not Come With EarPods in the Box, Apple to Introduce AirPods Promotion in Second Half of 2020

1144557 said:
And anticipating "buh Apple makes so much dey soooooo gweedy!" look back at iphone profit margins over the years; they are lower now than the iphone 6 series and before, yet no one complained then. https://wccftech.com/apple-iphone-profits-declining/

iPhone-profit-margins.jpg
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Not that I disagree with your point, but charts like that aren't as factual as they pretend to be.

  • "TechInsights" doesn't actually know Apple's bill of materials. At all. They don't know the entirety of the components (even iFixit teardowns take a lot of guesses of what the markings on a particular chip might be), and they sure as hell don't know what prices Apple pays. It's just semi-educated guesses.
  • This chart suggests that someone (paid $0/hr, apparently) slaps those components together and, boom, phone produced. It ignores manufacturing, design, engineering, support, retail presence, etc. It ignores software entirely, which, hey, have you heard (the author here apparently hasn't)? Apple makes their own OS! It's true! And those software engineers even get paid as well.
So to call this a "profit margin" is ********.

However, as a relative measure, the chart might still does work as a rough approximation. It's just labeled poorly.
 
chucker23n1 said:
Not that I disagree with your point, but charts like that aren't as factual as they pretend to be.

  • "TechInsights" doesn't actually know Apple's bill of materials. At all. They don't know the entirety of the components (even iFixit teardowns take a lot of guesses of what the markings on a particular chip might be), and they sure as hell don't know what prices Apple pays. It's just semi-educated guesses.
  • This chart suggests that someone (paid $0/hr, apparently) slaps those components together and, boom, phone produced. It ignores manufacturing, design, engineering, support, retail presence, etc. It ignores software entirely, which, hey, have you heard (the author here apparently hasn't)? Apple makes their own OS! It's true! And those software engineers even get paid as well.
So to call this a "profit margin" is ********.

However, as a relative measure, the chart might still does work as a rough approximation. It's just labeled poorly.
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The best one can do is guesstimates, Apple will never ever disclose this info.

And to your second point I fully get that and have reached it before, but what does assembly, design, engineering, support, retail matter? If one device is 10% more profit margin, the underlying operating costs dont change by phone model; the same operating cost is built into each device. So the difference between the margins is accurate then.

Ie. the difference between a phone costing $200 to build tacking on $50 for operating company costs and a phone that cost $250 tacking on $50 for operating company costs is the same no matter if that is $50 or $100 or any number. The proportion doesnt change.

One can in fact argue the company overall operating/design/manufacturing costs during say the 3GS were probably lower overall than in 2018 and the XS Max- less staff, products, R&D, stores, etc a decade ago.

So that 15% difference it appears between those models could actually be more in fact- they made far more profit on the 3GS than the XS Max per device. The difference between them is what matters not if its one is 80% or 40%. In reality as the only fluctuating major cost (operating costs in each device surely fluctuate a little probably a smaller number) is the BOM.
 
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1144557 said:
The best one can do is guesstimates, Apple will never ever disclose this info.
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1144557 said:
And to your second point I fully get that and have reached it before, but what does assembly, design, engineering, support, retail matter? If one device is 10% more profit margin, the underlying operating costs dont change by phone model; the same operating cost is built into each device. So the difference between the margins is accurate then.
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Right, as I said: it's good enough as an approximate relative measure.

But the chart calls it a "profit margin", and it's just not.
 
chucker23n1 said:
Right, as I said: it's good enough as an approximate relative measure.

But the chart calls it a "profit margin", and it's just not.
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Of course not. But this Apple is so greedy lately is just such nonsense. Little hearts bursting over an under $1 set of earbuds so that phone prices dont go up putting more expensive parts in.

You can't have a $400 BOM device and sell it for $750 for a company like Apple with all of those factors (retail, employees, R&D, their own OS etc); the phone back then cost $750 because the BOM was half what it is now. More packed in costs more, and either costs are cut or prices go up.

People want it both ways though somehow and that Apple should just eat it because apparently "they make so much money" If they are greedy now people should look back and see how much more relative to now they were making per unit then. No one batted an eye back then.

Facts dont make you a fanboy or defender though as some people toss around- they are just facts.
 
1144557 said:
Of course not. But this Apple is so greedy lately is just such nonsense.
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Wellllll I think it comes and goes. Between 2016 and ~18, the MacBook line-up was rather pricey. They've improved on that.

And as far as the iPhone is concerned, I think a case can be made that they got too greedy with the XS. They thought that was going to be the main seller, and instead the XR was. With the next generation, they flipped that around, made the 11 (the XR's successor) the new default, and even made it a little cheaper.
 
Drogba11 said:
Makes sense to you maybe but not everyone. I for one like having the extra pairs of wired headphones because they don’t need to be charged and I can bring them on trips and don’t worry about them getting broken like my AirPods. Jesus, listening to some of you people on here...if I am paying $1200 a year for a phone you better believe I want my included headphones. The never ending circle jerk of Apple defenders on here never ceases to amaze me.
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Funny, I normally stay away from the comments due to the Apple detractors ;)

Surely Apple isn’t under obligation to include anything aside from the phone in the box. Could otherwise argue that every $1200 phone should come with a free case also even though some people (like myself) may never use it.

Quoting Steve Jobs: “If we succeed they’ll buy ‘em. And if we don’t, they won’t. And it’ll all work itself out.”
 
1. I don’t really care cuz I’ve never used Apple’s earbuds.
2. Definitely gonna complain anyway (for the sport of it.)
 
The problem is people's way of thinking of the headphones and charger are free with the phone. Nothing in the box or even the box itself is free but rather included in the total price. People just don't realize this because there is no option to buy the phone without the extra stuff. I'd rather not pay for stuff I don't need
 
russell_314 said:
The problem is people's way of thinking of the headphones and charger are free with the phone. Nothing in the box or even the box itself is free but rather included in the total price. People just don't realize this because there is no option to buy the phone without the extra stuff. I'd rather not pay for stuff I don't need
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you're right, but if that was the logic - the price of the iphone should go down, right?
 
NickName99 said:
I would love it if they just had the phone in the box. Maybe a USB-C to Lightning cable. It would be an enormous amount of paper, plastic and wiring saved, not to mention fuel saved from being able to fit twice the phones in the same amount of shipping space.

They could figure something out with electronic vouchers in case folks needed a USB-C charger and/or headphones.
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Same. I would be good with just the cable. Don't really use headphones, and have enough chargers, both wall and power banks.
 
I think what they’re going to do is give you the option to include AirPods in the iPhone 12 box for a significant discount
 
I want the option to buy the new iPhone without EarPods and charging cable. Give me a price cut or a gift card instead so I can buy stuff I really need.
 
I heard from a reliable source, that next year’s Iphone 13 will not come with an iPhone. I believe it!
 
I’ll make a trade, bring back the 3.5mm jack and I won’t care if Apple stops including earpods.

this would help with switchers. With earpods included Someone switching from another platform (android) can atleast be guaranteed that they have 1 pair of headphones/mic. but with 3.5mm they can likely atleast bring their own over.

this would provide for even less e-waist :) and reduce the amount of batteries going in landfill
 
arkmannj said:
I’ll make a trade, bring back the 3.5mm jack and I won’t care if Apple stops including earpods.

this would help with switchers. With earpods included Someone switching from another platform (android) can atleast be guaranteed that they have 1 pair of headphones/mic. but with 3.5mm they can likely atleast bring their own over.

this would provide for even less e-waist :) and reduce the amount of batteries going in landfill
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"this would help with switchers. With earpods included Someone switching from another platform (android) can atleast be guaranteed that they have 1 pair of headphones/mic. but with 3.5mm they can likely atleast bring their own over."

Not if you are switching from a Galaxy Note 10.
 
alexandr said:
sure, but i don't think they deliberately use cheaper components in order to include headphones. especially in high end models.
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No I don't think there's a guy at Apple who says "Oh man we have to include this $20 headphones so we'll have to go with the Intel modem instead of the Qualcomm modem. What I do think is there's a guy at Apple who says well our bill of materials costs ___ and we need to keep it under ___. With them not adding extra junk that most people don't use this would mean they would have more money to spend on the actual phone. I'd rather them spend it on the phone instead of giving me another set of wired headphones that I will never use.
 
alexandr said:
sure, but i don't think they deliberately use cheaper components in order to include headphones. especially in high end models.
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russell_314 said:
No I don't think there's a guy at Apple who says "Oh man we have to include this $20 headphones so we'll have to go with the Intel modem instead of the Qualcomm modem. What I do think is there's a guy at Apple who says well our bill of materials costs ___ and we need to keep it under ___. With them not adding extra junk that most people don't use this would mean they would have more money to spend on the actual phone. I'd rather them spend it on the phone instead of giving me another set of wired headphones that I will never use.
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This. Except they arent $20. If the earpods cost Apple a few dollars a pair at their bulk cost Id be shocked.

But you want the same phone as last year, a bigger (5.8 to 6.1 and 6.5 to 6.7) OLED with 120hz Pro Motion, 5G (have to pay the piper Qualcomm to get that for now), and the costly upgrade components this year?

The money has to come from somewhere or raise price. There is no choice C to get more stuff and same price with no compromises. Bigger Promotion display and 5G > earpods any day all day.
 
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russell_314 said:
No I don't think there's a guy at Apple who says "Oh man we have to include this $20 headphones so we'll have to go with the Intel modem instead of the Qualcomm modem. What I do think is there's a guy at Apple who says well our bill of materials costs ___ and we need to keep it under ___. With them not adding extra junk that most people don't use this would mean they would have more money to spend on the actual phone. I'd rather them spend it on the phone instead of giving me another set of wired headphones that I will never use.
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i understand, but i highly doubt the are actually related. imho of course.
 
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