Leaked M4 MacBook Pro Appears for Sale on Russian Classifieds Site

[Reason077]

I’m sure that Apple is conducting their own investigations on the DL

I wonder, if the serial numbers of the stolen batch/shipment are identified, can Apple brick them remotely? Or at least block them from iCloud and other Apple services?

Or are Russians blocked from accessing Apple services already anyway due to sanctions?

 

[svish]

Surprised to see that it is even on sale. Apple will definitely be investigating.

 

[Smartuser]

This wouldn't be the first time that Apple has reused old boxes for new Macs. In fact, it's happened many times before. They even put new labels over the old ones in some cases.

Really? They sold new models with the box art for the previous one? When?

 

[JPack]

Really? They sold new models with the box art for the previous one? When?

MBA M2 M3.

 

[Smartuser]

MBA M2 M3.

Okay, but MacBook Pro?

 

[Smartuser]

You know something has gone horribly wrong, when leaks of this magnitude are not even the same level as iPhone 4 leak event back then, when on the surface, it would have been far more serious and impactful.

Not sure what you mean. They're certainly investigating this, but it's never been their style (at least since Steve Jobs) to keep the outside world up on the minutiae of an investigation.

The general public isn't going to care as much as with an iPhone.

 

[JPack]

Okay, but MacBook Pro?

MBP 13 M1 M2 were the same.

 

[Smartuser]

MBP 13 M1 M2 were the same.

Those weren't computers. They stunk .

(Why? Because the corresponding MacBook Airs were much better products.)

Alright, I see I'm kinda doing a "No True Scotsman" here. I'll still maintain that I find it unlikely that Apple would leave the box art for a real MBP unchanged, and since last year, they've integrated the base model 14" MBP into the main MBP product line so that externally, it looks just like the "real" MBPs save for the ports and scales all the way up to the fully maxed out model. Package art included.

For that reason, I'm still not convinced of the packaging for the upcoming M4 MBP base model looking like the M3 one.

But I gotta admit when I didn't know something, and that was certainly the case here.

I'll post a smug reply here if I'm right about the packaging when it comes out officially.

 

[JPack]

Those weren't computers. They stunk .

(Why? Because the corresponding MacBook Airs were much better products.)

Alright, I see I'm kinda doing a "No True Scotsman" here. I'll still maintain that I find it unlikely that Apple would leave the box art for a real MBP unchanged, and since last year, they've integrated the base model 14" MBP into the main MBP product line so that externally, it looks just like the "real" MBPs save for the ports and scales all the way up to the fully maxed out model. Package art included.

For that reason, I'm still not convinced of the packaging for the upcoming M4 MBP base model looking like the M3 one.

But I gotta admit when I didn't know something, and that was certainly the case here.

I'll post a smug reply here if I'm right about the packaging when it comes out officially.

Base model MBP is an entry level product, so the counterpoint would be Apple sometimes deliberately uses the same box art between generations to somewhat discourage people from buying it.

If we think about this logically, would the Russian YouTubers go, "We can fake everything from the rear label to the Quick Start Guide to the unique packaging for the power adapter. We can also do the "About This Mac" video. But for the box art, let's leave that untouched to create doubt."

 

[Smartuser]

Base model MBP is an entry level product, so the counterpoint would be Apple sometimes deliberately uses the same box art between generations to somewhat discourage people from buying it.

Interesting theory that they would reuse the box art to discourage people. The box art is not something that gets advertised, and it's not easily visible in stores before one buys something, so I doubt that it plays a major part in purchasing decisions. ("Oh man, I was totally going to buy this new MacBook Air, but after looking at the box art, I'll just go home instead.")

Deliberately discouraging people from buying their products isn't really their way from all I've seen over the years.

If we think about this logically, would the Russian YouTubers go, "We can fake everything from the rear label to the Quick Start Guide to the unique packaging for the power adapter. We can also do the "About This Mac" video. But for the box art, let's leave that untouched to create doubt."

They already created some minor doubt with the widely varying Geekbench results. Those can also potentially be faked:

It's been discussed here that the box art (which is only on the lid, not the bottom) may have been the old one because Apple wanted to make it less visible that these are new MBPs. It's also possible that the new lids haven't been printed yet because these MBPs are not for sale yet.

My point is not that the old box art proves anything one way or another or sows doubt, I was just interested in cases where Apple left box art the same. That has been answered.

 

[JPack]

Interesting theory that they would reuse the box art to discourage people. The box art is not something that gets advertised, and it's not easily visible in stores before one buys something, so I doubt that it plays a major part in purchasing decisions. ("Oh man, I was totally going to buy this new MacBook Air, but after looking at the box art, I'll just go home instead.")

Deliberately discouraging people from buying their products isn't really their way from all I've seen over the years.

That's a somewhat U.S.-centric view. If we look at how these are sold globally, the boxes are highly visible. The Apple Store is dominant in the U.S., but elsewhere, resellers have far more power and put up products on display. It's not about "going home," but rather drawing more attention to the higher margin Pro/Max models.

 

[JPack]

They already created somo minor doubt with the widely varying Geekbench results. Those can also potentially be faked:

It's been discussed here that the box art (which is only on the lid, not the bottom) may have been the old one because Apple wanted to make it less visible that these are new MBPs. It's also possible that the new lids haven't been printed yet because these MBPs are not for sale yet.

My point is not that the old box art proves anything one way or another or sows doubt, I was just interested in cases where Apple left box art the same. That has been answered.

Consider the totality of the situation. The YouTubers would have to risk their 11 million subscriber count for a measly MacBook Pro M4 base model unveil. They're not getting any YouTube revenue either due to sanctions, so what's the upside?

GB scores will vary depending on system and ambient temp and the number of runs previously been done.

Apple isn't going to use "old" box art because the new ones haven't been printed. That's just silly. If it's a pre-production unit, there's zero reason to box it up because it's not even for sale.

If the new box art isn't ready, there's zero reason to box it up either. What are they going to do with these boxed up units? Unbox them later, replace, and reseal with new lid? That's a make-work project.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I’m sure that Apple is conducting their own investigations on the DL

Probably waiting to see how much this thing goes for before setting the retail prices

 

[Madhatter32]

Those weren't computers. They stunk .

(Why? Because the corresponding MacBook Airs were much better products.)

Alright, I see I'm kinda doing a "No True Scotsman" here. I'll still maintain that I find it unlikely that Apple would leave the box art for a real MBP unchanged, and since last year, they've integrated the base model 14" MBP into the main MBP product line so that externally, it looks just like the "real" MBPs save for the ports and scales all the way up to the fully maxed out model. Package art included.

For that reason, I'm still not convinced of the packaging for the upcoming M4 MBP base model looking like the M3 one.

But I gotta admit when I didn't know something, and that was certainly the case here.

I'll post a smug reply here if I'm right about the packaging when it comes out officially.

For the youth:

Logical fallacy of the "No True Scotsman"

The “appeal to authority” — the changing of the original argument to evade a counter-argument. You claim a Scotsman never drinks scotch with soda. Charles says he is a Scotsman and drinks scotch with soda. You exclaim that Charles must not be a true Scotsman!

 

[Smartuser]

For the youth:

Logical fallacy of the "No True Scotsman"

The “appeal to authority” — the changing of the original argument to evade a counter-argument. You claim a Scotsman never drinks scotch with soda. Charles says he is a Scotsman and drinks scotch with soda. You exclaim that Charles must not be a true Scotsman!

No True Scotsman isn't an appeal to authority, it's more like moving the goalposts.

An appeal to authority would be arguing that something is true just because an authority, e.g., a podcaster or a person that has a high position in a company has said it.

 

[Smartuser]

Consider the totality of the situation. The YouTubers would have to risk their 11 million subscriber count for a measly MacBook Pro M4 base model unveil. They're not getting any YouTube revenue either due to sanctions, so what's the upside?

GB scores will vary depending on system and ambient temp and the number of runs previously been done.

Apple isn't going to use "old" box art because the new ones haven't been printed. That's just silly. If it's a pre-production unit, there's zero reason to box it up because it's not even for sale.

If the new box art isn't ready, there's zero reason to box it up either. What are they going to do with these boxed up units? Unbox them later, replace, and reseal with new lid? That's a make-work project.

It's fantastic that you know exactly how many Macs are sold in different countries in which ways, how packaging motivates people, how Apple goes about packaging unreleased Macs and a host of other things.

Questions remain. Why would someone post three very different Geekbench stores? If Apple doesn't bother packaging unreleased (not pre-production) units, then who boxed them (or at least the unit that's shown) up?

Lastly, if everything is so logical down to the last atom according to you, then how could these get stolen and activated? I don't have the answers to that either, but somehow, somewhere a cluster**** must have happened that's not necessarily caused by someone behaving logically, but by something going wrong.

 

[JPack]

It's fantastic that you know exactly how many Macs are sold in different countries in which ways, how packaging motivates people, how Apple goes about packaging unreleased Macs and a host of other things.

Questions remain. Why would someone post three very different Geekbench stores? If Apple doesn't bother packaging unreleased (not pre-production) units, then who boxed them (or at least the unit that's shown) up?

Lastly, if everything is so logical down to the last atom according to you, then how could these get stolen and activated? I don't have the answers to that either, but somehow, somewhere a cluster**** must have happened that's not necessarily caused by someone behaving logically, but by something going wrong.

I don't need to know exactly how many Macs are sold globally. I've travelled the world. I've seen how different retailers sell Apple products. If Apple packaging is "not something that gets advertised, and it's not easily visible in stores," then Apple would use plain text-only packaging like they do for their Certified Refurbished products. Clearly, customers look at the packaging before buying.



Who says Apple doesn't package unreleased products? Clearly they do.

How could it be stolen? So many parts of the supply chain allow it to happen. Apple hands pallets over to UPS for shipping all over the world.

In past years, Chinese leakers opened and activated pre-release iPhones days before official availability. You can find those photos if you look. They have Apple markings on each of them that read "If opened and activated before X date, RMB 20k fine applies." Some leakers did it and were prosecuted in China.

"Oh the boxes are the same" or "there's variability in GB scores" is normal.

The simplest explanation is these units were stolen. The claim that "oh the lids are different because Apple hides the top (but not the bottom)" or "the new lids haven't been printed yet" is just outlandish. The M4 chip has been designed, M4 MacBook Pro tested and in production, inside packaging all ready, but the LID isn't. Come on.

 

[steve123]

The WSL reported yesterday that China detained four Taiwanese employees at a Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou. The report was picked up by the BBC today. The reports did not link the M4 MBP leak with the employees but it seems possible that the two events are related.

China Detains Employees at Apple iPhone Factory Run by Foxconn — The Wall Street Journal

Taiwan says investor confidence may be damaged after four Taiwanese are held

apple.news

China detains iPhone maker workers in 'strange' case — BBC News

The Taiwanese government suggested the detentions may be a case of "abuse of power" by Chinese police.

apple.news

 

[JPack]

The WSL reported yesterday that China detained four Taiwanese employees at a Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou. The report was picked up by the BBC today. The reports did not link the M4 MBP leak with the employees but it seems possible that the two events are related.

China Detains Employees at Apple iPhone Factory Run by Foxconn — The Wall Street Journal

Taiwan says investor confidence may be damaged after four Taiwanese are held

apple.news

China detains iPhone maker workers in 'strange' case — BBC News

The Taiwanese government suggested the detentions may be a case of "abuse of power" by Chinese police.

apple.news

Zhengzhou doesn’t do MacBook. Production is in Shanghai by Quanta or Chengdu by Foxconn.

 

[tenthousandthings]

The WSL reported yesterday that China detained four Taiwanese employees at a Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou. The report was picked up by the BBC today. The reports did not link the M4 MBP leak with the employees but it seems possible that the two events are related.

China Detains Employees at Apple iPhone Factory Run by Foxconn — The Wall Street Journal

Taiwan says investor confidence may be damaged after four Taiwanese are held

apple.news

China detains iPhone maker workers in 'strange' case — BBC News

The Taiwanese government suggested the detentions may be a case of "abuse of power" by Chinese police.

apple.news

No, this is not related, it’s political. Fairly big news because it involves Apple for the first time I’m aware of, but this Chinese pressure on Taiwan by arresting its citizens has been ratcheting up since 2017 or so. It’s nothing new.

 

[JPack]

No, this is not related, it’s political. Fairly big news because it involves Apple for the first time I’m aware of, but this Chinese pressure on Taiwan by arresting its citizens has been ratcheting up since 2017 or so. It’s nothing new.

No reason to suggest it's political. The Taiwanese managers from Foxconn run the assembly site. There's corruption abound since those individuals call the shots in the city.

Taiwan's Mainland Affairs Council, in a statement to Reuters on Thursday, said the four employees had been detained in China's Zhengzhou, home to a major Foxconn plant assembling Apple's iPhones, on suspicion of the equivalent of "breach of trust."

"The circumstances of this case are quite strange," it said.

The case may be connected to corruption and abuse of power by a small number of Chinese security officials, the council added, without giving details.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-says-four-foxconn-employees-detained-china-2024-10-10/

 

[Smartuser]

I don't need to know exactly how many Macs are sold globally. I've travelled the world.

I've travelled the world as well. So what do we do now? I don't think p...ing contests like that are very constructive.

Traveling doesn't tell you or anyone else the relative importance of national markets. Since Apple doesn't reveal this information, it can only come from third parties, and those don't always get it right.

I've seen how different retailers sell Apple products. If Apple packaging is "not something that gets advertised, and it's not easily visible in stores," then Apple would use plain text-only packaging like they do for their Certified Refurbished products. Clearly, customers look at the packaging before buying.

View attachment 2435742

So does the packaging of Apple refurbished products get advertised? Why not? Does it make a difference for people who buy refurbished?

Who says Apple doesn't package unreleased products? Clearly they do.

I certainly never said this.

How could it be stolen? So many parts of the supply chain allow it to happen. Apple hands pallets over to UPS for shipping all over the world.

In past years, Chinese leakers opened and activated pre-release iPhones days before official availability. You can find those photos if you look. They have Apple markings on each of them that read "If opened and activated before X date, RMB 20k fine applies." Some leakers did it and were prosecuted in China.

"Oh the boxes are the same" or "there's variability in GB scores" is normal.

The simplest explanation is these units were stolen. The claim that "oh the lids are different because Apple hides the top (but not the bottom)" or "the new lids haven't been printed yet" is just outlandish. The M4 chip has been designed, M4 MacBook Pro tested and in production, inside packaging all ready, but the LID isn't. Come on.

"Come on" is the key to all your reasoning. "Come on", You've travelled the world, you've seen everything, you know everything about everything. The only thing you don't have is authoritative sources.

We know that there is one video in which one person shows off a MacBook Pro that is most likely a new one with an M4. We also know that the box he's taking it out of has the same artwork as the M3 one. That's the extent of it. Unless you were directly involved in the part of Apple that had these MacBooks stolen, you know nothing valuable in addition to that as far as I'm concerned.

If it's real, it can only have been stolen, sure. I don't remember denying that either, you're putting a lot of words in my mouth.

It's just an interesting question how this could have happened and whether there are any hints in any direction in how this is packaged. The general consensus in the community seems to be that there are none because it would be possible to fake things, but on the other hand the effort would be considerable.

Specifically about the packaging of these MacBooks (of which we know one to exist, and we don't know where the packaging ultimately came from), Apple is free to temporarily store their new machines in old boxes, new boxes, new boxes with old lids, old boxes with new lines, boxes without lids, those white envelopes they use when they hand you back your repaired Macs in the store, old t-shirts, plastic bags, anything else or nothing at all.

Ultimately, we can only speculate, which is fun unless someone shoots everything down with "come on" reasoning.

 

[JPack]

As expected, confirmed by Gurman these are real.

Scores of unannounced M4 MacBook Pros — ready for retail sale — got into the wrong hands overseas and appeared on a pair of Russian YouTube channels (1, 2). I can confirm that these are indeed Apple’s upcoming M4 MacBook Pros. And given that Apple has shut off its sales to Russia, I believe these were stolen elsewhere in Europe before being sent to the country.

How did this happen before the product was even announced? Well, Apple wants to be able to get devices into the hands of consumers as soon as possible after introduction. So it spends weeks filling up warehouses in many parts of the world ahead of time. There are also thousands of unannounced new iMacs and Mac minis out there as well (they just haven’t popped up on YouTube). I expect the new Mac models to begin going on sale around Nov. 1. Apple should be unveiling them in the next few weeks, in line with plans I reported several months ago.

Though the new MacBook Pro update isn’t impressive outside of a much faster M4 chip, the fact that the product got in the hands of Apple outsiders is remarkable. The packaging has the same wallpaper as last year’s M3 MacBook Pro — an odd and rare choice — but I am certain these machines are the real deal. The leaked units appear to represent the new base models, with 16 gigabytes of memory as well as 10 cores apiece for central processing and graphics. The specifications — as well as the internal model numbers for the device — all align with what I’ve been reporting for weeks.

Apple Has a New Smart Home Strategy: Screens Everywhere

Apple is finally preparing to compete for the smart home market after falling behind Amazon and Google. Also: The Vision Pro team ponders its next steps; Apple Intelligence approaches; the next MacBook Pro shows up early in Russia; and two top executives are retiring.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Fred Zed]

So was the Russian YouTuber handling a real m4 MacBook or not ?

 

[hagjohn]

As expected, confirmed by Gurman these are real.

Apple Has a New Smart Home Strategy: Screens Everywhere

Apple is finally preparing to compete for the smart home market after falling behind Amazon and Google. Also: The Vision Pro team ponders its next steps; Apple Intelligence approaches; the next MacBook Pro shows up early in Russia; and two top executives are retiring.

www.bloomberg.com

If Apple wants to develop a HomeOS, you have to have something to be on it and many "home" products are junk. Home app doesn't always work properly. Starting with buying a "screen" isn't going to bring happiness, until the there are good products to add to it. I have not even mentioned that I have a Mac, iPhone, iPad, and 2 apple TV's, so what other "screens" do I really need?