Lenovo Passes Apple in U.S. PC Shipments As Worldwide Market Flatlines

[quackers82]

I might be missing something here, but prior to moving to Mac back in 2011 i would always upgrade my laptop or PC at the least after 2 years, was once a year for a while.

Now i don't want to upgrade my 2011 Macbook Air, and its 3-4 years old, thats a record for me! Why would i, its not slow in the slightest and does everything i need without struggling the battery still lasts hours and hours, best computer i ever bought.

So what are you people who say you don't see anything that makes you want to upgrade your Mac running ? Do you just upgrade for upgrade sakes or when you actually have a need? Because I'm loving the long lifespan of my Mac in terms of usage.

 

[kis]

I think you will find most of, if not all of your Mac came from communist China....but don't worry capitalist Apple made the requisite profit from you!

except that the chips and oder component aren't designed in China and thus won't contain Chinese government backdoors. I'd never buy a Lenovo product.

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Wow, that was fast. My favorite show ever!

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This is also my ideal computer. Like a Mac Pro but for advanced consumers. It could be called the "NerdMac". Apple only wants to produce non-portable laptops called iMacs. They could at least stop using laptop parts in iMacs.

the problem being that most computers sold today are laptops. Nobody still buys desktop computers, except for graphics professionals, who'll buy the Mac Pro range.

 

[sanook997]

This is not surprising at all. Clearly Macs are great computers and non-business users tend to be very comfortable in the Mac ecosystem.

Just as clear though is that Apple has taken a very casual attitude towards fulfilling customer needs and wants. Consider the holes in the product lineup;

There is no modern mini with current specs.

There are no user friendly towers at all, mini-tower, mid-tower or full tower.

There are no OSX tables or convertibles.

Apple cannot make one expensive, specialized computer, essentially one type of AIO (in two sizes), an apparently ignored laptop-in-a-box, and two, partially overlapping lines of laptops and claim to be in the computer business.

There are a lot of great PCs out there at less than $1000 that are more feature-rich and future proof than Macs are. Sure, the readers here prefer Mac but there are a bunch of Windows fans across the world that Apple has to be competitive to.

Congrats on that assessment, I'm a huge Apple user and really do not like (hate) the Office Dell running Windows 8.1; however I totally agree with your points.

When the IT group has to administer hundreds of machines, some high end for engineers to basic machines in the shop there is a real need to be able to have a box thats priced right and easy to reconfigure at will. Apple is a hard sell when you look at it for large complex corporations.

But for me personally, I bring my MBP from home and it sits right here in the office next to my dead (turned off) Dell. I really do dislike W8 that much.

 

[MyMcMac]

The Lenovo T440s is an awesome machine.

- Full HD
- 1,5kg (with two batteries)
- up to two SSDs
- optional WWAN
- long battery life
- Docking Station(s)
- perfect keyboard, not the keyboard you know from the mac
- large and comfortable touchpad
- three usb, displayport, ethernet, vga, smartcard (!), sd
- totally quiet, the fan does not run 95% of the time

It fell off the table several times, there's no scratch visible. It is very durable. And yes it looks like any older thinkpad (they all look the same), but this looks slim and the touch area is smooth. Surprisingly it is a notebook girls want to have. So I figure it may be worth a look for guys buying apple products.

 

[the-msa]

The MODEL of i7. Unless you're saying an i7 is an i7, in which case you're not qualified to argue about hardware.

ok. the 15" macbook pro with 2.0 ghz uses the 4750HQ. thats far less performant than the 4910MQ the schenker uses. and the schenker already costs less. so lets compare to the 2.6 ghz i7 you can choose on the macbook pro, which will set you back another 300€ and widen the price gap.

the 2.6 ghz i7 in the macbook is a 4960HQ. the cpu in the schenker is a 2.9 ghz 4910MQ. the difference isnt huge, but the 4910MQ beats the 4960HQ in benchmarks. i wont bother saying anything else, check the benchmarks.

And again, you say 'but these things don't matter to me'. If you want to compare Apples to Apples, find a same-spec system with the same battery life and profile. It won't be cheaper. People like you who think all that makes a laptop is GPU, CPU, RAM & SSD always come out with the same argument. Then when somebody talks about battery life, or thinness, you then retort with 'that doesn't matter to me'. It's a non-argument, because it's still hardware.

My point is, anyone can chuck a high-end i7, SSD and loads of RAM into a laptop that's thick, heavy and poor quality. There's no innovation in that. You want to talk about Apples being overpriced? Find something that offers exactly what the MacBook Pro does, and then compare the prices.

i'm comparing one laptop to another laptop. you WILL have variations when comparing different laptops (or anything else) and will have a hard time finding another product that offers EXACTLY the same. which is irrelevant anyway because not everybodys needs are exactly the same.

of course its hardware, you right about that. but there seems to be this distinctive gap between people who buy a macbook and people who buy other highend laptops. and again, its not poor built quality just because it isnt aluminium. i cant wait for apple to introduce macbook made of another material, and the fanbase suddenly declaring aluminium the worst material in the history of mankind when other companies use it.

it seems apple users actually use their macbooks on the go, which is why they value battery life so much. others have a laptop to be mobile, but dont use them when they are in the bus, train or whatever. i'm part of the latter group, which is why i dont give too much importance to battery life. in the 5-6 years i own my samsung laptop, i have only put in the battery twice and used it for 1-2 hours. its still in its plastic wrap in the box of the laptop. of course you have to prioritize what you value more.

 

[keysofanxiety]

ok. the 15" macbook pro with 2.0 ghz uses the 4750HQ. thats far less performant than the 4910MQ the schenker uses. and the schenker already costs less. so lets compare to the 2.6 ghz i7 you can choose on the macbook pro, which will set you back another 300€ and widen the price gap.

the 2.6 ghz i7 in the macbook is a 4960HQ. the cpu in the schenker is a 2.9 ghz 4910MQ. the difference isnt huge, but the 4910MQ beats the 4960HQ in benchmarks. i wont bother saying anything else, check the benchmarks.



i'm comparing one laptop to another laptop. you WILL have variations when comparing different laptops (or anything else) and will have a hard time finding another product that offers EXACTLY the same. which is irrelevant anyway because not everybodys needs are exactly the same.

of course its hardware, you right about that. but there seems to be this distinctive gap between people who buy a macbook and people who buy other highend laptops. and again, its not poor built quality just because it isnt aluminium. i cant wait for apple to introduce macbook made of another material, and the fanbase suddenly declaring aluminium the worst material in the history of mankind when other companies use it.

it seems apple users actually use their macbooks on the go, which is why they value battery life so much. others have a laptop to be mobile, but dont use them when they are in the bus, train or whatever. i'm part of the latter group, which is why i dont give too much importance to battery life. in the 5-6 years i own my samsung laptop, i have only put in the battery twice and used it for 1-2 hours. its still in its plastic wrap in the box of the laptop. of course you have to prioritize what you value more.

You've missed the point, again. What I'm trying to say is to get those specs into a system that thin, with that battery life, will be more expensive for another manufacturer to do.

You say "oh, but this one's so much cheaper" -- and then choose to ignore the point that if they were to make the same system to Apple's weight/battery life/thinness, it would be more expensive than Apple's. The point isn't whether or not you care about battery life, or whether you care how thin your laptop is. The point is that you're comparing a plastic 3-inch clunker with a 2 hour battery life with a rMBP, and then saying 'look, this one's cheaper and has a better CPU/GPU, therefore Apple systems are a rip-off'.

You want to make a decent point? Actually price a system whose component and battery/weight/thickness specs are more comparable to the Retina MacBook Pro. And then tell me how much it is.

 

[Steve121178]

I did not expect this,

I would have expected Apple's marketshare in PCs to increase

It's a miracle Apple are doing as well as they are when they are up against companies that sell decent computers for $500 or less.

 

[the-msa]

You've missed the point, again. What I'm trying to say is to get those specs into a system that thin, with that battery life, will be more expensive for another manufacturer to do.

You say "oh, but this one's so much cheaper" -- and then choose to ignore the point that if they were to make the same system to Apple's weight/battery life/thinness, it would be more expensive than Apple's. The point isn't whether or not you care about battery life, or whether you care how thin your laptop is. The point is that you're comparing a plastic 3-inch clunker with a 2 hour battery life with a rMBP, and then saying 'look, this one's cheaper and has a better CPU/GPU, therefore Apple systems are a rip-off'.

You want to make a decent point? Actually price a system whose component and battery/weight/thickness specs are more comparable to the Retina MacBook Pro. And then tell me how much it is.

wait. arent you doing the same? you want to see another laptop thats as thin, light and has the battery life of a macbook thats not more expensive. which probably doesnt exist.

i want to see a macbook that offers the performance of, for example the schenker system i talked about, to a comparable price. which definitely doesnt exist.

 

[phoenixsan]

Apple.....

philosophy never was a dominance of market share. It is more about make computing efficient and no based in arcane commands to do things. Coupled with good design and quality equipment. That sum of things comes with a price, price no so much people are prone to pay. Other thing with the PC market is that many people really dont need a "computer" to do things and get a living and are best served by the combo smartphone-tablet. As the article says, lightweight portables have an appeal, based both in weight and power comsuption, two priced commodities in that segment of the market....

 

[thekeyring]

Odd, I think we all kind of expected PC sales to decline and Mac sales to stay strong.

However, if Mac becomes more of a niche, that's fine. As much as I hate to admit it, one of the cool things about owning one is being one of the few computer owners not running Windows. Lately, they seem as common as PCs.

 

[keysofanxiety]

wait. arent you doing the same? you want to see another laptop thats as thin, light and has the battery life of a macbook thats not more expensive. which probably doesnt exist.

i want to see a macbook that offers the performance of, for example the schenker system i talked about, to a comparable price. which definitely doesnt exist.

Correct, I am doing the same, which just goes to show how uncomparable the systems are. Apple create portable computers with a different specification in mind. And although you can say 'one's thinner, the other's more powerful' and play Top Trumps all day, the fact is that there will always be a higher-specced laptop than Apple can provide -- but there isn't yet an Apple quality laptop that an OEM can manufacture.

That's why it's silly comparing specs and saying 'the Windows machine is cheaper', because as you well said, a Windows machine that adheres to Apple's specification doesn't exist. Both have merits and flaws in equal measure; so instead of saying one's better than the other, shall we appreciate each one for what it is?

 

[thekeyring]

Noooooo This sucks.
Ya hear that, Apple? Stop dropping support for your OSs after 1 year and lagging behind on hardware updates!

In Apple's defense, Mavericks (and Yosemite) support Macs going back to 2009, and some even going back to 2007.

In fact, iOS 8 works on the iPhone 4S - released in 2011 - which is hardly '1 year ago'.

 

[MH01]

Not surprising as Apple hasn't released any new PCs and the Wintel space is upgrading from XP to 7/8.

Are you suggesting that the boost came from corporate sector updating their hardware, as they moved onto windows 7 due to XP support ending in April this year?

The consumer does not need a new PC to run windows 7 over XP.

One could argue the same for Apple, as their OS updates force users to update their hardware if they want the most current OS.

I suspect its down to Apple not releasing new hardware, and modern PCs are so fast, people keep them longer these days.

 

[tdale]

In Apple's defense, Mavericks (and Yosemite) support Macs going back to 2009, and some even going back to 2007.

In fact, iOS 8 works on the iPhone 4S - released in 2011 - which is hardly '1 year ago'.

I inherited a late 2007 iMac, 2GHz, 20 inch, 120GB HDD. It has Mavericks on it, and it will take Yosemite. Took it to 4GB RAM and it runs very well for what it is.

 

[thekeyring]

I inherited a late 2007 iMac, 2GHz, 20 inch, 120GB HDD. It has Mavericks on it, and it will take Yosemite. Took it to 4GB RAM and it runs very well for what it is.

Exactly! I think the only frustrating thing is that traditional hard drives can slow your Mac down. My MacBook Pro from 2012 can be really slow when it comes to launching apps or booting up, but I'm kind of assuming a switch to a Mac with an SSD would solve this.

 

[tdale]

Exactly! I think the only frustrating thing is that traditional hard drives can slow your Mac down. My MacBook Pro from 2012 can be really slow when it comes to launching apps or booting up, but I'm kind of assuming a switch to a Mac with an SSD would solve this.

My old iMac that I inherited was quite snappy compared even to my top end Win 7 gaming rig to boot up. Although my new rMBP at 12 seconds to boot, including Safari auto starting and online is pretty damn impressive. Unsure if this old thing will take SSD. I don't use it , its in my daughters room. If I sold it, I'd be tempted to get an SSD Mini that would be a nice compromise.

 

[TallManNY]

I don't get how Lenovo is doing this good, I work with these machines all day. They are garbage, literally the worst build quality and model variations, spec wise they don't perform as they should.
I would rather have Acer or Asus, terrible, terrible laptops/desktops.

Really? Are we talking about the laptops that are the heir to the IBM Thinkpad?!?! Because it would be sad if those aren't high quality anymore.

I've got an HP Laptop at work and it is pretty darn crappy. But it was fairly cheap. When I buy another one, I will insist on something better. Lenovo thinkpad would be one that would be on my list.

 

[maflynn]

Not surprising, Lenovo is a good maker and has the enterprise sector along with the consumer sector. I am surprised that it took them this long to over take apple.

Apple's 4Q numbers aren't looking all that good, and the lack of broadwell isn't going to help them

 

[TallManNY]

Post PC

When you look at the computing power of the modern smartphones and look at the numbers they sell in compared to these PC numbers, we can see how we are moving to a post PC world.

I can mirror my iPhone to a large screen through Apple TV. And I can output my Blackberry through its HDMI port (and also connect a mouse and keyboard to the USB port). So they are pushing up and threatening my PC for some uses.

 

[tdale]

Really? Are we talking about the laptops that are the heir to the IBM Thinkpad?!?! Because it would be sad if those aren't high quality anymore.

I've got an HP Laptop at work and it is pretty darn crappy. But it was fairly cheap. When I buy another one, I will insist on something better. Lenovo thinkpad would be one that would be on my list.

My workplace uses about 5000 Lenovos. I don't see any issues with them they just work.

 

[Tiger8]

Yeah, once someone genetically alters humans so that touch PCs will actually be useable. "I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed." << Whoever can identify the source of that quote wins.

Why do we need to alter human genetics? You're not supposed to be working on the touch screen all time, you still use your keyboard and your mouse, but when you need to highlight something, you can drag your finger over it. When you need to zoom in, you can pinch in, rather than go to the Zoom scroll bar, things like that.

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Past history is showing us the opposite. Apples profits are higher then competitors, even though they have more market share. Apple still has marketshare in the $1K and above category, which again has much higher profit margin.

Three categories for success in retail, and they are all equally important:
1. Volume
2. Revenue
3. Market Share

A massive food company laid off hundreds of management employees after their revenue and volume went up 8 and 9% respectively. Why? It's because the market grew 13%, which really means that their market share shrunk.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

So do your 2001 iMacs run latest OSX??

You massively misinterpreted my post. Why are you so sensitive. It has zero to do with Macs, but pointing out a lot of Windows enterprise and edu organizations were using older machines built for XP. Now that XP is officially unsupported they are "forced" to upgrade their computers or they will be vulnerable to attack. We already saw this with the ATM hacking in early spring. That equals a lot of PC sales in one fell swoop.

 

[kodos]

Wow, this thread has grown since I last posted . I cannot find it right now, but the person who said that their interpretation of my comment about Apple losing its way "once more", is correct - I was alluding to the dark days after Steve's first ouster.

As for those who are "angry" in this thread about the Surface Pro 3. I'm sorry about the fact that someone's choice in computer makes you angry. It's a puzzling thing I've encountered from PC users when I first switched to Macs in 2007, and I have gotten since switching back to a PC in 2013. I'll continue to choose the best tool for my particular needs whether it has a Apple Logo, a Windows Logo, or even ... an Android (though I see little interesting in that platform at the moment).

And, the Surface Pro 3 is the most coveted device I've held since getting my original Macbook Air. More oohs and ahhs from people than anything else I've owned.

But my point isn't that SP3 is the awesomest thing ever. My point is that if you look around, there is actually a fair number of good, competitive, high quality PCs today, something I couldn't have said back in 2007.

In Ultrabooks (Lenovo, Samsung, etc.) there are a lot of really competitive devices. The Yoga was another really interesting device when I was investigating a replacement for my Macbook. There are a lot of situations where a tablet'ish screen is advantageous for reviewing materials with clients, or even having multitouch is a good idea.

Build quality on these new waves of Ultrabooks and PCs are pretty good. However, they are priced almost identically (if not more at times!) to Macs. Though, I think they may at times have superior screens to Macs - now, when in the history of computing can such a painful thing be said?

Of course Windows doesn't have nearly as nice of a scaling system as OS X. Multiple monitors and multiple DPIs in particular are frustrating compared to OS X.

Now, if someone cannot see my critiques of each ecosystem as not being particularly biased, I cannot help that. The rabid Microsoft, Apple, or Google cheerleaders should take critique at face value. You should see my posts against some of the issues on the SP3 and Microsoft Customer Support on the Surface Forum I visit. You'd think I was the world's biggest Apple cheerleader

Taking valid criticism is a healthy thing to make product better. And when I spend > $1500 on a computer, I want it to be a REALLY good product! Sadly, right now - nothing in Apple's stable pushes the cost/benefit ratio their way for my needs.

I...wish I didn't agree with you. Because I really thought windows 8 was a sloppy mess at first and vowed to never even bother looking at that ugly sorry excuse for an operating system ever again.

...then the surface pro 3 came out. Wow. I'm a hell of a lot more impressed than I thought I would be. I actually caught myself holding my iPad while watching a video review of the surface pro 3 getting a little jealous. Jealous! When the hell does that ever happen? I've been so content with my iPad I barely ever even use my MacBook. But that thing...it seems like if your goal is to have one device that does everything, it's a pretty damn good solution. I can't tell you how annoying it is just trying to reply to youtube comments on an iPad. Or browse certain sites and all the tabs keep refreshing and deleting your form data. It's getting old.

But, I am still happy with my iPad. Just saying. The surface pro 3 is a strong competitor and if I wasn't so attached to my pad, I would easily have snatched a surface for myself

 

[MarkusL]

Other thing with the PC market is that many people really dont need a "computer" to do things and get a living and are best served by the combo smartphone-tablet.

As evidenced by the terrible growth for HP, Dell, Lenovo and Toshiba from 2Q13 to 2Q14?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I will say this however, for all the talk about how "expensive" Macbooks are, try pricing a competitive PC, they are all as expensive or *more* expensive. I just don't understand the constant "common knowledge" that Macs are more expensive. Try buying a Lenovo or Samsung Ultrabook - and tell me what it costs compared to a Macbook.

Though, I will say that the Macbooks (Air at least) are falling way behind in display quality / tech.

Naturally a thin, long better life, high-DPI display, SSD, and "iconic" laptop is going to be expensive, but a $400 laptop can do everything equally as well for most consumers, who aren't about to spend an extra $800 for a Facebook machine.