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Let's see the GOLD!
- Thread starter Mark954
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Exactly. So you don't end up working at McDonald's and get buttmad when you see others buying a watch that's 75% your yearly wage.
A photo of the rose gold alloy
Hi everyone. This is my first post on here. Yesterday I made an appointment to see the Edition. Here is a picture of what Apple is calling "rose gold". It's very pretty but it has a more coppery appearance than the softness of rose gold. It is pretty, particularly as a contrast against the white sport band or the black sport band. I don't think the price structure on it makes sense (a bit over priced for what you are getting) but it's a pretty watch.
Hi everyone. This is my first post on here. Yesterday I made an appointment to see the Edition. Here is a picture of what Apple is calling "rose gold". It's very pretty but it has a more coppery appearance than the softness of rose gold. It is pretty, particularly as a contrast against the white sport band or the black sport band. I don't think the price structure on it makes sense (a bit over priced for what you are getting) but it's a pretty watch.
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I liked that one, too, Elizabeth.
I would absolutely buy it, as I said upthread, for about 1/4-1/3 of what they're charging for it now.
It's got nice heft and a pretty color to the case.
I agree with you. I liked the weight of it. But it's heavier due to the stuff they mixed into the gold to make the alloy. I wish more people realized it isn't solid gold. It's an alloy mix and that's why it doesn't look like real rose gold, frankly. I did buy the stainless watch but now from what I am reading online it is scratching easily after normal wear which indicates that they did not plate it in rhodium. I am surprised they didn't take that step but it might be hard to source a huge amount of rhodium at this time and that could be why they didn't. So I am not sure if there is a fix for that or how Apple will address that concern. It's not an issue for me yet since my watch won't arrive for a few more weeks.
And why I wish they hadn't tried for such huge margins with the gold.
My SS is holding up fine and I've had it since last Friday. Wearing it every day.
I've also got the Milanese loop and it's not scratching the case at all.
I'm not super delicate with it, but I'm not exactly rough, either. I think scratches should buff out.
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It completely blows my mind why Apple is offering the Edition watch with the cheap sports band. It honestly looks awful to me.
People keep posting that the sports band feels very high quality. I guess this is proof positive, if they are offering it with the gold watches.
Stainless steel watches & jewelry typically aren't plated with rhodium. Are you sure you're not thinking of white gold?
Looks better in person, I promise. I was surprised.
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I wondered about that, but I'm not a metallurgist or a jeweler.
Is that a 42mm?
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Does it matter though? They're only £39. Can just buy a new one if it's not.
That is not correct. The watch is made with solid 18k gold. 18k gold is by definition 75% pure. There is no such thing as "real rose gold". All gold is yellow in color. You create rose gold by using more copper in the 25% of the metal that is not gold. Gold is much denser than copper, so the heavy weight is certainly from the gold.
I don't think so. Their patent application states they're alloy mix uses "as little gold as possible" while still maintaining the 18 karatage. It's the mass of 18K gold with a significantly reduced volume. You can read the patent claims online. It's a public document.
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Yes I'm sure. The SS finish on most watches is a brushed finish. That is very different from the stainless finish on this watchcase which is a very high sheen finish. So it makes sense in this case that they could have coated it in rhodium in order to prevent scratching. FWIW, all of my platinum and white gold jewelry is coated with rhodium when it is new from the store. It's a great metal to apply to a shiny surface that is white gold in color, in order to protect it from scratching.
They didn't use the manufacturing process detailed in that patent application and even if they had, the gold would still have been the heaviest element used in the alloying process.
I am not sure how you would be so certain that they didn't? Is that based on the design director's video discussing the alloy? Because the two are not mutually exclusive. The alloy can, and very likely DOES, contain all of the elements he discussed in the video along with the mixture outlined in the patent. Apple has been very upfront that the watchcase is a gold alloy mix. (Wouldn't it have to be? If you think about watchcases that are truly solid gold, they are extremely soft and not very protective of the mechanical workings of the watch. Pieces like that are heirloom pieces that are only worn on special occasions, not every day and certainly would not be acceptable to house state of the art computer technology that is meant to be actively used, pushed on, used against scanners, and the like). Of course you are right that gold is heavier than stainless steel. But silver is also heavier than stainless steel. And copper is heavier than both silver and stainless steel. All of those elements were discussed in the design director's video of the gold alloy used for the gold watchcase. All that being the case, it would be wrong to extrapolate that the weight difference in the case is solely attributable to high volume gold content as opposed to what Apple has already stated, that it is a dense alloy mix. Finally, you can always use your eyes. If you collect 18K rose gold, as I do, then you know that it is a soft gold appearance. That makes sense because 18K gold is a softer metal than 14K gold. It contains some copper to create the rose gold appearance but the greatest volume is gold, which as you already noted is yellow. The watchcase of the "rose gold" is a beautiful but coppery color that in my view comes from a good deal of copper, and it is a lot shinier perhaps due to the use of palladium (discussed in the video). And as I already mentioned, both copper and gold are heavier than stainless steel. And palladium is three times heavier than stainless by some estimates. So again, it's incorrect to extrapolate that the weight is due to a lot of gold.
At the end of the day, the Edition is by far the nicest of the time pieces, but the price structure seems a bit off to me, (and to others, for example the Harvard Business Review issued a pretty good analysis on the price flaw in the Edition) given that the value of the watch lies in the technology and the technology across all of the time pieces remains constant. One is not paying $10K-$17K for solid 18K gold as that term is normally meant and understood. That is the bottom line and so in my view the price structure ought to have reflected that. A watch in the $5K range would have been more reasonable I think. I am very excited about my watch, but I have already reached out to some experts about getting the rhodium plating put on it to protect it from scratching. I wish Apple had done this for me. The watch I purchased is coming at close to $1000 after taxes, AppleCare (which might be voided after I protect the watch) and the extra band I bought. So it would have been nice for them to take that extra step and protect the housing with something scratch resistant since they chose to go with a high-sheen housing as opposed to brushed stainless steel which does not have these scratch issues.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts.
1. That patent doesn't apply to the Watch Edition.
2. All gold used in jewelry is an alloy mix. 18KT gold is 18KT gold - by definition 75% pure gold, 25% alloy of other metals. It is a solid gold casing. Color is determined by the specific mixture of the other alloys (rose gold includes both copper and silver, yellow gold contains copper, silver, and zinc, and white gold contains palladium, zinc, nickel). It is the combination of the "other 25%" that determines the color of metal. There is not such thing as "pure gold" or "real" rose gold in jewelry. I have 10KT gold merchandise that are the same 'purity' in terms of gold, but are vastly different colors due to different manufacturing of the alloys. And yes, it is considered solid gold.
3. If the alloy percentage was different in any single way, Apple would legally NOT be able to mark the casing with "18KT" on the back of the watch.
Agreed.
But gold (19.32 gr/cm³) has a higher density than both copper (8.92 gr/cm³) and palladium (12.16 gr/cm³). As 75% of the alloy content is gold, it's safe to say that it's the gold content which has the major influence on it's weight.
I am not sure how you would be so certain that they didn't? Is that based on the design director's video discussing the alloy? Because the two are not mutually exclusive. The alloy can, and very likely DOES, contain all of the elements he discussed in the video along with the mixture outlined in the patent. Apple has been very upfront that the watchcase is a gold alloy mix. (Wouldn't it have to be? If you think about watchcases that are truly solid gold, they are extremely soft and not very protective of the mechanical workings of the watch. Pieces like that are heirloom pieces that are only worn on special occasions, not every day and certainly would not be acceptable to house state of the art computer technology that is meant to be actively used, pushed on, used against scanners, and the like). Of course you are right that gold is heavier than stainless steel. But silver is also heavier than stainless steel. And copper is heavier than both silver and stainless steel. All of those elements were discussed in the design director's video of the gold alloy used for the gold watchcase. All that being the case, it would be wrong to extrapolate that the weight difference in the case is solely attributable to high volume gold content as opposed to what Apple has already stated, that it is a dense alloy mix. Finally, you can always use your eyes. If you collect 18K rose gold, as I do, then you know that it is a soft gold appearance. That makes sense because 18K gold is a softer metal than 14K gold. It contains some copper to create the rose gold appearance but the greatest volume is gold, which as you already noted is yellow. The watchcase of the "rose gold" is a beautiful but coppery color that in my view comes from a good deal of copper, and it is a lot shinier perhaps due to the use of palladium (discussed in the video). And as I already mentioned, both copper and gold are heavier than stainless steel. And palladium is three times heavier than stainless by some estimates. So again, it's incorrect to extrapolate that the weight is due to a lot of gold.
At the end of the day, the Edition is by far the nicest of the time pieces, but the price structure seems a bit off to me, (and to others, for example the Harvard Business Review issued a pretty good analysis on the price flaw in the Edition) given that the value of the watch lies in the technology and the technology across all of the time pieces remains constant. One is not paying $10K-$17K for solid 18K gold as that term is normally meant and understood. That is the bottom line and so in my view the price structure ought to have reflected that. A watch in the $5K range would have been more reasonable I think. I am very excited about my watch, but I have already reached out to some experts about getting the rhodium plating put on it to protect it from scratching. I wish Apple had done this for me. The watch I purchased is coming at close to $1000 after taxes, AppleCare (which might be voided after I protect the watch) and the extra band I bought. So it would have been nice for them to take that extra step and protect the housing with something scratch resistant since they chose to go with a high-sheen housing as opposed to brushed stainless steel which does not have these scratch issues.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts.
No one will read this.
I have not seen a single complaint from someone who actually bought the Edition about the quality of the sport band or the appropriateness of the pairing.
Ok great. Please point me to the place where Apple has stated that the patent "doesn't apply to" the Edition. Thank you. In fact, hasn't Apple been very forthright about the fact that this is a custom process? It is exclusive to Apple, creating a gold that is much denser and harder than standard gold. Exclusivity, would come from either owning a patent or having an exclusive license to the patent. And it appears that the patent is for a process to create a much harder and denser gold. I suggest you read Claim 28 in the patent. The process maintains the 18 karatage by mass which is required in order to advertise it as 18 karat gold. But the volume of the gold significantly reduced according to the patent claims.
Have a great day!
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If they had used the patent using low density ceramics in the alloy it would have resulted in a gold that was less dense than normal 18K gold.
I'm not sure I've seen a single legitimate post from someone who bought the edition period. The point being that there are very few buyers and even fewer of them posting about it, so I don't think you can make judgments based on that. I do personally think that including a $50 band (admittedly with the addition of a solid gold pin) with a watch that costs $10,000+ is a little odd. But I'll admit I'm not in the target market.