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I'm waiting for the class action lawsuit against Apple for AppleCare repairing Macs, and not flashing a serial # on the logic board, thus making Facetime inoperable along with other MacOS features. Apple Stores refuse to FIX this problem because many of the machines, like 2009/10 Macs are considered obsolete. Apple stores have repair disks to fix this issue, but they won't touch those affected machines. Trying to do it myself has proved unsuccessful, so I've never been able to use Facetime on my Mac Pro. :(

Suggestions?

This frankly seems to be a pretty big edge case, and even harder to have happen now. Macs are considered vintage after five years from discountination, and obselete after 7. Apple doesn't do any hardware work on machines past that point, but no one I know wouldn't at least be willing to run diagnostics on that machine for you, and if you have an unserialized board, it makes you serialize it before diagnostics can be run. If for some reason all the physical serial markings were removed giving it a correct serial number would be impossible, and the process is written to firmware and is not undoable/redoable in the store. So if let's say the store lost power during the write to firmware and now you've gone from a machine that worked but didn't have a serial number to a paperweight that couldn't boot, I know which I would choose. And Apple does not have a way of ordering that part with any guarantees of continued function/reliability at this point. All those boards out there would be heavily refurbished by this point. However most apple techs aren't going to even consider that element of it. I'd be willing to bet if you went to the Genius Bar and asked for diags, they'd hook up an Ethernet cable, get a message saying that your board wasn't serialized, and as long as they could find one, they'd serialize that board, but know full well there's nothing that tech can do about it if that firmware alteration corrupts the MLB, and Apple can't fix that if they can't get a replacement MLB.

Another poster asked about recent cases of Apple behaving in such a manner. Check out the cell data issue with iPad 2's after 9.3. The issue was sometimes fixed by a restore, but mostly the only workaround was to toggle cell data off, take the SIM out and reinsert it, and it would work for a while for some people. It was acknowledged by Apple as a software issue, and the support article stated it would be fixed in a following software update. Nothing through 9.3.5 helped, and the last time I looked, sometime before December, the support article still said that a software patch was coming. Cause I'm sure they've had a team working on a 9.3.6 patch for a year now, for a device that otherwise isn't supported. Not super great.

As for Apple creating a bug to do this, given the dates (the certificate expired 7 days after iOS 7 came out I believe it said), it sounds like they just didn't renew the certificate and push it out, and the iOS 7 update didn't need it since it was relying on the newer peer to peer connections only. Since it was a certificate for Akamai, I would think their signing authority would have signed that file, so Apple altering the certificate should have made it fail immediately, it would no longer match the real certificate. Kind of the point of certificates. Not saying that doesn't make it a shady business move. Just that "created a bug" seems misleading in my opinion.
 
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I do care if Apple forces me to update my device and the new software makes my device far worse off, which is precisely what iOS 7.0 did.

For the entire half of a year before 7.1 came out, iOS 7.0 was abysmally slow and buggy. 7.1 improved things but nowhere near to where 6 was.

I don't expect Apple to support the older OS much, but having completely irreversible updates can really burn people.

I did manage to get iOS 6 back on my 4S and the thing runs every bit as well as my iPhone 6 on iOS 9/10, and is even faster at navigating the OS.

I maintain that the iPhone 5 on iOS 6 is the fastest iPhone experience to date.
I 100% agree.

iPhone 5 with iOS 6 is the gold standard.

What I would do to get the old UI, but refined to accommodate today's needs and features...

Glassed Silver:mac
 
Hmmm errr ermmmm hhmmmm.. not sure what to make of this one?
Not sure if they would steep that low or not. Guess we'll find out soon.

It will be an interesting case to watch, not like Apple doesn't try to force you to update after all with all those messages.
 
I do care if Apple forces me to update my device and the new software makes my device far worse off, which is precisely what iOS 7.0 did.

For the entire half of a year before 7.1 came out, iOS 7.0 was abysmally slow and buggy. 7.1 improved things but nowhere near to where 6 was.

I don't expect Apple to support the older OS much, but having completely irreversible updates can really burn people.

I did manage to get iOS 6 back on my 4S and the thing runs every bit as well as my iPhone 6 on iOS 9/10, and is even faster at navigating the OS.

I maintain that the iPhone 5 on iOS 6 is the fastest iPhone experience to date.

Sadly I have to agree. And not just with respect to iOS and devices. Over the past 10 years Apple has worked hard to demolish a reputation for traditionally high standards. Those standards began to slip the moment they realized iOS and OS X needed to converge.

The boxed version Apple sold for Mac OS X Snow Leopard stated "The world's most advanced operating system. Finely tuned." Unsure Apple is making the same bold claims today.
 
So if they had p2p technology for iOS 7 that would completely remove the need for Akamai.. Why on earth didn't they do an iOS 6 patch/update to get the improved FaceTime to iOS 6 users instead of cripple it? It would be the legal, user-friendly way to go. If this is true, I'd say they deserve that lawsuit.
 
[doublepost=1486097258][/doublepost]What about the 4th generation iPod touch that couldn't update to iOS 7? FaceTime just stopped working on them?
They issued iOS 6.1.5 and iOS 6.1.6.
[doublepost=1486108079][/doublepost]
Completely agree, I'm on iOS 9 with my iPad Pro, and the daily pop up is pathetic , and poor user experience

You can disable them with this workaround. You only need to go through Step 1 and Step 3 to disable the alerts, auto downloading under Wi-Fi, etc. Step 2 is solely for removing the "1" badge on Settings app.
 
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I guess the plaintiff was encouraged by the highly successful class action suits brought after Apple replaced Google Maps with Apple Maps. ;)

"Unspecified damages" = "I can't figure out how I was harmed, so let's see if we can fool a judge/jury into being generous."

Now, what would have happened if Apple had said, "Sorry, we're discontinuing FaceTime?" or "We're replacing FaceTime with new and improved FaceTime 2!" Free services come and go all the time. No company I know of is fool enough to contractually promise that a free service will continue indefinitely. Just the contrary, the end-user agreements are explicit about all the things they will not promise. They're also quite careful to exclude incidental damages (such as damages that may arise out of using or discontinuing the use of the service).

A reasonable person familiar with Apple's (and general industry) practices would know that no software version is forever. It's not a matter of whether a version of software will be sunset, but when. Even when one paid cash for it, which users of iOS did not do.

No, this is simply a case of hoping that a judge or jury will become so outraged by Apple's actions that they'll give money to the wrong people (if anyone was harmed, it would seem to be Akamai).
 
"When Apple's peer-to-peer FaceTime technology was found to infringe on VirnetX's patents in 2012"
How do you make peer-to-peer video chat infringe on a patent?! That stuff's been around since the 90s. It's basic. Sounds like a patent trolling case.
[doublepost=1486108968][/doublepost]
Wouldn't it have been simpler to just renew the certificate? Or do they not work the way https certificates do?
From what I understand, Apple screwed it up, either on purpose or through some stupidity. The certificate must've been signed by some authority, either Apple or someone else, and they could have renewed it. Same reason you don't need OS updates to visit https://google.com.
[doublepost=1486109144][/doublepost]
Personally not a facetime user, but can understand why she might be upset.
If you are primarily just using an iPhone for music, browser and communication, iOS 6 performance is way better than iOS 7-10. imo. I have an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 and it sails so smoothly on iOS 6 and the music app is not butchered as it is now.
Yeah, my iPhone 6 was never fast, even running the OS it came with. And whatever stupid update brought the custom keyboards somehow made the default keyboard unable to keep up with my typing. I'd still be using iPhone 5 + iOS 6 if I didn't need to do development.
 
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My concern is that Apple created a BUG. CREATED a BUG.

Bugs are bad. No CONSUMER wants to deal with bugs. We want our stuff to "just work". What did Apple do?

They made our stuff not work.

Bad Apple!

Why did they create a bug when most vendors try to stomp them out?

To keep more money to themselves

... and not have to keep paying Akamai so that FaceTime would keep working for people on older devices running older iOS 6 while Apple found a way to move on from that technology in iOS 7.

There could have been a more upfront honest way of going about this but it probably would not have gone over well with customers or Akamai. So they went the sneaky route. I can't comment on the legality of it because I'm not qualified.

But knowing how devious Apple can be by having this set out in front of my face, I'm going to be suspicious if iOS upgrades make my stuff run like utter crap when it's barely a year old. o_O

You seem to be the only person who really understands the negative aspect of all this. Everyone else is "iOS 7 is free and fixed it so who cares and screw Akamai!"
 
It's not mentioned in this article, but iOS 6.1.6 restored FaceTime support. I can't find the original news thread for it though!

Edit: Here it is; it's just a footnote on the 7.0.6 release article and doesn't go into specifics.
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/02/21/apple-ios-706/

An article from February 21, 2014 talking about a fix for a bug that happened on April 16, 2014. That doesn't make sense.
 
An article from February 21, 2014 talking about a fix for a bug that happened on April 16, 2014. That doesn't make sense.
Apple released iOS 6.1.6 and 7, both not dependent on the certificate, plenty of time before the certificate expired. The only people affected by the expiration were those still on 6.1.5 or earlier.
 
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IMHO you are running a risk by upgrading the build on a device that is at least 2 years old.
It is very common that your device will run slower, lag a lot and even burn out completely.
I usually stay the course and keep the builds within one year to avoid this problem.
I think this class action suit will prevail and bring consumer attention and awareness this this every growing problem.
 
yes, Apple made billions selling ios7...O wait, iOS upgrades are free.
We all pay the price for these frivolous lawsuits...it must end.

Unfortunately as they say "only in America" but the real long term solution is that the loser has to pay the costs to the victor which will hopefully mean fewer frivolous cases. End of the day there is a problem and Apple provided a solution - the customer doesn't like the solution then tough toe nails, go buy an Android and see how things work out for you.
 
Do you miss this? :D

game_center_5.jpg


inviting-friends.jpg


mza_5832530847417736514.jpeg


iphoto-03-700x466.jpg

Wow, that's bad. And I remember liking the Voice Memos interface :) Still hate the current app icons though. Look at that camera icon! Can't get over it, even after 4+ years!
 
oh... my... holy.... crap... it's a COMPANY... COMPANIES EXIST TO MAKE MONEY. They can "break" whatever they want, whenever they want. This is just unbelievably pathetic...

Well thankfully you're not in charge of consumer laws :)

Yes they are a business and they exist to make money - but they also have a duty to ensure products last a reasonable amount of time, and work to a good standard throughout that lifespan.
 
So what is the problem here? Apple doesn't charge for upgrades. They also stop supporting older software.

Why don't you just READ the article?

"According to the lawsuit, Apple forced users to upgrade so it could avoid payments on a data deal with Akamai."
 
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So what is the problem here? Apple doesn't charge for upgrades. They also stop supporting older software.
Let's have a look at how Apple makes money. Not by selling software or giving it away for free. Software is a means to sell new devices each three years.
Modifications and features in new software versions are a cloak to make older hardware less attractive/ usable/ functioning ... and force you to buy new hardware.
On June 27th, 2007 I was so proud of my first iPhone. It still functions as a phone. Unfortunately all apps (except the native ones) have ceased to function as a commercial choice made by Apple (and not a malfunction of the app).

All those law suits against Apple can be demerited on individual level. On a higher level we all know and feel something isn't right. This will backfire eventually unless the morals of the executive team changes.
 
Because apple cares enough yo force you to upgrade breaking things in the process when nothing was wrong originally!
 
Did they? Can you point me to which paragraph that's in? I can't seem to make heads or tails of that. But I've been battling a head cold all day.

Anyway if they did that, what was the point of the bug that broke FT? The article makes it seem the bug was intentional. Gah, so confused now.
There was a huge thread here about it. That's why some people were upset because devices not eligible for iOS 7 did get a software update for the FaceTime fix. But the only fix for iOS 7 eligible devices was to upgrade to iOS 7. My guestion always was if your device was iOS 7 eligible of course when you checked for software update that's what you were going to get. Apple doesn't give people a choice in what update to install or let peoplw roll back once an update is installed. Since non iOS 7 eligible devices did get a fix won't it be kind of hard to for them to prove Apple did this on purpose?
 
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I 100% agree.

iPhone 5 with iOS 6 is the gold standard.

What I would do to get the old UI, but refined to accommodate today's needs and features...

Glassed Silver:mac
I don't even mind the new UI that much except that it lags almost as badly as Android. I just want to play my music without waiting for animations to finish when I'm navigating menus.
 
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iPhone 5 with iOS 6 is the gold standard.
Not even close. I used to own a 5 with iOS 7 and it ran just fine and I pushed it pretty hard too. I actually found iOS6's more real to life UI looking horrible and a mess to sort through. Sure 7.0 was not perfect but eventually iOS7 became really good.

Glassed Silver:mac
You refuse to put this in your signature because?
 
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I think this case rests on the specifics of exactly what Apple did to cause a digital certificate to prematurely expire. This is my field of expertise so I'm particularly interested in the details.
 
I remember I was one of those who was forced to update with my iPhone 4s and iOS 7 dramatically lowered multitasking usability with constant app restarting and safari pages reloading if you twitched away for more than 1 minute.
I can remember trying to post info to online forms and I had to switch away to notes to copy some text and when I returned back the form was lost and had to start all over.
Now iOS 10 is starting to do this with my iPhone 6. I return back to safari or an app and it starts or reloads again. Never did that with iOS 8.
Communicating with users with my iOS 10 device and my coworkers using iOS 8 & 9 via FaceTime is a regular event and we are just waiting for Apple to pull the rug out using their iPhone 4s devices. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
 
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Lawsuits are a math problem. 87% adoption, so 13% and decreasing were using the prior OS. Not all of them used FaceTime to begin with. So some declining fraction of 13%, say around 6-7% were inconvenienced. The suit says harmed and thus triggering a suit to begin with.

What was the harm? Loss of use of a single feature on a multitude feature phone, unless you did a free upgrade. I do not know how much that is worth, but it sure sounds like it's worth a lot more to the lawyers than any affected users in $.

The value to Apple was an annual savings of around $300 million. Not chump change. Very little of that would translate to user harm either.
 
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