Leaked EU Document Could Spell Major Changes for App Store, Messages, FaceTime, Browsers, and Siri

[icanhazmac]

I'm fairly certain that market forces alone would prevent your worst case scenario (the occasional sale notwithstanding).

Most people, I'm convinced, will continue to use the App Store just as most people use the Play Store on Android. The developer in your 24.99 scenario is probably pricing themselves out of the market.

The real question is probably whether App a Store apps could offer different payment providers price those differently?

Press here for Apple Pay: 1.49
Press here for PayPal: 0.99

That in itself would spell massive trouble for Apple's pricing.

While my .99 vs 24.99 was obviously an extreme case it is by no means unlikely. If a dev decides they want the vast majority of their sales to go through their store then they price their app in the Apple store at a ridiculous price and "force" users to their store.

For me... Apple store, Apple payment processing, alt-store can use who ever they want. Charge whatever real cost difference is necessary but I do not want want to be forced by legislation to have to give all my personal and payment info to umpteen different entities.

 

[obviouslogic]

Apple’s entire business model is about tight vertical integration with hardware, software, and services… this is what makes them competitive with other OEMS who just grab a copy of Android and use that instead of developing their own platform.

So if this passes, iOS devices no longer have that unique advantage and may not be worth Apple’s time to re-architect their platform… They’ll either abandon the EU, or create a completely closed “feature” phone, with no 3rd party developer support and no App Store.

This is part of the EU’s push to force Apple out so they can reach their goal of a single platform (Android) where every user only has access to the exact same software, services, ports, and technologies.

 

[AppliedMicro]

but I do not want want to be forced by legislation to have to give all my personal and payment info to umpteen different entities.

Again: you are not forced to. As long as Apple operates their App Store, you can limit yourself to downloading apps from Apple and their App Store only - so you have to provide your information to them only. And last time I looked, they had a very wide, huge selection of apps available.

If a particular app isn’t available on Apple’s App Store, you can use another alternative app. There‘s choice. If you don‘t like an app‘s pricing or distribution model, you vote with your money and download and install something else from your preferred store.

 

[icanhazmac]

Again: you are not forced to. As long as Apple operates their App Store, you can limit yourself to downloading apps from Apple - so you have to provide your information to Apple only. And last time I looked, they have a very wide, huge selection of apps available.

If a particular app isn’t available on Apple’s App Store, you can use another alternative app. There‘s choice. If you don‘t like an app‘s pricing or distribution model, you vote with your money and download and install something else.

Again, I am being FORCED by legislation to make that choice.

Why not let the market decide this instead of brainless politicians, you leave Apple and if enough of you exist and Apple loses enough customers then they will change their model.

 

[frankinnoho]

How much of this about “standards”, and how much of this is about “…give us back doors or we’re going to make your life miserable”? Because if it’s about standards, maybe the European’s should focus on the ten so so types of a/c wall outlets BEFORE fretting over what’s plugged into them. And if it’s about back doors, Apple, don’t back down.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Again, I am being FORCED by legislation to make that choice.

No, not „again“, we‘re talking different things here:

I do not want want to be forced by legislation to have to give all my personal and payment info to umpteen different entities

Please explain how/why you‘re „forced“ to provide all your „personal and payment info to umpteen different entities“ by this legislation?

Or do you now agree that you’re not forced to give up this info, when you can buy apps exclusively from Apple’s App Store - just as you do today?

Sure, not every app may be available from Apple’s App Store. But then, not every retail item is available in all retail stores, some are exclusive to a single or very few outlets. So you’re making purchasing choices everyday for all kinds of things, don‘t you?

Conversely, many items are prohibited by legislation from being offered and sold in all retail stores. Many products are restricted and limited to certain kinds of stores or to be sold only to certain groups of customers.

 

[Sf844]

How much of this about “standards”, and how much of this is about “…give us back doors or we’re going to make your life miserable”? Because if it’s about standards, maybe the European’s should focus on the ten so so types of a/c wall outlets BEFORE fretting over what’s plugged into them. And if it’s about back doors, Apple, don’t back down.

Ahh, the joy of naivety.

So you think that Apple, the CCP's big American darling, is about keeping governments away, don't you.

That's why the Chinese government signs $275Bn contracts with them, allows them to operate tariff free in the country, don't retaliate in kind after Huawei, and so on and so forth. Because they're a very secretive company that would never spy on their users, while being partners with the most controlling government on Earth.

But, but only in China huh? Apart from that, they're super reliable I'm sure!

Join the dots man.

Apple isn't secure because it doesn't meet the minimum security standards: open source, peer review, aggressive bounties.

If they're not willing to have their code audited, if they're not willing to allow independent third parties to review it, if they're not paying people at a large scale to find vulnerabilities, they don't care about security.

Apple isn't about privacy, otherwise they would have never gone into biometrics and would never be allowed in China, Russia... let alone be best friends.

All you think is security and privacy is, actually, marketing. And that is indeed paramount to them.

 

[icanhazmac]

No, not „again“, we‘re talking different things here:

Please explain how/why you‘re „forced“ to provide all you „personal and payment info to umpteen different entities“ by this legislation?

Or do you now agree that you’re not forced to give up this info, when you can buy apps exclusively from Apple’s App Store - just as you do today?

If the market is force fragmented by legislation then I am forced to move outside the iOS app store if I value that app, how hard is that to understand? In a fragmented market I potentially lose the option to buy an iOS app from Apple. As it is today I get everything I want from Apple, tomorrow I could be forced to sign up on another store just to get updates for an app I already bought.

 

[icanhazmac]

Please explain how/why you‘re „forced“ to provide all you „personal and payment info to umpteen different entities“ by this legislation?

If alt-stores are force legislated into existence then in order to update apps I already own I need to sign up for the alt-store, multiply that by all the apps I own equals umpteen different entities.

Today only Apple gets my info, with alt-stores the alt-store and the alt-payment processor get my info, hence umpteen entities.

 

[t76turbo]

Oh this is a totally great thing that will have no negative effects whatsoever.


It's a shame we can't fine the supporters of this 100% of the damages that will result.

yep. Wish we could fine them all.


And I also look forward to all the millennials (I know it’s not only them) that think they want to load a bunch of 3rd party apps but after one crashes their phone and hacks their data they are going to be looking for refunds, repairs under warranty, and apple to provide them a ‘safe space’!!!

 

[Sf844]

yep. Wish we could fine them all.


And I also look forward to all the millennials (I know it’s not only them) that think they want to load a bunch of 3rd party apps but after one crashes their phone and hacks their data they are going to be looking for refunds, repairs under warranty, and apple to provide them a ‘safe space’!!!

Mission Impossible: download Microsoft Office from www.microsoft.com

Don't you people have laptops or what? Aren't you sharp enough to tell between a russian wives seller and www.adobe.com ?

Because sometimes it sounds like you're 6 years old or have some cognitive problems. I bet some of you still think a 4.7 inches smartphone won't fit in you jeans' pockets. Collateral damage of Apple's marketing, soon to be an accepted disease.

 

[AppliedMicro]

If the market is force fragmented by legislation then I am forced to move outside the iOS app store if I value that app (…) In a fragmented market I potentially lose the option to buy an iOS app from Apple

You could - but I believe the impact on you would be rather inconsequential when…

Apps are very much like being able to get a specific tshirt in terms of their impact on life

Isn’t the availability of different designs and prints of T-Shirts worth the minor nuisance of being „forced“ to choose the store you go to - just because there isn‘t one single store that sells all T-Shirts available on the market? It’d be a very small drawback for the freedom we could get by allowing sideloading, isn’t it?

If I had to change to a flip phone tomorrow I would not die. The single biggest annoyance would be directions but guess what, people have existed for a very long time without map app

Honestly, it‘s a bit hard to reconcile how not very important apps are for you in one thread - and how you‘re getting worked up about „being forced to choose“ which App Store to use by this legislation.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Consumers and Developers have no recourse or leverage against the most valuable company in the world.
Not sure how you think this is supposed to work if not accomplished through regulation.

I’m not seeing the merits on the arguments. Apple is not the sole player in these realms, there’s plenty of choice. The way I “think it’s supposed to work” is for public desire, not law, to move Apple to make these changes. If they never do, my opinion is that’s within their rights to operate their hardware and software unless and until it becomes anti-competitive or wrong for them to do so. I don’t think they’re at that point yet, but again, that’s just my personal opinion.

 

[icanhazmac]

It’d be a very small drawback for the freedom we could get by allowing sideloading, isn’t it?

Exactly what freedom are you looking for? If it is the apps Apple won't allow into the store you can do that already. If you think the price of apps will go down I have a bridge to sell you... very low mileage!

On the other hand those of us that appreciate and chose the "walled garden" with our dollars are going to lose a unique, one stop shop ecosystem that cannot be replaced.

Your loss of porn apps seems a small price to pay to preserve this unique, one of a kind, ecosystem doesn't it?

Again I ask, why don't YOU vote with your dollars and leave Apple? If there are enough like you then Apple will change.

 

[frankinnoho]

Ahh, the joy of naivety.

About the response one could expect… same type of drivel we been getting from Google all the years about privacy, or why you shouldn’t expect any, and a diversionary shot at the CCP. Though doth protest too loudly.

All while avoiding the obvious. IF this is about standards, why attack this particular device, a minority device outside the US, why attack iMessage, with so few users outside the US, as well as the App Store and iCloud… especially when Apple customers are not even asking for this?

They are not attacking Apple… they are attacking Apple customers.

 

[Sf844]

About the response one could expect… same type of drivel we been getting from Google all the years about privacy, or why you shouldn’t expect any, and a diversionary shot at the CCP. Though doth protest too loudly.

All while avoiding the obvious. IF this is about standards, why attack this particular device, a minority device outside the US, why attack iMessage, with so few users outside the US, as well as the App Store and iCloud… especially when Apple customers are not even asking for this?

They are not attacking Apple… they are attacking Apple customers.

But they're not targeting Apple. It affects everybody. It's not targeting iMessage either, it's the same for WhatsApp and any other app coming from a too big to care corporation.

And by the way, talking about objective facts as "drivel" leaves a very narrow margin for any rational discussion.

 

[AppliedMicro]

If it is the apps Apple won't allow into the store you can do that already.

The funny thing is:
1. I as an end user customer can’t do it in any convenient way. Apple have made it really inconvenient…
2. …unless I‘m using one of the alternative App Stores that abuse Apple’s Enterprise certificates
3. …which they don’t seem to make a very good job of taking action against.
4. …same as the fake phishing apps that are on their app store for weeks, despite their review
5. …when all the while they’re making these bold claims of undermined security.

 

[frankinnoho]

And by the way, talking about objective facts as "drivel" leaves a very narrow margin for any rational discussion.

And I suppose the “Ahh, the joy of naivety” comment was all about rais the level of the discussion? Sorkenesque snark is tell.

 

[mikethemartian]

Apple’s entire business model is about tight vertical integration with hardware, software, and services… this is what makes them competitive with other OEMS who just grab a copy of Android and use that instead of developing their own platform.

So if this passes, iOS devices no longer have that unique advantage and may not be worth Apple’s time to re-architect their platform… They’ll either abandon the EU, or create a completely closed “feature” phone, with no 3rd party developer support and no App Store.

This is part of the EU’s push to force Apple out so they can reach their goal of a single platform (Android) where every user only has access to the exact same software, services, ports, and technologies.

That was AT&T’s and IBM’s business model as well.

 

[dk001]

If phones replaced computers, do we need computers? Why should it become what it's replacing?

I need a computer. I don't want my phone acting as one.

I had a cell phone and did calls / texts.
I had a pc that I did pc stuff on.

They evolved.

These days a serious number of functions are interchangeable. I am quite sure that the distinction between them will continue to blur even more.

 

[dk001]

I'm fairly certain that market forces alone would prevent your worst case scenario (the occasional sale notwithstanding).

Most people, I'm convinced, will continue to use the App Store just as most people use the Play Store on Android. The developer in your 24.99 scenario is probably pricing themselves out of the market.

The real question is probably whether App a Store apps could offer different payment providers price those differently?

Press here for Apple Pay: 1.49
Press here for PayPal: 0.99

That in itself would spell massive trouble for Apple's pricing.

One aspect I sincerely hope changes is this ridiculous in-app subscription crap Apple has been pushing.
If the App Store has it while the indie site does not, guess where I am buying.

Ain’t the App Store.

 

[icanhazmac]

The funny thing is:
1. I as an end user customer can’t do it in any convenient way. Apple have made it really inconvenient…
2. …unless I‘m using one of the alternative App Stores that abuse Apple’s Enterprise certificates
3. …which they don’t seem to make a very good job of taking action against.
4. …same as the fake phishing apps that are on their app store for weeks, despite their review
5. …when all the while they’re making these bold claims of undermined security.

So? Seems a small price to pay to preserve the only single source ecosystem of its kind?

You vote with your dollars, if Apple loses enough of you they will change, let the market decide.

 

[Michael Scrip]

One aspect I sincerely hope changes is this ridiculous in-app subscription crap Apple has been pushing. If the App Store has it while the indie site does not, guess where I am buying.

Ain’t the App Store.

Isn't that the developer's decision?

Developers realized they could make more income, steady reoccurring income, if they do subscriptions.

I'm not saying I like it... but that's why they do it.

Developers could offer one-time payments in the App Store right now if they wanted. They don't need an alternative indie store to do it.

 

[avz]

Ahh, the joy of naivety.

So you think that Apple, the CCP's big American darling, is about keeping governments away, don't you.

Have you ever considered that Apple(as well as other digital giants) see themselves as "the government"?
It is all about power, anybody who thinks that it is about some dumb sideloading(or money) is extremely naive.
The real question here is: do people trust digital corporations more than they trust their actual governments?

 

[Damian83]

That is generally true in any product. If I buy a part in a BMW box it's often 2 to 3x as expensive as an OEM part. The big difference in Apple's and other electronic manufacture's products is tehre generallya re no OEM parts avaliable since they can, via IP and supplier agreements, prevent them from coming to the market.

Actually, no! There are 3 kinds of service (talking of cars):
1) The 100% official (don't know how is called in english), let's say BMW.
2) The authorized but not official service, that still uses genuine parts. This one, at least in italy and poland (only 2 countries im 100% sure), still mantains warranty. There was a political debate similar to these ones against apple, eventually won be the "people", because, before, people was forced to spend tons of €€€ for mandatory maintenance at "BMW" in order to keep the warranty valid. I think it became a general law in all UE
3) unauthorized service that uses OEM parts, that invalids warranty

Now, talking of apple, the service types are the same, but with a huge difference: price for service 1 and 2 are the same, while going to an authorized (not official) service with your car, costs u a lot less money than the official one...