Lenovo Passes Apple in U.S. PC Shipments As Worldwide Market Flatlines

[iOSaddict]

Sure. I'd still pick a Macbook over a PC anyday.

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Congratulations to Lenovo, well deserved. They cater to multiple sectors of the market and their high end products are very impressive. And so does Dell, and so does HP.

And btw, touch on a laptop grows on you. No, you don't replace your keyboard and mouse, and you still use them heavily, but for certain things that you wish you can touch the screen, now you can.

Apple will add touch to its laptops and desktops in 2017, call it touchulationary or something like that, and then we all will be all over it saying how it makes so much sense

Well then don't buy a mac. Easy breezy.

 

[CFreymarc]

How the hell is HP number one? I understand Lenovo doing well and can even see why dell is but HP is a horribly messy company flailing around trying to get back on track and their products are not great at all.

HP is #1 the same way GM is #1, sheer volume, low price and lack of a concern for quality when it hinders sales. Microsoft and Ford did the same thing til their respective markets got wise on quality.

 

[tdale]

Sorry just realized you responded to my other questions.

No worries



No. I'm not going to Google it. You said they are not as fast, so you have to provide the proof. I don't need to go searching for evidence to prove you right. You need to provide the evidence. If you can't, just say so.

I will find a link later off out shortly




Apple can only charge what the market will bear. This is economics 101. The only other explanation for their "substantially more profits" is that they've brainwashed multi-millions of people across the world. If you believe that Apple is skilled in mind control, I have a bridge to sell you. Except the bridge doesn't exist. And I'm telling you that it doesn't exist, but you're still going to buy the bridge from me.

Cost plus margin differs from what the market will bear. Brainwashed is a strong word, but there is no doubt they have marketed very well, creating loyalty. So they can charge what the market will bear rather than cost plus margin. Having said that iPhones are 40% margin, going against what I just said but that is high, supported by the profits they make compared to other manufacture phones of similar design/spec



You did not read the thread. Apple does not have less sales. Lenovo had more sales than Apple. There's a difference. And it's not a subtle one.

So Lenovo became more popular or Apple became less popular?



But you're wrong. Apple has not lost popularity. Apple is selling more product than they EVER have in the history of their company. Perspective is important, I agree. So how come you're not looking at it from a perspective point of view? The people who have lost perspective are the ones who claim that Apple is losing popularity.

If company A sold 5% more thats great, more popular. If the market overall rose 10% then the relative popularity of the company declined. The market may have a need to sell x volume, so all participants should also sell the same percentage change.




It's a poor analogy, but you need to be able to think outside the box. Whoever said that made a horrible analogy, but his/her point was that cheaper products will always have more marketshare than more expensive ones if their quality is relatively the same. This is business 101.

I agree. Apple participates in the top end consumer market hence a low global share, but that hasn't changed this year

However, companies are in it for profit. I know the common theme around here is that Google (or any other company) doesn't care about profit and is looking out for mankind, but that's not true. Apple, Google Samsung, HTC Motorola, they're all here for profit. Period. If you price your products cheaper, you're going to have a bigger marketshare. But, the point that you're missing (or just flat out refuse to grasp) is that Apple SIMPLY cannot overcharge customers and expect them to keep buying their product. It doesn't work like that. Economics doesn't work like that. Business doesn't work like that. If you think it does, go ahead and start a business and purposely overcharge your customers and see how long you last.

Overcharge. What the market will bear. Apple used to make more profits from smartphone than everyone else put together, yet they sold less smartphones. Either they are charging a higher margin, or the others are too inefficient. Both apply IMO. They have loyalty, no other manufacturer has loyalty, so they charge what the market will bear, and as stated here where comments accrue re the cost of Apple products, many consumers do as you suggest, refuse to buy the product. But the margins attained clearly exceed those lost sales. Great business model. Does Apple overcharge? Yes, cos they can get away with it, and kudos to them for creating that loyalty. They charge what most of the market will bear, and are happy profit wise to lose some sales as some users will not bear it.

.
And no I am not missing your points or refusing to grasp them. Thats is your assumption given you've decided you are correct.

 

[CFreymarc]

Sure. I'd still pick a Macbook over a PC anyday.

Same here. With computer hardware, you get back what you put into it almost ten fold. Get cheap on hardware, your labor to do a job skyrockets. Seen this way too many times with enterprise deployments. If I need PC or even Linux, I have it running on my Mac Pro in emulation.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

HP is #1 the same way GM is #1, sheer volume, low price and lack of a concern for quality when it hinders sales. Microsoft and Ford did the same thing til their respective markets got wise on quality.

They also have military contracts. They took over what was the NMCI contracts for the US Marines. Little bit of their numbers is probably some tech refreshes for the Marine Units. As when they took over from NMCI they started to rip out the Dells prior contract holders put in place. Decent amount of consistent sales this gets them I'd wager.

 

[mabhatter]

How the hell is HP number one? I understand Lenovo doing well and can even see why dell is but HP is a horribly messy company flailing around trying to get back on track and their products are not great at all.

They sell 100 unit lots at a time on corporate contracts. The Corporate space is staggeringly massive of little bosses on little desks all in a row. But those are mostly upgrade churn.. Minimum specs, locked down to a handful of Admin provided apps they might as well be typewriters there is no VALUE in SOFTWARE for all those unit sales.

 

[driphone]

Cool, I forgot about the iPad being a computer and relevant to this discussion. Thanks for reminding us.

Define "computer".

 

[ImperialX]

My purchasing is just waiting on Skylake for the desktop. I bought a refurbished Haswell Retina Macbook Pro in the meantime.

Did your MacBook finally die?

 

[minimo3]

I've been using thinkpads exclusively since the mid 90s and currently have a w530 workstation class model. The last great thinkpad was the T600/T40. Since then they have gotten progressively worse. I dread getting a new laptop nowadays. I wish they would let us pick MacBooks instead.

 

[WAPilot]

Spec Bumb NEEDED!

Apple is losing share because their computers need a spec bump and bad. MacBook Pro is long overdue along with the iMac. I've been putting off a new MacBook Pro for about 3 months now and I'm tired of waiting so I'm ordering a Lenovo - people need speed and power to run a lot of these new applications and Apple is falling behind - no one is going to buy a MacBook Pro when it's pushing over a year since their last update.

They also need to bring back the 17" MacBook Pro - that was a BIG mistake.

 

[BJonson]

The bottom line with apple computers is they are not very good. The hardware is not that great despite what some think. It is flashy that is for sure but come on now. You have to jump through so many hoops to upgrade an imac or an apple laptop. Things like hard drives need to be easily accessible and apple refuses to do that. I should not have to take a razor blade to my imac to swap ram or hard drives in it and people realize that. Most of the reason people buy apple is for OS X, not the hardware. Why do you think the hackintosh community is so large. If you don't need os X than you are actually free, Free to buy any type of hardware you want and Lenovo is making hardware of every flavor these days. Just look at the Yoga. They make one that looks just like a macbook and one that looks like a thinkpad. There is a lot of choices there. Frankly I'm amazed at how well apple has done with the way they treat their fan base with these slap in the face upgrades all year. Seriously, they have only releases slow devices all year long with the exception of the .1ghz upgrade to the base macbook air. LOL. You know what is funnier about it all? I have a G5 and a thinkpad from the same timeframe sitting here and I can do more on that thinkpad than on the G5 with apples own software. My old thinkpad runs windows 7 64 bit with itunes, airport software, safari, quicktime etc and I can sync my iphone to it while my G5 can't. That sucks.

On top of everthing on Thinkpads everything is upgradeable including the CPU. I have a fleet of thinkpad W530s W520s and T520s and all the parts are interchangeable mostly and cheap to buy. I can replace the screens for $49 each. Brand new samsung displays. I can upgrade the dvd drives to blueray for $59. I have 32gb of ram in them and they have MSATA slots and 2 drive bays for hard drives so I can run 3 SSDs in these things. They are fantastic performers too and they are cheap as hell. I can get these for under $1,000. They will last forever and you can be sure they will run every version of windows for the next 20yrs. So if you are curious as to why Lenovo makes better computers that is why. Best apple laptop ever made was the G3 Pismo. Know why? Removable battery, upgradeable DVD drive, replaceable CPU, easly upgraded and replaceable screen, etc. Made of plastic and it was black.

They key to apples success is this. Release one computer every so often. That makes them hold their value very long. It makes it easy to iron out the bugs. It makes it easy to determine their used value and it makes it easy for people to know about the systems and how they function. That is why they are successful but that has a downside and that is choices. If you don't like their phone or their laptops but need os x you are bummed and waiting for their upgrades, hoping and praying for the computer or phone you want and that sucks. For some this is worth it because of OS X because its the best OS out there by a long shot but that might change without touch. Apple needs to figure out how to merge ipads and laptops together and Microsoft has already done that. Once microsoft works out all the bugs its up to apple to play catch up because there won't be any point in owning an ipad and an apple laptop or desktop once technology makes it pointless and that is already happening with Haswell and when Broadwell gets here it will change even more. Unless apple makes some big advancements in computing ergonomics expect this decline to increase for apple.

 

[brdeveloper]

What's your Internet bandwith?

That isn't enough even for browsing with a 100Mbps bandwidth, let alone more complex tasks...

And did you get an upgraded screen, upgraded chassis, a battery that lasts for half a day? A new everything? Is the RAM even DDR3?

No.

So you wasted $145 on an old machine, and made your mom's next laptop $994 instead of $849... congrats.

Well, if you have a constant 100Mbps bandwidth, you're a winner. Here in Brazil there are 100Mbps data plans, but I doubt you could watch YouTube 1080p stuff without pausing for a couple of minutes. Then, perhaps, you'd be allowed to watch something without stuttering. Why would she need run more complex tasks? Well she would potentially do, but that's not the case and also that's not the case for most home uses. Wi-Fi 802.11g (which is slower than 100Mbps, but faster than most internet data plans if you think on quality of service) is ok and it will be ok for a couple or even more years.

Regarding your other points:
- DDR3: a lot of Mac users install non-matched RAM modules, so they perform pretty much like DDR2 ones without any perceptible problems unless for gaming on integrated graphics adapters, perhaps.
- Battery: why would you presume that everyone needs the very latest battery-saving technology? Ok, it's good having a laptop which its battery lasts about a day long, but is it a very good reason to drop your good old and functioning hardware?

I think it's not. I'm keeping my MacMini 2010 maxed out until it breaks since it's probably a better performer than a base 2012 Mini and probably better than a 2014-2015 base Mini for 90% of my daily tasks. This drop-everything-and-buy-everything-new approach is insane. It's like buying a new car every year just for getting iOS syncing or some new "killer feature".

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I've been using thinkpads exclusively since the mid 90s and currently have a w530 workstation class model. The last great thinkpad was the T600/T40. Since then they have gotten progressively worse. I dread getting a new laptop nowadays. I wish they would let us pick MacBooks instead.

Besides weight and battery life, what annoys you on the w530? It's a mobile monster if you think on processing power, RAM upgradeability (you can load up to 32GB at once, twice the higher-end Macbook). You also have Quadro GPUs which has tons of CUDA cores waiting for tons of calculations.

 

[AppleHater]

Never understood the logic of simply comparing shipped numbers. So, $300 ghetto PC is equal to the top of the line MacPro? I'm sure the profit numbers among them will paint a very different picture.

 

[5232152]

Your move, Apple.

It better be good and it better be fast.

 

[PocketSand11]

Developers make money on people using their software. If people buy their software it doesn't matter how much marketshare a company has.

If Google sells 25 trillion chromebooks but only 5 chromebook owners purchase Angry Birds, the developers aren't making much money.

If Apple sells 50 macbooks and 50 macbooks owners purchase Angry Birds, the developers made more money than they did on Google. Developers go where they can make money.

As far as I know, developers usually specialize in one platform, and the software company hires different developers for different platforms. (Platform) developers are going to want higher demand for (platform) programming so their talent is worth more.

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Never understood the logic of simply comparing shipped numbers. So, $300 ghetto PC is equal to the top of the line MacPro? I'm sure the profit numbers among them will paint a very different picture.

Yeah, if you're asking for profit and not market share. But this article is about market share.

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Apple is losing share because their computers need a spec bump and bad. MacBook Pro is long overdue along with the iMac. I've been putting off a new MacBook Pro for about 3 months now and I'm tired of waiting so I'm ordering a Lenovo - people need speed and power to run a lot of these new applications and Apple is falling behind - no one is going to buy a MacBook Pro when it's pushing over a year since their last update.

They also need to bring back the 17" MacBook Pro - that was a BIG mistake.

Don't forget the Mac Mini! It's like Apple forgot about it too.

 

[pragmatous]

This isn't about market share this is about PC shipments.

I did not expect this,

I would have expected Apple's marketshare in PCs to increase

 

[PocketSand11]

Apple will add touch to its laptops and desktops in 2017, call it touchulationary or something like that, and then we all will be all over it saying how it makes so much sense

Yeah, once someone genetically alters humans so that touch PCs will actually be useable. "I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed." << Whoever can identify the source of that quote wins.

 

[pragmatous]

So as you get older things like "processing power, Ram upgradeability, and blah blah blah" become less important. Things like weight and battery life become more important as you travel and get out of the house.

Besides weight and battery life, what annoys you on the w530? It's a mobile monster if you think on processing power, RAM upgradeability (you can load up to 32GB at once, twice the higher-end Macbook). You also have Quadro GPUs which has tons of CUDA cores waiting for tons of calculations.

 

[BJonson]

yeah, once someone genetically alters humans so that touch pcs will actually be useable. "i am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed." << whoever can identify the source of that quote wins.

khaaaaaaaaaaaan!

 

[kis]

For the first time in years, I have no interest in buying an Apple machine. I got a Surface Pro 3, after having a Surface Pro 2 (sold my 15" Retina Macbook Pro) which is a really great machine, though not without lots of the typical Microsoft foibles.

Not sure how you could switch from a 15" screen to a 10" one - but as for W8: my gosh it's fugly. Since they've introduced it at work, two things have happened:

1. I became drastically less productive (and that goes for my co-workers as well)

2. I've started to bring my 15" rMBP to work every day because I simply can't stand that teletubby mess WP8 is.

I agree, WP8 might be good on hybrid devices like the Surface Pro (as it's a hybrid OS), but it's awful on normal PCs.

 

[numlock]

Quality, not quantity.

well its certainly one or the other. just what suits the agenda.

Marketshare luckily isn't reflective of quality. HP and Lenovo both churn out the cheapest crap they can, with failure rates (overheating for HPs, everything else for the Lenovos) unparalleled in the industry.

It's a shame that parents and consumers simply see the price tag and buy solely on that. Nonetheless, people who buy HP certainly don't buy them again -- different story for Apple.

i think the real shame is when apple "tries" to offer something for those cost conscious its even more exorbitant than their previous offering see 5c and new imac.

Not surprising as Apple hasn't released any new PCs and the Wintel space is upgrading from XP to 7/8.

maybe they should then. the lack of updates for the mini can be explained how?

 

[Oletros]

The MODEL of i7. Unless you're saying an i7 is an i7, in which case you're not qualified to argue about hardware.

And exactly what model of i7 is made just for Apple?

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Every two years Intel changes its cup line where you need a new motherboard and ram. Always been that way

And that doesn't have anything to do with upgrading HD, RAM or GPU

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If you have specific needs for a machine, then you build a machine for those specific needs (GPU, CPU, RAM, etc...), if the machine is outdated, or you have another needs, then the best is to start with another machine.

Wrong

 

[PocketSand11]

"Upgrading" a PC is one of those things that got a taboo with enough push from PC "enthusiasts", salesmen, hardware manufacturers, etc...

In real therms, upgrading a single part on a system, is just stupid and economically unworthy.

If you want more performance, you can't get it just by upgrading a CPU, or RAM, or whatever. You can only get it by upgrade the WHOLE machine.

I upgraded the GPU in my Mac Pro. It was an ATI 2600 from 2008, and now, it's a NVIDIA GTX 650Ti Boost, straight from Fry's, not the Apple-branded version. Sure my new GPU has a really loser-ish name, but it's at least 10X as fast. Most Mac users miss out on these new GPUs that are extremely powerful for the price. The ATI couldn't run Mountain Lion without everything jittering for some reason, plus it sounded like a lawnmower.

What do you want me to do, buy a new Mac Pro? I bought this 2008 machine in 2012 because I didn't want to spend the insane amount of money for a new one. Buy a new iMac? Pssh, don't want a non-detachable screen, low power:cost ratio, non-replaceable hard drive, only 1 hard drive, lack of ports...

 

[Oletros]

No?

Does your SSD gets it's full performance on that SATA1/SATA2?

NO! It doesn't.

It's wasted money. Save the $ and buy a PCIex mac with SSD.

Albeit SSD's are an exception, because they are one of those game changers.




As I said...



Yeah, because of things.

Yeah, because of things.
Yeah, because of things.

 

[linuxcooldude]

It's not, but I want to point out that the claim that everything Apple releases is 'high quality, premium' product is not true, not recently at least. Apple, just like all other companies on that list, have their ups and downs.

We can't keep playing the quality card to justify Apple's shrinking market share.

Past history is showing us the opposite. Apples profits are higher then competitors, even though they have more market share. Apple still has marketshare in the $1K and above category, which again has much higher profit margin.