Law Firms Consider 'Error 53' Lawsuits Against Apple as Some Stores Authorized for Repairs

[coffeemadmanUK]

So, according to this logic, if you take your new Lexus to a non-dealership repair shop and they put non-factory aftermarket replacement parts on your car, Lexus is liable when something goes wrong?

You're not getting this.

Lexus is NOT liable when something goes wrong, absolutely correct there.

However. The car should not simply STOP working as soon as you use a non-Lexus part - btw I cannot think of another product that would STOP working with a third party part.

I repeat: this is NOT about blaming Apple if it goes wrong. That is not Apple's fault. It is about the fact the iPhone just STOPS working regardless.

 

[I7guy]

Please elaborate or state it a bit clearer. You replace the ECU, which goes fine, then you replace some other component, and then some third component that is critical to the cars functionality dies because of the ECU replacement? Is that the scenario? If so... that is not analogous because in the present situation with Apple (1) there is only one component being replaced, and (2) nothing actually physically dies or is broken, rather Apple's software intentionally disables the entire phone when it detects the change.

Yes apples software detects a critical hardware failure and issues a panic.

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

Hey Ford!! I took the ignition out of my Explorer and replaced it with one from Bob's Cheap Ignitions down the street, and now my car won't start! You bastards did this on purpose! I'm lawyering up!

Again. This is not what this is about.

This is where Bob replaces your ignition and actually the ignition is fine, it's just not a Ford one. The ignition works, OK? It works. Bob has charged you less and it works.

Ford stop your car working. It's not broken - the ignition works, remember? They just block your car regardless because it's not one of their parts.

That's the difference. NOBODY is complaining if they mess up their iPhone - that's their fault. But the iPhone should not completely become unusable JUST because it's a non-Apple part.

 

[BaldiMac]

You're not getting this.

Lexus is NOT liable when something goes wrong, absolutely correct there.

However. The car should not simply STOP working as soon as you use a non-Lexus part - btw I cannot think of another product that would STOP working with a third party part.

I repeat: this is NOT about blaming Apple if it goes wrong. That is not Apple's fault. It is about the fact the iPhone just STOPS working regardless.

As pointed out a couple times, would you be upset if a car with an improperly paired key/key fob wouldn't start?

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

As pointed out a couple times, would you be upset if a car with an improperly paired key/key fob wouldn't start?

I would be very annoyed if it was not possible to fix a car if the key broke. I'm not suggesting Apple allow an iPhone to use Touch ID without the proper security so just disable that. Don't stop the whole phone from working.

It's a terrible analogy though as it's not what we're talking about. Your scenario on the iPhone would be letting a different fingerprint unlock my iPhone, clearly that's not what we want.
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Since we are using car analogies (not you but the thread is rife With them), I recently bought a spare key for our mini. Long story short it HAD to be ordered through mini because the programming was done in Germany directly linked to the VIN. I spent hours on forums and even asking car locksmiths to no avail. Cost me $400, $180 of which was "programming fees" which was done in less than half an hour.

I'm on your side here. I think this is rather... Questionable, as I did with the key. But when you have no other choice... Fortunately this was made clear to me from the get go (and I confirmed the dealer's statements since sometimes people will misguide you for a buck). I can only imagine how id feel having paid half that, had the key work for a while, and then one day be rendered a paperweight.
[doublepost=1454993207][/doublepost]
Apple reserves the right to refuse any repair work on a device that has already seen third party repairs. And I know this has happened to folks before, having read about their situation. Unsure if this will change in any way moving for ward.

I've seen this many times. The Apple Store staff just outright refuse to go further on a product once they see it's had a non-Apple part added.

I'd be surprised if they even looked at any iPhone that's bricked up.
[doublepost=1455034664][/doublepost]

That's the issue; this isn't about security. If it was, the "error 53" would happen the time time you rebooted your device post repair / post damage / post wearing out / post part failure for any device that uses TouchID.

That isn't happening. This is more like a system status check on update.
[doublepost=1455030128][/doublepost]

But that doesn't lock you out of your car.
Really though, that whole car part analogy doesn't work well. This isn't about warranty.

Thank God someone has pointed out that nobody is talking about warranty - it's nothing about the warranty.

 

[H2SO4]

In the UK in order for a car under warranty to maintain the warranty the car can be serviced at any repair centre or garage but that place must use genuine parts. I recently had a service on a year old Vauxhall Astra my wife owns done by my uncle at his garage ahead of a "warranty inspection" at the Vauxhall dealer. After the work has been done i had to take the car along with the invoice of the genuine parts he bought from them before they approved the warranty for another year. The law changed a few years ago meaning that cars dont have to be serviced etc at main dealers to keep the warranty valid just that genuine parts are used. If i'd taken the car back for the check having used random parts from some cheap chinese ebay store i suspect they would have told me where to stick my warranty!!

No they don’t. I’m pretty sure they just have to use parts of a sufficient quality and respect the manufactures service schedule.
Straight away, if I have an engine problem the OEM cannot claim it’s because I didn’t use the oil that they use. All they ned to stipulate is that the non branded/non OEM meets a set of criteria. For example I can use Halfords oil that meets VW spec 502 00/505 00 in my Golf, (which I don’t actually drive BTW), that is just as good.

 

[997941]

The way I see it, both sides of the coin have their definitive points and both sides are right. So where does that leave the customer who has every right to use 3rd party parts with out fearing the sudden bricking of their phone?

I believe apple could have handled this much better without turning phones into bricks. And perhaps it truly was an over site with apple that will be fixed in a future update? You can't force people to only use apple approved parts. So there needs to be a way to secure the 3rd party part. Security is up most on my mind as well, and many of the security risks pointed out here are real concerns. Until apple finds a way to resolve this, I feel for anyone who could not afford apples repair prices and looked for alternative means and are now faced with a bricked phone.

 

[igorsky]

This is NOT one of the "phone's most vital" components. It's a stupid 9.99$ sensor that probably costs 2.99$ to mass produce and 15 minutes to swap out.

Yep, it's a stupid $9.99 sensor that contains fingerprint data which in turn controls access to your entire phone, including password apps and Apple Pay. Absolutely no way that anyone would have a reason to want to hack that stupid sensor.

Maybe it's me and I don't understand the technicalities of the iPhone. But the notion that people think it's ok to allow anyone to mess with Touch ID is absurd, frankly.

 

[BaldiMac]

I would be very annoyed if it was not possible to fix a car if the key broke.

It is possible to fix it. Not sure where you got that idea.

I'm not suggesting Apple allow an iPhone to use Touch ID without the proper security so just disable that. Don't stop the whole phone from working.

That's a lovely suggestion, but what you are really asking is that Apple support improperly repaired devices by designing a fall back system to maintain security without being able to verify that the hardware works correctly.

That would certainly be nice, but it doesn't sound fair or practical.

It's a terrible analogy though as it's not what we're talking about. Your scenario on the iPhone would be letting a different fingerprint unlock my iPhone, clearly that's not what we want.

That's exactly what we are talking about. Once the chain of trust is broken, the key cannot be verified.

 

[H2SO4]

For all we know, there might be good technical reasons for it. I can't see the money generated by repairs being enough of an incentive for Apple to pull a stunt like this.

If they had one they would have said as much by now. However technical the reason I’m sure they can outline what is going on without releasing their trade secrets in a white paper.
They want to squeeze third parties, (as well). I promise you.

 

[PaulRustad007]

This is ludicrous... There are so many security concerns due to this. TouchID basically has direct access to your bank cards and such.

Only if you allow it to be.

 

[seancca]

I would like to point out, having worked for an Apple Store, that a repair place can be an Authorized Apple Repair Center and still use incorrect parts on phones. I would say like 4-5 years ago they used to allow those places to do some work on phones but then pulled it because those places were doing repair work out of the scope allowed. They didn't pull the status of the centers just said you are no longer authorized for iPhone repair. So yes a electronics repair center can be Apple Authorized but really all that means is they are authorized to repair Apple Computers not iOS devices.

 

[BaldiMac]

If they had one they would have said as much by now. However technical the reason I’m sure they can outline what is going on without releasing their trade secrets in a white paper.
They want to squeeze third parties, (as well). I promise you.

Ummm... they did say as much by now. Read the OP.

On a different note. How many third-party home button repairs do people think happen every year? I can't imagine this being a revenue issue. I'm thinking this market would be less that a $1 million a year. Completely inconsequential to Apple.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Let me ask you this: Should I have my barber fix my car's transmission?




That would be NO! And if I did, I wouldn't expect Honda to fix it when it broke or didn't work...why...because my barber isn't qualified nor is he an authorized mechanic for Honda. The same thing applies here. People take their iPhones to un-authorized retailers to get it fixed and the complain when Apple disables the device?

So, the lesson of the day...take your **** to the right people if you want it to work.

I cannot believe how silly some of the analogies in this thread are. Just wow

 

[DevNull0]

Oh, we're using an from 1971? I'm sure everyone involved in that original law was totally thinking about our current crop of 2016 smartphones in 1971. That was only, oh, 45 years ago.

What is this mental disorder kiddies today seem to have where anything a little dated is obsolete? What makes you think the age of the law has anything to do with its relevance?

Don't screw your customer. Don't destroy their product because they do something with it you don't like. There's nothing new or trendy about that.

And for the record, I wasn't even born in 1971, but all these little kiddies these days saying it's old, it's junk just make them sound like the stupid children they are. Same goes for the ones saying they should replace the 3.5mm audio pin just because it dates to the 70's.

The Magna Carta is 801 years old from before the US even existed. It's really time to throw away those horrible antiquated legal concepts. Public jury trials are so 800 years ago, we should modernize and let government agents try people in secret just because that law is so old.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Yes apples software detects a critical hardware failure and issues a panic.

No hardware failure. Remember, these phones were working 100% fine prior to installing iOS9. The hardware worked and had no failure. Apple detected a change, and for no other reason than that change, disables all functionality without warning.

I said it above, I have actually done this test: Take two identical fully-functional iPhones. Swap their screens and fingerprint sensors. They will both throw this error under iOS9 and the entire iphones will be disabled. Even though both touchid sensors are authentic, oem, built by Apple, untampered and unmodified, and 100% functional.

 

[ZipZap]

I may be incorrect, but I believe that in the terms of use Apple states using unauthorized 3rd party repair shops may void your warranty and lead to unexpected results, even those rendering the device unusable.

Solution? DON'T utilize unauthorized 3rd parties!

So void the warranty but dont willfully brick the phone.

 

[I7guy]

No hardware failure. Remember, these phones were working 100% fine prior to installing iOS9. The hardware worked and had no failure. Apple detected a change, and for no other reason than that change, disables all functionality without warning.

I said it above, I have actually done this test: Take two identical fully-functional iPhones. Swap their screens and fingerprint sensors. They will both throw this error under iOS9 and the entire iphones will be disabled. Even though both touchid sensors are authentic, oem, built by Apple, untampered and unmodified, and 100% functional.

According to iOS 9 it's a hardware failure because iOS 9 is expecting something from the hardware that iOS 8 didn't.

 

[ZipZap]

You're not getting this.

Lexus is NOT liable when something goes wrong, absolutely correct there.

However. The car should not simply STOP working as soon as you use a non-Lexus part - btw I cannot think of another product that would STOP working with a third party part.

I repeat: this is NOT about blaming Apple if it goes wrong. That is not Apple's fault. It is about the fact the iPhone just STOPS working regardless.

Perfect explanation. 100% on the money. Dont understand why so many can't or won't see it for what it is.

 

[BaldiMac]

No hardware failure. Remember, these phones were working 100% fine prior to installing iOS9. The hardware worked and had no failure. Apple detected a change, and for no other reason than that change, disables all functionality without warning.

I said it above, I have actually done this test: Take two identical fully-functional iPhones. Swap their screens and fingerprint sensors. They will both throw this error under iOS9 and the entire iphones will be disabled. Even though both touchid sensors are authentic, oem, built by Apple, untampered and unmodified, and 100% functional.

No, they didn't disable the phone for a change. The disabled the phone for a mismatched pairing of secure elements. It's certainly possible to switch in new parts as long as they are properly paired.

 

[ZipZap]

As pointed out a couple times, would you be upset if a car with an improperly paired key/key fob wouldn't start?

No but I would go back to the repair shop and fix their work. In this case, Apple has prevented all service except theirs and said nothing about this restriction.

 

[BaldiMac]

No but I would go back to the repair shop and fix their work. In this case, Apple has prevented all service except theirs and said nothing about this restriction.

It isn't Apple's responsibility to support improper third-party repairs. It would be nice though. And they are actually being nice according to the OP.

 

[Keirasplace]

No hardware failure. Remember, these phones were working 100% fine prior to installing iOS9. The hardware worked and had no failure. Apple detected a change, and for no other reason than that change, disables all functionality without warning.

I said it above, I have actually done this test: Take two identical fully-functional iPhones. Swap their screens and fingerprint sensors. They will both throw this error under iOS9 and the entire iphones will be disabled. Even though both touchid sensors are authentic, oem, built by Apple, untampered and unmodified, and 100% functional.

They weren't "working fine", they were on the verge being found out to have been tampered with : aka "not fine".
Also, this message occured in 8.3 so your argument is again bogus.

 

[oneMadRssn]

No, they didn't disable the phone for a change. The disabled the phone for a mismatched pairing of secure elements. It's certainly possible to switch in new parts as long as they are properly paired.

Please point me to a source that says it is possible to re-pair a logic board and a touchid sensor. From all my research, and let me assure you i've done more than a cursory search, this is not possible. The pairing is either hard-coded into the logic board, or they permanently disable this chip to be reprogrammed after initial pairing. Either way, all evidence suggests that when Apple is confronted with the issue of a broken touch-id sensor, they replace either the entire phone or replace the logicboard and touch-id sensor together. I have seen zero evidence that Apple has ever replaced just the touchid sensor on an iPhone.
[doublepost=1455036342][/doublepost]

According to iOS 9 it's a hardware failure because iOS 9 is expecting something from the hardware that iOS 8 didn't.

They can call it strawberry surprise error for all I care - let's call a spade a spade. There is no hardware failure if the hardware works. It is a software disable.

 

[ZipZap]

Yep, it's a stupid $9.99 sensor that contains fingerprint data which in turn controls access to your entire phone, including password apps and Apple Pay. Absolutely no way that anyone would have a reason to want to hack that stupid sensor.

Maybe it's me and I don't understand the technicalities of the iPhone. But the notion that people think it's ok to allow anyone to mess with Touch ID is absurd, frankly.

Does not matter. As the consumer its up to me if I am worried about that. If I turn off fingerprints, then the button should be replaceable 100% of the time with no impacts to the phone.

What are all of you people trying to protect me and others from exactly. I choose what I want to do with my device. Not Apple.

If I lose my phone and have not set up "Find My iPhone", thats on me. Its my choice.

There is some belief here that Apple's actions are to protect me from myself. That's not necessary, and why the lawyers will have a field day with this one.

Apple has lost already. No arguments to the contrary apply.