Lightning Headphones: Are They Better or Just an Inconvenience?

[Mac 128]

Apple already thought it through when they added lightening port on iPhone years ago. The current case is not of adding value, but removal of accessibilty.

Right -- Apple is so greedy, that despite losing market share and reporting their first losses in 13 years, they're going to remove a universally adopted audio standard from their phones giving their competition a huge edge, when they don't have to? Better sell all of my stock now then.

And yet in hi-fi gear the DACs are never put inside the speakers and the amplifiers are rarely put there either. The chance that head phone manufacturers will use better DACs than the ones in iPhone are very low. Sure, the ones in expensive ($300+) head phones will probably be better but the vast majority of the head phones will use dirt chip DACs.

What are you talking about? How do you think BlueTooth speakers reproduce any audio without a DAC and amp!? How do you think my AirPlay and BT Denon capable amp reproduce any audio without them? And how do you think home theater amps with digital optical inputs, which have been a staple for years, reproduce audio without a DAC? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Not even worth addressing your other points -- but, if a manufacturer cuts corners, they will lose business. Period.

 

[Shirasaki]

Size and cost constraints associated with the 3.5mm headphone jack limit the quality of the DAC and amp, but in Lightning-connected headphones, the DAC and the amp are built into the headphones themselves instead of the iPhone, allowing manufacturers to control sound quality.

Apple, just tell me how you can remove DAC from your device where you still NEED A SPEAKER.
And as long as we need a speaker to play stuff, it is virtually impossible to remove DAC from device, and the starting point of this whole thing does not exist at all.

 

[teknikal90]

No I did not, I'm not going to read every response before commenting. I do wish there was a way to see if someone responded to a particular post.

no worries

 

[Shirasaki]

Ummmm..... Please Explain how you charge your phone while using a corded headphone??? do you sit at a desk all day without moving??

And what about carrying a power bank?

 

[sirdir]

I think apple should go for usb C + lightning for the time being and then dump lightning in some years.

 

[falainber]

What are you talking about? How do you think BlueTooth speakers reproduce any audio without a DAC and amp!? How do you think my AirPlay and BT Denon capable amp reproduce any audio without them? And how do you think home theater amps with digital optical inputs, which have been a staple for years, reproduce audio without a DAC? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Not even worth addressing your other points -- but, if a manufacturer cuts corners, they will lose business. Period.

Well, I said Hi-Fi speakers. BT speakers are not Hi-Fi speakers. They are Lo Fi speakers.

 

[Mabizu]

I bet some one make a "Y" cable to solve that.

I guess Apple solves the problem by just integrating wireless charging, like in the Apple Watch or in competitor devices. It's time for Apple to jump on that train. So I guess at least one issue less. Wonder why nobody else was thinking about this option sofar....

 

[Zwhaler]

Of course it's an inconvenience. Why would I only use headphones with an iPhone? How about a laptop, Apollo, older iPod, Android smartphone.. the list goes on. I need to use an adapter??? Are they going to start putting in lightning ports on Macs? What about the brand new iPads that are on the market today, you can't charge them and listen to music at the same time without an adapter? Give me a break. Use 3.5mm until they go completely wireless. This is a joke.

 

[Shirasaki]

It's the age of bluetooth headsets now, cut the cords!

Hey guys, help electricity industry to cut the cord and transfer 500kV electricity wirelessly.

 

[falainber]

Maybe... but nothing else.

"In our tests, all of the Lightning-connected headphones, from the $45 pair to the $800 pair, sounded better than comparable headphones connected to an iPhone using the 3.5mm jack, so while many of us may be disappointed with the inconvenience of no headphone jack, at least there's the silver lining of better quality audio when using Lightning-connected headphones."

This first off is a paid advertisement. Philips gave them headphones.

Second, was the test against the same model? There's absolutely no testing details here. Where they A/B tested against the same model, blindly?

This reads like some sham consumer thing, like when Listerine said it was as effective as floss.

A REAL TEST would have been to take 3.5mm headphones... the same ones... and run them through a 3.5mm jack, and a lightning/DAC converter. Otherwise, this is all DonkeyPoo.
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The phone via the cable. It's no longer passive; it draws.

Indeed, in this case MR seemingly is pooping on iPhone DAC which many consider to be a pretty good one. I can understand that a $800 head phones may have, say, $200 worth of DAC and amplifier hardware in them and sound better when connected to lightning port but $45 head phones? Give me a break. They probably have a $5 DAC and $5 amplifier.

 

[arkmannj]

It's the age of bluetooth headsets now, cut the cords!

When I find BT headphones that can do the following I'll agree:
* Be price competitive with wired headphones
* Offer the same sound quality as wired headphones (both in the listening, and the microphone)
* That can last a week+ on a single charge.
* Offer batteries that don't need to constantly be recharged, or degrade to the point where I need to replace the battery every year.
* Don't have batteries that harm the environment zany more than wired headphones would
* Are as light and comfortable as wired headphones
* Doesn't drain a device's battery any faster than wired headphones
* Is only as susceptible to radio interference as wired headphones

If bluetooth is fine for you then great, but it's not the best for everyone, and every situation. My phone is playing music, or being talked in, and used 10+ hours a day. For My uses I have yet to find a compelling wireless headset that keeps up.

Not in direct reponse to the quote above:
I have yet to hear a compelling argument about what is gained and benefited by "ditching the cord" the phone will only get so thin, and honestly the phones are thin enough for me now, so for me personally that's not a particular selling point. So besides potential "thinness" what else is there to be gained or benefited... And what is being held back by keeping the headphone port ?

 

[Mac 128]

Apple, just tell me how you can remove DAC from your device where you still NEED A SPEAKER.
And as long as we need a speaker to play stuff, it is virtually impossible to remove DAC from device, and the starting point of this whole thing does not exist at all.

Apple isn't going to remove the DAC from the iPhone. They will likely put a less expensive low cost version in there since the built-in speakers don't required the same quality as the headphone jack does.

Well, I said Hi-Fi speakers. BT speakers are not Hi-Fi speakers. They are Lo Fi speakers.

So every pair of speakers capable of BT are Lo-Fi? THere's not one quality BT speaker out there with an analogue interface? Give me a break. And then there's Sonos. Not BT, but wireless, built-in amp, DAC and power supply. And hardly "Lo-Fi".

Indeed, in this case MR seemingly is pooping on iPhone DAC which many consider to be a pretty good one. I can understand that a $800 head phones may have, say, $200 worth of DAC and amplifier hardware in them and sound better when connected to lightning port but $45 head phones? Give me a break. They probably have a $5 DAC and $5 amplifier.

You do understand that Apple pays less than $18 for all of the user I/O chips, not just the DAC and amp. You're making a ignorant mountain out of a molehilll you don't even understand.

 

[falainber]

Apple isn't going to remove the DAC from the iPhone. They will likely put a less expensive low cost version in there since the built-in speakers don't required the same quality as the headphone jack does.



So every pair of speakers capable of BT are Lo-Fi? THere's not one quality BT speaker out there with an analogue interface? Give me a break. And then there's Sonos. Not BT, but wireless, built-in amp, DAC and power supply. And hardly "Lo-Fi".



You do understand that Apple pays less than $18 for all of the user I/O chips, not just the DAC and amp. You're making a ignorant mountain out of a molehilll you don't even understand.

Yes, and BOM for $45 head phones is probably around $10.

 

[csglinux]

Yeah, this is a money grab. Plain and simple. Anybody who's trying to spin it as anything else is a fool.

Apple's hubris might end up biting them in the butt here. This is only going to make money for Apple if people continue to buy future iPhones without the 3.5 mm headphone socket. Look at the number of comments this headphone jack issue regularly garners here on MacRumors. There are a LOT of people who are very unhappy at the prospect of losing that 3.5 mm audio socket. Apple would be making a mistake to assume we're all going to roll over and buy the iPhone 7 regardless. For those worried about losing that 3.5 mm socket, there is a simple solution:

http://modmyi.com/forums/member-wri...w-why-we-should-all-more-device-agnostic.html

 

[AdonisSMU]

Right -- Apple is so greedy, that despite losing market share and reporting their first losses in 13 years, they're going to remove a universally adopted audio standard from their phones giving their competition a huge edge, when they don't have to? Better sell all of my stock now then.



What are you talking about? How do you think BlueTooth speakers reproduce any audio without a DAC and amp!? How do you think my AirPlay and BT Denon capable amp reproduce any audio without them? And how do you think home theater amps with digital optical inputs, which have been a staple for years, reproduce audio without a DAC? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Not even worth addressing your other points -- but, if a manufacturer cuts corners, they will lose business. Period.

It's universally adopted audio standard that hasn't been updated in decades. I think it's time someone put their money where their mouth is and took the initiative.

 

[jspax]

Come on, Iphone specific headphones I can't use with any other devices? At least have them USB C. As it is, I'll need a dongle to use my existing noise canceling headsets? I've got lots of places I plug my phone into a set of speakers. BT is nice for some situations, but no headphone jack is a deal breaker -- I've bought a 4S, 5, 5S, 6+ and 6S+ each year (contract free and max memory) and the same with each gen of the ipads, but I can use them all with different audio equipment. I'm sorry apple, but you're cutting off this functionality too soon. The 3.5mm audio interface has been in use for a long time and it's not going away any time soon, so dropping it will inconvenience a lot of people.

 

[JamesPDX]

Audio engineers weep for the future: The ongoing, dumbing-down of audio quality for sheer convenience; to overturn a working multi-generational standard; just so someone can make something thinner and charge the consumer for endless pointless, greed-driven updates.

 

[gnasher729]

I'm hoping that if Apple ditch the headphone port, the headphones in the box will be wireless. Then they'll work with other devices.

I give a damn about the headphones in the box. Apple isn't going to put anything in the box that comes close to my headphones, and I have no intention of replacing them.

 

[AllieNeko]

You'd be surprised - you pretty much have to hold your device next to the AP in order to achieve the highest coding rate + modulation. You can pretty easily try this yourself if you have the equipment.


Which ignores that the major power consumer: energy per bit transferred, goes up significantly.

Energy per bit transferred goes down (tho the wider channels in 802.11ac offset this some, listening in idle to an 80MHz channel isn't the world's most efficient thing...). And I've got the highest MCS in the same room, easily, in a low-interference environment. Congested areas, of course not. But a rural house with the AP in the living room should see the highest MCS throughout the living room most of the time, as long as there's no other 5GHz devices in the house either.

 

[gnasher729]

It depends - didn't WiFi overtake Ethernet speeds? Because WiFi was more convenient so developed more, where as Ethernet was left behind. I can see a similar thing happening with audio.

10GBASE-ZR does 10 Gigabit over 80 kilometres.

 

[shaunp]

My current headphones (Shure SE535's) work with my iPhone, my ipad, my laptop and anything else that has a 3.5mm jack. they sound very good and given the price of them I wouldn't want to swap them for anything else right now. I also don't want to have to use an adaptor if I want to use them on future iphones, and then remove the adaptor when I plug them into my laptop.

Given the state of the current Mac lineup too, if nothing convincing comes out of WWDC in June I think shorting Apple stock would be a great move. Apple I think you are loosing the plot.

 

[drumcat]

Indeed, in this case MR seemingly is pooping on iPhone DAC which many consider to be a pretty good one. I can understand that a $800 head phones may have, say, $200 worth of DAC and amplifier hardware in them and sound better when connected to lightning port but $45 head phones? Give me a break. They probably have a $5 DAC and $5 amplifier.

The iPhone DAC is far and away the best one in mobile platforms. It outperforms the SNR in most of its laptops.
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My current headphones (Shure SE535's) work with my iPhone, my ipad, my laptop and anything else that has a 3.5mm jack. they sound very good and given the price of them I wouldn't want to swap them for anything else right now. I also don't want to have to use an adaptor if I want to use them on future iphones, and then remove the adaptor when I plug them into my laptop.

Given the state of the current Mac lineup too, if nothing convincing comes out of WWDC in June I think shorting Apple stock would be a great move. Apple I think you are loosing the plot.

I will be reevaluating my position on the same criterium.

 

[gnasher729]

As long as both are loud enough, no, why would the louder one be better? Audio quality is about distortion, frequency response etc.

Every listener _thinks_ that the louder one is better. So if you compare to headphone sets, people will automatically prefer the louder one.

Now I must say if they took _the same_ $800 headphones, that means the headphones have their own amplifier which costs a lot of money. So we are comparing one set of $400 headphones against $400 headphones plus $400 amplifier. And since the company is selling them for the amplifier, there is a good chance that the analogue input is much less optimised than the digital input, so we might compare $400 carelessly designed headphones against $400 headphones plus $400 amplifier.

A test against proper $800 dedicated analogue input headphones with reasonably low impedance would have been a lot more convincing.

 

[drumcat]

My current headphones (Shure SE535's) work with my iPhone, my ipad, my laptop and anything else that has a 3.5mm jack. they sound very good and given the price of them I wouldn't want to swap them for anything else right now. I also don't want to have to use an adaptor if I want to use them on future iphones, and then remove the adaptor when I plug them into my laptop.

Given the state of the current Mac lineup too, if nothing convincing comes out of WWDC in June I think shorting Apple stock would be a great move. Apple I think you are loosing the plot.

It's also funny given that the 535 came with a resistor adapter. Imagine that stupid chain...

 

[gnasher729]

Yeah, no, you're totally wrong. All caps for this: ANALOG WIRED HEADPHONES ON A MOBILE PHONE ARE THE WORST.

I cannot begin to understand this status quo sentiment. I want wireless headphones that are amazing and as long as the 3.5 mm jack exists we will never get it.

You've never plugged some cheap Grado SR60's in your iPhone. But then you post in all caps...