Lenovo X1 Extreme

[LindsayD]

I undervolted to -160mV. Installed SolidWorks CAD software and the noisy fan kicked in even the system profile stated that the CPU load was 1%. The X1 Yoga Gen 3 and Yoga C930 did not have such loud noise when running the same program. rMBP 2014 15" also did not have any noise issue. I could try to do a thermal repaste but the result may be the same. I guess I may have to give up on the X1E :-(

When you say the fan kicked in, what do you mean exactly - was it running all the time you were using the programme, or just some of the time, or just occasionally?

Regarding your questions about the undervolt not 'sticking' there are loads of guides out there about how to set a process for Throttlestop so it automatically runs on startup.

Out of interest what was the temperature saving from your undervolt (I presume you tested both before and after).

 

[maflynn]

I undervolted to -160mV. Installed SolidWorks CAD software and the noisy fan kicked in even the system profile stated that the CPU load was 1%. The X1 Yoga Gen 3 and Yoga C930 did not have such loud noise when running the same program. rMBP 2014 15" also did not have any noise issue. I could try to do a thermal repaste but the result may be the same. I guess I may have to give up on the X1E :-(

Why are you surprised, you owned one before and the fans were an annoyance then. The recent bios changes only modified the fan profile, the fact is that the Coffee Lake processors in the laptop produce a lot of heat. You're using an intensive program, why are you surprised that the fans

And probably forget about waiting for the X1E Gen2

Its been said before, you have unrealistic expectations of wanting a performance machine that runs absolutely silent, that will not happen.

 

[lcseds]

I undervolted to -160mV. Installed SolidWorks CAD software and the noisy fan kicked in even the system profile stated that the CPU load was 1%. The X1 Yoga Gen 3 and Yoga C930 did not have such loud noise when running the same program. rMBP 2014 15" also did not have any noise issue. I could try to do a thermal repaste but the result may be the same. I guess I may have to give up on the X1E :-(

Forget the fancy undervolting, throttle stop, standing on one foot, etc. A notebook has to be acceptable to you out of the box. In every way.

Then you tinker

 

[hajime]

When you say the fan kicked in, what do you mean exactly - was it running all the time you were using the programme, or just some of the time, or just occasionally?

Regarding your questions about the undervolt not 'sticking' there are loads of guides out there about how to set a process for Throttlestop so it automatically runs on startup.

Out of interest what was the temperature saving from your undervolt (I presume you tested both before and after).

While doing the same thing, yesterday it was running often. Today just occasionally for a burst of about 3 seconds.

Which method do you want me to use to test the temperature?

 

[LindsayD]

While doing the same thing, yesterday it was running often. Today just occasionally for a burst of about 3 seconds.

Which method do you want me to use to test the temperature?

Perhaps yesterday the computer was doing something in the background which caused the fans to kick off. Today it sounds normal.

Before undervolting it's wise to run a simple and quick benchmark (not a stress test) to determine base idle temperature. There is a test like this built into XTU (and probably Throttlestop, but I haven't used it). Do the same after undervolting (again, with no other applications running) to determine the temperature saving. If you're seeing a minimal saving (a couple of degrees) then there could be an issue with thermal paste. You've already undervolted but it's easy enough to zero it and repeat the exercise with the temp markers.

I think you need to keep testing your computer doing the tasks you normally do, because temporary fan over-activity is pretty common and often connected to either behind the scenes updates or virus scans, or an errant process running.

 

[hajime]

Perhaps yesterday the computer was doing something in the background which caused the fans to kick off. Today it sounds normal.

Before undervolting it's wise to run a simple and quick benchmark (not a stress test) to determine base idle temperature. There is a test like this built into XTU (and probably Throttlestop, but I haven't used it). Do the same after undervolting (again, with no other applications running) to determine the temperature saving. If you're seeing a minimal saving (a couple of degrees) then there could be an issue with thermal paste. You've already undervolted but it's easy enough to zero it and repeat the exercise with the temp markers.

I think you need to keep testing your computer doing the tasks you normally do, because temporary fan over-activity is pretty common and often connected to either behind the scenes updates or virus scans, or an errant process running.

The laptop was connected to the AC adapter but today it is on battery. It is dead silent. I need more testing.

I have a very strange experience with this laptop. Very often, the programs (e.g. Photoshop, SolidWorks) quitted automatically in the middle of an operation without error message. Know what is wrong? This has happened even the laptop is not being undervolted.

 

[LindsayD]

The laptop was connected to the AC adapter but today it is on battery. It is dead silent. I need more testing.

I have a very strange experience with this laptop. Very often, the programs (e.g. Photoshop, SolidWorks) quitted automatically in the middle of an operation without error message. Know what is wrong? This has happened even the laptop is not being undervolted.

It's normal for fans to be more active when on AC power.

I've occasionally had Lightroom or ON1 quit for no reason on my desktop computer, but the problem went away on its own after a couple of days - I had no idea what caused it. Have you done the most recent Windows and driver updates - with the latest GPU driver from the manufacturer site (Windows doesn't do the GPU updates automatically).

Edit: how is the electrical hissing noise you were experiencing - is that still bothering you?

 

[hajime]

It's normal for fans to be more active when on AC power.

I've occasionally had Lightroom or ON1 quit for no reason on my desktop computer, but the problem went away on its own after a couple of days - I had no idea what caused it. Have you done the most recent Windows and driver updates - with the latest GPU driver from the manufacturer site (Windows doesn't do the GPU updates automatically).

Edit: how is the electrical hissing noise you were experiencing - is that still bothering you?

Why it is normal for fans to be more active when on AC power?

No hissing noise today and yesterday. How come? So even a machine has coil while, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't? On my previous X1E, never had coil while.

A new strange issue: Even at max brightness, when I plugged the AC adapter to the X1E, the screen became dimmer. When I unplugged it, the screen became brighter. Plugging the AC adapter back to the laptop dimmed the screen again. Never experienced anything like this. Do you guys/ladies have this issue? Even on my previous X1E, did not have this issue.

 

[LindsayD]

Why it is normal for fans to be more active when on AC power?

No hissing noise today and yesterday. How come? So even a machine has coil while, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't? On my previous X1E, never had coil while.

A new strange issue: Even at max brightness, when I plugged the AC adapter to the X1E, the screen became dimmer. When I unplugged it, the screen became brighter. Plugging the AC adapter back to the laptop dimmed the screen again. Never experienced anything like this. Do you guys/ladies have this issue? Even on my previous X1E, did not have this issue.

Charging generates heat which in turn activates the fans.

It sounds like your laptop is trying to get the most out of the charging time by dimming the screen. Have a look in your Power options as there should be a setting to control that. There also may be a BIOS setting for screen brightness when on AC.

 

[c0ppo]

What did you find out about it that is a mess ? I’ve checked the Lenovo forum site and no word on any issues reported.

There was a post on reddit (p1), and one thread on lenovo forums. Apparently after installing your computer would go in loop for few times while booting up, small error would occur, and after that you would boot up, but still be on 1.19.

If you need additional info, I could provide it tomorrow when I check my history on my work PC.

 

[Never mind]

There was a post on reddit (p1), and one thread on lenovo forums. Apparently after installing your computer would go in loop for few times while booting up, small error would occur, and after that you would boot up, but still be on 1.19.

If you need additional info, I could provide it tomorrow when I check my history on my work PC.

Many thanks. I see I can update to the new bios but I will hold back at this point. Waiting for more guinea pigs to try it out first.

 

[hajime]

Today the computer is very quiet so I like it. However, on this 2nd X1E, it has happened almost 10 times that programs like Photoshop and SolidWorks quitted by themselves with no error message even I don't have Throttlestop running. Anybody has this experience? This did not happen on my first X1E. I asked Lenovo tech support but they have no idea. Could it be RAM instability?

 

[hajime]

Perhaps yesterday the computer was doing something in the background which caused the fans to kick off. Today it sounds normal.

Before undervolting it's wise to run a simple and quick benchmark (not a stress test) to determine base idle temperature. There is a test like this built into XTU (and probably Throttlestop, but I haven't used it). Do the same after undervolting (again, with no other applications running) to determine the temperature saving. If you're seeing a minimal saving (a couple of degrees) then there could be an issue with thermal paste. You've already undervolted but it's easy enough to zero it and repeat the exercise with the temp markers.

I think you need to keep testing your computer doing the tasks you normally do, because temporary fan over-activity is pretty common and often connected to either behind the scenes updates or virus scans, or an errant process running.

I just did the AIDA64 CPU stress test for 5 minutes and observed the CPU temperature during the test periods. Without undervolging, temperature ranged between 79c-81c. With -160mV undervolt, the temperature ranged between 78c-81c. So no change -> Poor thermal paste job?

When I did the CPU Hash, FP32 Ray-Trace and FPU Julia tests which lasted about 1-3 seconds, I heard continuous coil whine again. I guess at longer test, the fan noise became so loud that it covered the sound of coil whine. It seems that when the CPU is stressed, coil whine happens.

 

[LindsayD]

I just did the AIDA64 CPU stress test for 5 minutes and observed the CPU temperature during the test periods. Without undervolging, temperature ranged between 79c-81c. With -160mV undervolt, the temperature ranged between 78c-81c. So no change -> Poor thermal paste job?

When I did the CPU Hash, FP32 Ray-Trace and FPU Julia tests which lasted about 1-3 seconds, I heard continuous coil whine again. I guess at longer test, the fan noise became so loud that it covered the sound of coil whine. It seems that when the CPU is stressed, coil whine happens.

As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I don't measure base temperatures by using a stress test. I always start with a resting benchmark which is totally different (I presume Throttlestop will give you those figures just as XTU does - it is run as a quick 'benchmark' and also gives you a numerical performance score, this score should increase after undervolting). Under stress temperatures will increase more, even with undervolting, so the margin between pre and post undervolt is often narrower hence the baseline comparison test always being the first that I do.

Edit: the only other laptop I can think of which might meet your criteria is the Microsoft Surface Book 2 15". It has a great screen and a GTX 1060. The downside is that it's not upgradable so you'll be stuck at 16 gig RAM. It's not known for excessive fan noise, but tbh your X1E sounds OK in that regard and is of course upgradable in every way.

 

[hajime]

Hi, under Power in BIOS, I have the following by default:

Intel (R) SpeedStep technology [Enabled]
Mode for AC [Maximum Perfor]
Mode for Battery [Battery Optiml]
Adaptive Thermal Management
Scheme for AC [Maximize Perfn]
Scheme for Batery [Balanced]
CPU Power Management [Enabled]
Power On with AC Attach [Disabled]
8254 Timer Clock Gating [Auto]

Do I need to change any of these parameters?

Under Vintage->Hardware Settings->Smart Settings, I have already turned off Intelligent Cooling and then selected Cool and Quiet.

 

[maflynn]

Do I need to change any of these parameters?

You don't need to change all of them. Why go into the bios and monkey with the settings, you're not going to effect fan operation that much and making wholesale changes is a recipe for making matters worse overall.

I think you keep missing the point that you have a performance laptop and there's really no way to prevent the fans from spinning up.

 

[hajime]

I removed the mesh and tested the sound via benchmarking to hear the worst scenario. Sounded differently and high pitch sound disappeared. Just sounded like hair dryer. It was dead silent most of the time. Perhaps just ask them to change one without coil whine. Linux worked fine and machine was silent at least in the short period of time I tested. About 30 minutes.

I am drawn between X1E and Yoga C930. When X1E is quiet, it is better than C930 with fan noise. C930 is more portable but the unit I got had defective non-responsive screen. Also issues with connecting to projectors via usbc-hdmi adapter. Need to carry this adapter all the time. It is lighter and looks prettier.

 

[LindsayD]

"I am drawn between X1E and Yoga C930."



hajime, a few days ago (after I suggested you clarify your needs) you said that you absolutely had to have the fastest processor and GPU - the C930 doesn't seem to fit your requirements.

It sounds like your X1E is pretty quiet, in terms of fans. I'm guessing your issues lie with the electrical hiss (which also seems to have gone?) and programmes shutting down randomly. For the latter it might be worth a clean install of windows and ensuring all drivers are up to date, if you haven't already done that.

 

[hajime]

It is good to have the fastest cpu and gpu on the laptop but not necessary because I have a powerful workstation at home. A descent cpu and gpu are ok. Coil whine happen sometimes but not all the time.

Somebody suggested getting a lightweight laptop and login in to the powerful workstation at home. How does this work? What software do I need? By allowing external access even myself only, will I make the workstation open to hackers?
[doublepost=1557501620][/doublepost]

You don't need to change all of them. Why go into the bios and monkey with the settings, you're not going to effect fan operation that much and making wholesale changes is a recipe for making matters worse overall.

I think you keep missing the point that you have a performance laptop and there's really no way to prevent the fans from spinning up.

So we need to wait til 2021 when Intel releases 7mm cpu? Before that, we are stuck with powerful cpu/gpu in thin cases->noisy fan issue? Is 2021 the year we will see big changes?

 

[LindsayD]

It is good to have the fastest cpu and gpu on the laptop but not necessary because I have a powerful workstation at home. QUOTE]

If the X1E is working for you then it offers a good deal of power to fall back on, handy to have should your desktop ever go down. If you're still bothered by noise but don't need all the power offered by the X1E you have plenty of options to consider. If 'any' fan noise is the deal breaker then you have very few options and I would suggest a fanless machine (available in the SP6 lineup) but that means a smaller screen and fewer ports.

How much fan noise will you tolerate?

 

[maflynn]

So we need to wait til 2021 when Intel releases 7mm cpu?

We don't need wait - most of us are content with the laptops we purchased and/or realize when buying a performance class machine we understand that fans will be needed.

when Intel releases 7mm cpu?

10nm is not even out the door and now your going wait for 7nm based laptops? At this rate you'll never buy a laptop.

we are stuck with powerful cpu/gpu in thin cases->noisy fan issue?

I wouldn't say we're stuck, as most of us are happy with the performance and I disagree that that the fans are an issue. Early on, the X1E truley had some odd fan behavior but now thanks to various apps, bios updates the machine is operating as it should imo.

Is 2021 the year we will see big changes?

No

If fans are a real problem for you, then find a passively cooled machine. I don't understand why you're continuing to focus on higher end performance machines when you mentioned that you have a desktop for the heavy processing. You will never find a performance class machine that will not have fans.

 

[c0ppo]

@hajime you are asking for a laptop with 1.8kg or less, with 4K screen, powerful hardware, great battery life and with no fan noise, or at least that it is dead silent most of the time.

What you are searching is a . If you do find one, please, share it with us. But in my experience, those exist only in fairy tales (big company marketing), IRL we tend to make compromises, and choose our own poison.

X1E is such a great laptop that I wouldn't give mine up for any other laptop in the market, even if it is twice the price of X1E. Build quality, screen, power, keyboard, ports... All are excellent. What I find lacking is battery life and lousy speakers. But I tend to care more about powerful hardware, ports and keyboard, then I care about battery. So I've picked my poison, and I'm rather happy with my choice.

Best laptop I have owned/seen since 2012 (first rMBP).

 

[maflynn]

Best laptop I have owned/seen since 2012 (first rMBP).

Agreed, the X1E, has been the best laptop i've owned. In some ways its surpassed how I felt about my 2012 rMBP which I've long said it was the best laptop i've ever owned. The Thinkpad is surpassing that simply because the 2012 MBP wasn't really upgradeable, (ram no SSD yes) but the X1E has replaceable ram, ssd, and battery.

 

[hajime]

Lenovo also cares about customers. When the X1E was released last Fall, they did not include a screw for the 2nd SSD bay. After I raised the issue (and perhaps also others did), they now include a screw in the empty NVMe slot.

 

[SDColorado]

Lenovo also cares about customers. When the X1E was released last Fall, they did not include a screw for the 2nd SSD bay. After I raised the issue (and perhaps also others did), they now include a screw in the empty NVMe slot.

Actually some (most?) had a screw, some did not. Mine did. Not sure why the discrepancy. Factory where it was manufactured perhaps? But I am sure they care enough to include a screw