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I believe the problem in this case was that someone forgot to turn on the RDF.

Trying to be serious for a second, usually the Steve is a great speaker with great products and announcements. The great speaker was there this WWDC, but the great announcements were not.



I have to admit, even as a Mac Fanatic, I'm starting to become very disappointed with this WWDC, and that's even strictly from a software development standpoint. What with the lackluster Leopard announcements, the poor quality control of getting developers' hopes up with cool features and then yanking them off the web sites without any real explanation, and the half-arsed iPhone development "answer," I'm starting to see past Job's RDF.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see when the iPhone and Leopard come out. I'm still picking up a phone, of course, but I hope to see some better news in the three weeks leading up to it.
 
Leopard has a new Finder.
Leopard has Quick Look.
Leopard has a new iChat with Quick Look integration.
Leopard has a new Desktop (no, not the background pic).
Leopard has a new Dock with Stacks support.
Leopard has a unified interface across all apps.
Leopard has improved Speech Services.
Leopard is being highly optimized to run on smaller devices (iPhone, Apple TV).
Leopard is 64-bit, top-to-bottom.

Need I continue? Hardly a point release.
  • Quick Look - nice, but hardly revolutionary
  • iChat - in my opinion, the only part of leopard that's worthy of a whole new OS release
  • New Finder - Really - it seems like the old Finder to me, with a slightly modified Sidebar
  • New Desktop - I still don't get what's new other than the translucent menu bar (which, btw, should take a developer all of 2 sec to change opacity settings to implement).
  • New Dock - I give you this one, stacks look neat and I like the updated look
  • Unified Interface - The interface was already around in Tiger, it's just been added to more apps. I think it's ugly, btw - I was looking for something a bit more revolutionary
  • 64-Bit - A nice, under the hood improvement

So, what are we left with? Some nice under-the-hood improvements like core animation and 64-bit, Time Machine, and iChat. The rest seems and like some 'features' that may as well have been developed in a few months and added to a point release. Unless there are a lot of 'secret features' out there (and I'm not getting my hopes up), am I the only one wondering what Apple's OS developers have been up to for the past 2 1/2+ years?
 
lets go easy on apples coders. i myself am some what dissapointed in wwdc, and leading up to it, i didn't think it would be all that great knowing it was gona be all about leopard. (anyone could have figured that out) But anyways, i say we give them some time and then start complaining once we get it and realise that our last hopes of the "under the hood" stuff was just a load of bs :eek: but i've got my fingers crossed that they didn't show all the cool stuff and that a lot of it was under the hood....
 
  • Quick Look - nice, but hardly revolutionary
  • iChat - in my opinion, the only part of leopard that's worthy of a whole new OS release
  • New Finder - Really - it seems like the old Finder to me, with a slightly modified Sidebar
  • New Desktop - I still don't get what's new other than the translucent menu bar (which, btw, should take a developer all of 2 sec to change opacity settings to implement).
  • New Dock - I give you this one, stacks look neat and I like the updated look
  • Unified Interface - The interface was already around in Tiger, it's just been added to more apps. I think it's ugly, btw - I was looking for something a bit more revolutionary
  • 64-Bit - A nice, under the hood improvement

So, what are we left with? Some nice under-the-hood improvements like core animation and 64-bit, Time Machine, and iChat. The rest seems and like some 'features' that may as well have been developed in a few months and added to a point release. Unless there are a lot of 'secret features' out there (and I'm not getting my hopes up), am I the only one wondering what Apple's OS developers have been up to for the past 2 1/2+ years?

Why is "Core Animation" such a minor thing in your standpoint? Just looking at that one little app Steve used to demonstrate it (the real-time thing that mimicked the AppleTV opener) makers me think that there's going to be all sorts of cool possibilities for apps in the future.

And Spaces I think is really nice to finally have.

What else exactly were you expecting to see? It seems like they've made some pretty significant improvements to make the OS itself great and more powerful than it has been, and cleaned up issues like UI inconsistency.

Honestly, they've addressed pretty much every outstanding issue I had with OS X, and Core Animation and full 64-bit support make me more confident in its ability to handle more advanced stuff in the future.

I don't know what else Apple could have or needed to show about Leopard that would make it worth it.

I mean, they could have maybe introduced some crazy new 3D Finder or something, but I don't think we need something radical. Frankly just the Cover Flow and Quick Look stuff is a lot more useful to me than some radical new Finder.

Honestly, it seems like just as important a release as Tiger was, and frankly Spaces and Stacks and Time Machine and Quick Look and the new Finder (smart searches, cover flow browsing, etc.) are even bigger deals to me than Expose and Spotlight (the two biggest things I liked from Tiger).
 
Why was this removed? It seems like a really useful feature that lessens the distance between boot camp and parallels. The only reason I can think of would be that it's too much Windows integration, which seems sort of dumb.
 
  • Quick Look - nice, but hardly revolutionary
  • iChat - in my opinion, the only part of leopard that's worthy of a whole new OS release
  • New Finder - Really - it seems like the old Finder to me, with a slightly modified Sidebar
  • New Desktop - I still don't get what's new other than the translucent menu bar (which, btw, should take a developer all of 2 sec to change opacity settings to implement).
  • New Dock - I give you this one, stacks look neat and I like the updated look
  • Unified Interface - The interface was already around in Tiger, it's just been added to more apps. I think it's ugly, btw - I was looking for something a bit more revolutionary
  • 64-Bit - A nice, under the hood improvement

So, what are we left with? Some nice under-the-hood improvements like core animation and 64-bit, Time Machine, and iChat. The rest seems and like some 'features' that may as well have been developed in a few months and added to a point release. Unless there are a lot of 'secret features' out there (and I'm not getting my hopes up), am I the only one wondering what Apple's OS developers have been up to for the past 2 1/2+ years?


Having written this kind of stuff myself for various platforms, I can tell you..

1) QuickView is not revolutionary, but it's not trivial either. Those things opened up instantaneously. Granted it might not be as quick on machines with more reasonable amounts of memory (that demo machine had at least 4GB of memory of the 32/64 bit test would have been a waste of time.) It's a pluggable framework and it is the underpinnings of iChat theater. It's a lot of work to implement well.

2) iChat. Apart from UI updates (FINALLY tabbed chats! I suspect most of the work in here is around iChat Theater, building on QuickView, and fancy stuff like effects etc. Not groundbreaking, but a decent step up, and don't forget, the fun stuff is why average consumers (and lets not pretend ANY of us that frequent these forums is a good representative of one of those!) like macs. Of course there's stuff in there for that. He's targetting a market. He's VERY good at that you know. :)

3) Screen sharing, while not demoed, and not obvious in iChat, is building on Remote Desktop, but making it more integrated. It's a neat touch. It makes things easier. It's worthwhile.

4) New Desktop/Finder/Dock. How on earth can anyone on these forums have the first clue how hard / big that was to develop? It's not trivial just because it doesn't jump up and bite you with its "newness." The way the Finder, the desktop and the dock interact in OS X has been a collosal hack for a long time. If they've cleaned that up and made it easier to make them play nice with one another then it's a big thing. How often have you had the Dock ignore you coz Finder was busy deciding a network share had gone away? Annoying isn't it. Posts in other forums suggest responsiveness (the most meaningful performance measure for a UI) is way up in Finder. The fancy glass effects, well OK not the most important thing in the world. Odds are you can turn it off in any case if you hate it so much.

5) 64 Bit. This is huge. Mammoth. It's an absolutely massive task to make an entire OS 64 bit and still able to run 32 bit apps along side, and have one code base which supports 32 bit CPUs as well. Microsoft have how many developers? That didn't do it with Vista. You should give them credit for this. It's not immediately earth shattering, but then 16bit to 32bit was fairly meaningless to the average consumer when that happened too. After a while when people learn how to take advantage of it, big things can happen.

People have said that Leopard is small, it's not got a lot of big things in it like Tiger. But you are missing the point. An OS X release is two things. 1) The operating system and 2) A big bunch of Apple apps that come with it. They've done a TON of stuff on the OS side of things in Leopard. And they've actually made a lot of refinements in the apps side.

What I don't get is that people want something BIG from Leopard, but think about it for a moment. What Apple excels at is attention to detail. That's why you like your mac so much more than a windows machine. Because things work the way you would expect them to, not the way some software engineer happened to code them. A lot of little tweaks, refinements and enhancements can add up to a whole lot of "better" at the end of the day.

I agree, the actual Keynote was not up to usual standards (hey, at least he didn't have half of apple come up for 5 minutes at a time to talk about things like last year!) But Leopard, there I'm holding my judgement until they deliver it. I am optimistic. I think they've done a lot and I'm not going to pre-judge something I haven't even played around with yet.

be well

t
 
Having written this kind of stuff myself for various platforms, I can tell you..

1) QuickView is not revolutionary, but it's not trivial either. Those things opened up instantaneously. Granted it might not be as quick on machines with more reasonable amounts of memory (that demo machine had at least 4GB of memory of the 32/64 bit test would have been a waste of time.) It's a pluggable framework and it is the underpinnings of iChat theater. It's a lot of work to implement well.

2) iChat. Apart from UI updates (FINALLY tabbed chats! I suspect most of the work in here is around iChat Theater, building on QuickView, and fancy stuff like effects etc. Not groundbreaking, but a decent step up, and don't forget, the fun stuff is why average consumers (and lets not pretend ANY of us that frequent these forums is a good representative of one of those!) like macs. Of course there's stuff in there for that. He's targetting a market. He's VERY good at that you know. :)

3) Screen sharing, while not demoed, and not obvious in iChat, is building on Remote Desktop, but making it more integrated. It's a neat touch. It makes things easier. It's worthwhile.

4) New Desktop/Finder/Dock. How on earth can anyone on these forums have the first clue how hard / big that was to develop? It's not trivial just because it doesn't jump up and bite you with its "newness." The way the Finder, the desktop and the dock interact in OS X has been a collosal hack for a long time. If they've cleaned that up and made it easier to make them play nice with one another then it's a big thing. How often have you had the Dock ignore you coz Finder was busy deciding a network share had gone away? Annoying isn't it. Posts in other forums suggest responsiveness (the most meaningful performance measure for a UI) is way up in Finder. The fancy glass effects, well OK not the most important thing in the world. Odds are you can turn it off in any case if you hate it so much.

5) 64 Bit. This is huge. Mammoth. It's an absolutely massive task to make an entire OS 64 bit and still able to run 32 bit apps along side, and have one code base which supports 32 bit CPUs as well. Microsoft have how many developers? That didn't do it with Vista. You should give them credit for this. It's not immediately earth shattering, but then 16bit to 32bit was fairly meaningless to the average consumer when that happened too. After a while when people learn how to take advantage of it, big things can happen.

People have said that Leopard is small, it's not got a lot of big things in it like Tiger. But you are missing the point. An OS X release is two things. 1) The operating system and 2) A big bunch of Apple apps that come with it. They've done a TON of stuff on the OS side of things in Leopard. And they've actually made a lot of refinements in the apps side.

What I don't get is that people want something BIG from Leopard, but think about it for a moment. What Apple excels at is attention to detail. That's why you like your mac so much more than a windows machine. Because things work the way you would expect them to, not the way some software engineer happened to code them. A lot of little tweaks, refinements and enhancements can add up to a whole lot of "better" at the end of the day.

I agree, the actual Keynote was not up to usual standards (hey, at least he didn't have half of apple come up for 5 minutes at a time to talk about things like last year!) But Leopard, there I'm holding my judgement until they deliver it. I am optimistic. I think they've done a lot and I'm not going to pre-judge something I haven't even played around with yet.

be well

t

*APPLAUSE*

Exactly, you expressed this perfectly.

Honestly, I don't even care so much about the fancy googags; I like knowing they are doing stuff to improve the underlying framework, and pave the way for third parties to develop awesome new stuff.

The googags that ARE in Leopard, like the new Finder, Spaces, Time Machine, Stacks, etc. are things I can actually see myself using and improving my enjoyment of OS X. I'll take these things any day over some crazy radically new thing that I never actually end up using.

-Zadillo
 
Why is "Core Animation" such a minor thing in your standpoint? Just looking at that one little app Steve used to demonstrate it (the real-time thing that mimicked the AppleTV opener) makers me think that there's going to be all sorts of cool possibilities for apps in the future.

What else exactly were you expecting to see? It seems like they've made some pretty significant improvements to make the OS itself great and more powerful than it has been, and cleaned up issues like UI inconsistency.

Actually, Core animation is one of the bigger features I see in the OS. I agree - the demo was amazing. It opens up great possibilities for developers, but I just would have liked to have seen Apple make use of it in its own apps. like the Finder, FrontRow, etc. I, for one, would love to see a animated Finder.

I'm very happy with the under-the-hood stuff, along with Time Machine, Spaces, and the like. It just seems to me that the other apps. could have used a much larger update than what has been given. Take Safari, for instance. In terms of features, it's way behind Firefox, I.E., and even Camino. Sure, it has a faster rendering engine than Tiger's Safari, but app. features have been relatively untouched (besides for resizable text fields and a new find). RSS support is still very rudimentary, there's no bookmark/history searching, no bookmark separators, etc. I love the new search field, btw (I would have loved to see some animated features like this throughout the OS). Safari is a major part of the OS, and in my opinion, a new OS release should bring more than just a new search box and resizable text fields. But, that's just me ;)
 
Actually, Core animation is one of the bigger features I see in the OS. I agree - the demo was amazing. It opens up great possibilities for developers, but I just would have liked to have seen Apple make use of it in its own apps. like the Finder, FrontRow, etc. I, for one, would love to see a animated Finder.

I'm very happy with the under-the-hood stuff, along with Time Machine, Spaces, and the like. It just seems to me that the other apps. could have used a much larger update than what has been given. Take Safari, for instance. In terms of features, it's way behind Firefox, I.E., and even Camino. Sure, it has a faster rendering engine than Tiger's Safari, but app. features have been relatively untouched (besides for resizable text fields and a new find). RSS support is still very rudimentary, there's no bookmark/history searching, no bookmark separators, etc. I love the new search field, btw (I would have loved to see some animated features like this throughout the OS). Safari is a major part of the OS, and in my opinion, a new OS release should bring more than just a new search box and resizable text fields. But, that's just me ;)

Fair enough. Personally I don't usually get too excited about the other stuff since I don't use some of the other apps (i.e. I use Firefox, not Safari). Some of the minor stuff I actually like though, such as the "notes" and "to do" integration in Mail. I know these are really small minor things, but I know I'll actually use them, because I actually do send myself e-mails as notes and to-dos, so I like having them organized like this.

But all I really wanted to see was improving the underlying Finder, and making it so the whole system will perform better, and knowing that devs will be able to develop some cool third party stuff.

I figure that some of the stuff they showed in the new Finder is presumably benefiting from Core Animation, just perhaps in more subtle ways (Cover Flow, Stacks, etc.).
 
Seriously? That is a HUGE disappointment. As I have to use Windows Vista for AutoCAD work, I was hoping Leopard would have a better way to switch between the two OS's. Even though I have an Intel Quad Mac Pro, I don't want to use virtualization software such as Parallels as its a huge memory hog and AutoCAD is seriously slow, it needs a fresh independent OS for the memory. Shame that Apple has nixed this. My first response to all the negativity since the WWDC on Macrumors was to defend Leopard, now I'm starting to rethink that position. :(
 
Seriously? That is a HUGE disappointment. As I have to use Windows Vista for AutoCAD work, I was hoping Leopard would have a better way to switch between the two OS's. Even though I have an Intel Quad Mac Pro, I don't want to use virtualization software such as Parallels as its a huge memory hog and AutoCAD is seriously slow, it needs a fresh independent OS for the memory. Shame that Apple has nixed this. My first response to all the negativity since the WWDC on Macrumors was to defend Leopard, now I'm starting to rethink that position. :(

If it has been taken out permanently, I think there has to be a good reason for it. Clearly something that wasn't stable or safe from one side or the other (people have already mentioned a few possibilities).

Now Leopard is supposed to be a disappointment because there isn't "fast OS switching"?

Seriously, how much difference does this even make? From what I've seen, both OS X and Vista boot up pretty quickly as it is. I don't see how it's such a deal breaker that it would make someone decide Leopard isn't worth it or something just because it isn't there (as you've said it is causing you to rethink defending Leopard).
 
I'm not wondering. 2.5 years is how long Apple's been working on the iPhone right?


  • Quick Look - nice, but hardly revolutionary
  • iChat - in my opinion, the only part of leopard that's worthy of a whole new OS release
  • New Finder - Really - it seems like the old Finder to me, with a slightly modified Sidebar
  • New Desktop - I still don't get what's new other than the translucent menu bar (which, btw, should take a developer all of 2 sec to change opacity settings to implement).
  • New Dock - I give you this one, stacks look neat and I like the updated look
  • Unified Interface - The interface was already around in Tiger, it's just been added to more apps. I think it's ugly, btw - I was looking for something a bit more revolutionary
  • 64-Bit - A nice, under the hood improvement

So, what are we left with? Some nice under-the-hood improvements like core animation and 64-bit, Time Machine, and iChat. The rest seems and like some 'features' that may as well have been developed in a few months and added to a point release. Unless there are a lot of 'secret features' out there (and I'm not getting my hopes up), am I the only one wondering what Apple's OS developers have been up to for the past 2 1/2+ years?
 
Besides for the 64-bit thing, (and Time machine, which you didn't mention) everything else is pretty minor. I agree that these features are nice, but by themselves they don't make a major release.

I too, have run out of Kool-Aid.

But they aren't by themselves. They are all together with the 64-bit. And I for one was disappointed as well but then, how much can they add before the "features" start getting in the way. These refinements and under the hood improvements were much needed and by this user, much welcomed.

Leopard is looking to be less flash and bang and more substance. I'm sure other people will say it better than myself but I look forward to using Leopard when I purchase it in January or so, after all the bugs have been worked out.
 
But they aren't by themselves. They are all together with the 64-bit. And I for one was disappointed as well but then, how much can they add before the "features" start getting in the way. These refinements and under the hood improvements were much needed and by this user, much welcomed.

Leopard is looking to be less flash and bang and more substance. I'm sure other people will say it better than myself but I look forward to using Leopard when I purchase it in January or so, after all the bugs have been worked out.

I agree with this completely but why did Steve just show the flash and bang and not get into the substance on Monday. He had a room full of developers in front of him and they certainly would have appreciated more substance and less "Vistaesque".
 
It's sad to see this feature (presumably) being dropped :( I actually thought about this feature a few months ago here.

Anyhow, that new Finder is awesome :)
 
Well I emailed them this to them as a feature request back in April, I got all excited when I heard thats how they were going to do it. It stinks they removed it.

I also posted it on MacNN:
http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/333134/possible-idea-for-final-boot-camp/

If you are angry they removed this feature, do what I did and send a feedback email to:
bootcamp@apple.com

If enough people voice their opinions, they will reconsider.

Steve
 
So, has this feature gone the way of Home on iPod?

By "gone the way of" do you mean "included in Leopard"?

External Accounts is a new Portable Home Directory feature that allows you to have a users home directory on an external FireWire or USB portable drive. The account can be fully managed using Workgroup Manager and can be protected using FileVault. This new feature is ideal for student use in computer labs or for users with multiple workstations. - Source
 
I agree with this completely but why did Steve just show the flash and bang and not get into the substance on Monday. He had a room full of developers in front of him and they certainly would have appreciated more substance and less "Vistaesque".

Because SJ may be smart, but he's not a coder anymore. I don't think any dev would take him seriously talking about threading models, kernel locking, AutoFS, DTrace or other technical topics. That's what the sessions are for. Those who are curious, just look at the sessions: http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/sessions/. And this doesn't include the "hidden" sessions after keynote. There's more than just the media show on Monday.
 
You mean a "Vista-release"?

  • Unneeded eye-candy: check.
  • "Glass" interface elements: check.
  • New X.0 version of web browser, with few new features to justify version number jump: check.
  • Revolutionary new filesystem dropped: check.
  • Removing features prior to launch: in progress.
Hardly.

  • Pretty cool eye-candy which nicely complements new features: check.
  • I'll give you this one. At least this stuff runs on computers which cost under a year's wages...
  • New X.0 version of web browser, with huge improvements to the rendering engine and really huge under-the-hood changes (including platform abstraction, which enabled a port to another operating system): check.
  • Advanced FS which isn't really needed yet, takes more resources to use, and isn't even used on bootable drives by its inventor (Sun) because they don't fully trust it yet, and was never announced by Apple so it certainly wasn't dropped, yet still is present in read-only form from the terminal despite all this: check.
  • Some muppet read a list of "planned features" and took it to mean they'd all be implemented by 10.5.0, and put it on the website: probable check, if I had to guess.
We seem to be forgetting the awesomeness which is Core Animation here, along with a Finder which finally appears to be fixed (Google "FTFF" if you don't know what I mean)... amongst many other things. This is a bigger release than Tiger. Why do you think so many new applications are already announced as Leopard-only? Hint: it's not because they consider Tiger owners' money to be 'dirty'.
 
If this feature won't get ditched, I wonder how it would be implemented.
It would be really cool if they would dump the RAM to the hard drive occasionally while the hard drive is idle and the RAM doesn't reach it's bandwidth limit, like the virtual machine programs do. This way, Safe Sleeping will only take a few seconds since it wouldn't have to dump the whole RAM.
 
By "gone the way of" do you mean "included in Leopard"?

External Accounts is a new Portable Home Directory feature that allows you to have a users home directory on an external FireWire or USB portable drive. The account can be fully managed using Workgroup Manager and can be protected using FileVault. This new feature is ideal for student use in computer labs or for users with multiple workstations. - Source
Well, no. :eek: I didn't know about that.

...But will that feature be available on all versions of Leopard, or just server?
 
Thunk - thunk - thunk

The sound of meaningful Leopard features being left on the cutting room floor.

Ptttuuuuuuuuuuuuuui!

The sound of a reflective dock being added.
 
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