Lines of Resellers Returning New iPads at Fifth Avenue Apple Store

[LobsterDK]

Uh, no... the only difference is that I've proved myself. Let's start with OS X. I have six certifications from Apple and I had to read and learn about 2,500 pages of information. I have 16 apps on the App Store (self taught objective-c, my first programming language) and I'm constantly being hired or asked to work. The IT department at my school has no idea what they're doing, even though it's their job, and I am always asked for advice. In middle school, the headmaster based some of his choices and opinions about the iPad pilot program based on what I had to say.

I really have better things to do than brag, which I'm not trying to do, but I can't express to you how much it angers me when I am put down and treated like a normal teenager. I don't know what you meant when you said that you knew more than everyone else at your age, as "most everyone does", but I'm not an idiot, so don't treat me like one. I'm sure I can stand in a store and explain to people why they should buy an iPad or help someone with computer problems.

In 1637, I was hatched on the planet Light Beer. In the 37 nanoseconds I spent in a gestation chamber I learned Kung Fu, the kazoo, and the wisdom of not biting my sister. By the time I had conquered the planet of the very lonely cantaloupe woman (microwave baby, microwave), I had already developed a 6th sense, being able to tell the difference between my ass, a hole in the ground, and a bucket of KFC - extra crispy.

Not long after, I invented Velcro and those obnoxious plastic blister packages. Within two millennia of my eleventy-first birthday, Liv Tyler pledged her undieing love to me. Orlando Bloom is still pissed about that.

P.S. do you seriously not recognize the irony in my "narcissism" comment and your response? Love ya though... I'm a life long developer myself. I would recommend toning down my boastful bravado. It's going to do you NO favors when you are out in the adult workforce that you are currently bitter to not be a part of.*

Chocolate covered advice #1: Be proud of your accomplishments, but try to keep your superiority complex in check.*Unless you are John Carmack or Tim Sweeny's understudy, your skill set is neither unique nor irreplaceable(we developers are EVERYWHERE)... you'll learn that soon enough should your behavior warrant the lesson. Nor does your experience give you ANY right to claim intellectual superiority over people you don't know. That sort of behavior? It's called narcissism.

But enough of this silly bickering. Keep at it man! Last thing in the world I would ever do is discourage someone from learning to code and stretch their mental muscle. Just save the chest thumping till you are a bit older, have learned a thing or two, and have had a few beers like me

 

[Navdakilla]

definitely should pose a restocking fee, to get rid of some of these people

 

[Shanpdx]

Pre-Order! Pre-Order!!

Pre-Order!!! problem solved.

 

[0dev]

Is that a law?

I find that kind of ridiculous.

I highly doubt that it's true since EU legislation - which the UK has a history of following to the letter - states that there must be a 30 day window of return for items even if they are not damaged. I have, in the past, been able to use this in UK shops to return working items I have opened and used.

 

[Phil A.]

I highly doubt that it's true since EU legislation - which the UK has a history of following to the letter - states that there must be a 30 day window of return for items even if they are not damaged. I have, in the past, been able to use this in UK shops to return working items I have opened and used.

There is no legal right to a refund in the UK if you simply change your mind; although many stores do allow returns, they have no legal obligation to do so.
This paragraph explains it quite clearly

Customers return goods to retailers every day and many of them ask for refunds.
Circumstances when customers do not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement

Customers do not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement from you if they

• accidentally damaged the item

• misused it and caused a fault

• tried to repair it themselves or had someone else try to repair it, which damaged the item*

• if they knew it was faulty before they bought it

• if they decide they no longer want the item (for example it's the wrong size or colour, or does not suit them).

*The customer does not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement as a result of the damage their repair attempt has caused to the item. But, they may still have a right to a remedy because of the original fault with the item, such as a price reduction or a partial refund. Or, if appropriate, the customer may request a repair of the original fault if this makes the item usable despite the damage they have caused. See Faulty goods that have been accepted for more information about these remedies.

Source: UK Office of Fair Trading Website

The main exception is if you buy goods (for example) over the internet rather than in a store, when the distance selling regulations do give you the right to return goods for no reason

 

[LobsterDK]

Uh, no... the only difference is that I've proved myself. Let's start with OS X. I have six certifications from Apple and I had to read and learn about 2,500 pages of information. I have 16 apps on the App Store (self taught objective-c, my first programming language) and I'm constantly being hired or asked to work. The IT department at my school has no idea what they're doing, even though it's their job, and I am always asked for advice. In middle school, the headmaster based some of his choices and opinions about the iPad pilot program based on what I had to say.

I really have better things to do than brag, which I'm not trying to do, but I can't express to you how much it angers me when I am put down and treated like a normal teenager. I don't know what you meant when you said that you knew more than everyone else at your age, as "most everyone does", but I'm not an idiot, so don't treat me like one. I'm sure I can stand in a store and explain to people why they should buy an iPad or help someone with computer problems.

He probably does, the 'genius' title for apple employees is a joke. Ever dealt with any of them on an actual technical problem? Its not a whole lot of fun. I was treated like an idiot when my Macbook Pro was having display issues when connected to an external monitor. I even brought videos to show the problems i was having at home (because i wasnt going to carry my 24" monitor like a dingbat)... needless to say, the problem was never fixed because it was apple's awful graphics drivers that was the problem.

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Would this be a good time to use the word 'pwned' ?

It's always a good time to say 'pwned'. Just like there is always room for Jello. And the check is always in the mail. I occasionally like to stand on a crowded street corner, point to the sky and scream "A flock of turtles!!". It's always the right time for that.... Unless I have a migraine due to a tequila hangover. Or we are in the midst of a mass extinction due to a meteor impact. That's when I start raiding the woman's toiletries section at Kroger's (it's happened twice now!)

 

[0dev]

There is no legal right to a refund in the UK if you simply change your mind; although many stores do allow one, they have no legal obligation to do so.
This paragraph explains it quite clearly


Source: UK Office of Fair Trading Website

Huh, you learn something new every day.

For the record, Sainsbury's let me return a phone I'd been using for a month, so they're good guys

 

[Heavysound]

Just to clarify the legal issues:

In the UK (which is composed of three completely separate jurisdictions of England & Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but whatever) there is no obligation imposed by any statute (common law tends not to apply as consumer relations are all governed by statute now; it's far easier to regulate and leaves the affairs of society less susceptible to intervention by the ageing - and non-representative - judiciary) on retailers to accept returned goods where there is no evidence of that the goods did not conform to their description or proved faulty. Where either of these instances does occur, the relevant legislative provisions are sections 13 and 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

As far as EU membership is concerned, as a Member State, the UK must enforce all EU Regulations and comply with all EU Directives (both being binding supranational legislative instruments; the former applying across the Union and the latter applying specifically to those Member States named in its address (normally all Member States but sometimes Malta is left out because we keep forgetting it's there), usually allowing a two-year grace period for Member States to incorporate the provisions therein into their national law(s)). Sale of Goods legislation at the supranational level is contained in Directive 1999/44/EC which applies to the UK and has been in force for 13 years. It is not necessary to refer to it at the national level as the national law (SoGA 1979) is already in accordance with it and reference to it would only occur where a challenge was mounted in the ECJ.

Retailers generally provide the policies mentioned for the purposes of goodwill and to establish and maintain customer loyalty and trust. What would stop bulk buying and returning situations are restrictions on the initial purchase quantity.

I'm a final year law student and a retail manager, by the way; it seemed like I should chip in. I'm also ridiculously obsessed with presentation and seem to have edited this thrice already.

 

[0dev]

Just to clarify the legal issues:

In the UK (which is composed of three completely separate jurisdictions of England & Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but whatever) there is no obligation imposed by any statute (common law tends not to apply as consumer relations are all governed by statute now; it's far easier to regulate and leaves the affairs of society less susceptible to intervention by the ageing - and non-representative - judiciary) on retailers to accept returned goods where there is no evidence of that the goods did not conform to their description or proved faulty. Where either of these instances does occur, the relevant legislative provisions are sections 13 and 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

As far as EU membership is concerned, as a Member State, the UK must enforce all EU Regulations and comply with all EU Directives (both being binding supranational legislative instruments; the former applying across the Union and the latter applying specifically to those Member States named in its address (normally all Member States but sometimes Malta is left out because we keep forgetting it's there), usually allowing a two-year grace period for Member States to incorporate the provisions therein into its national law). Sale of Goods legislation at the supranational level is contained in Directive 1999/44/EC which applies to the UK and has been in force for 13 years. It is not necessary to refer to it at the national level as the national law (SoGA 1979) is already in accordance with it and reference to it would only occur where a challenge was mounted in the ECJ.

Retailers generally provide the policies mentioned for the purposes of goodwill and to establish and maintain customer loyalty and trust. What would stop bulk buying and returning situations are restrictions on the initial purchase quantity.

I'm a final year law student and a retail manager by the way; it seemed like I should chip in.

Thank you Mr. Lawyer, I consider myself a little more educated than I was 10 minutes ago

 

[Phil A.]

Huh, you learn something new every day.

For the record, Sainsbury's let me return a phone I'd been using for a month, so they're good guys

To be fair, most stores do allow you to return goods if you change your mind, but it's always worth double checking.

 

[Heavysound]

Thank you Mr. Lawyer, I consider myself a little more educated than I was 10 minutes ago

Nae bother.

 

[psxp]

here

Well, I had bought 2 ipads in the US while traveling as wasnt sure which to keep. I decided to keep the 4G one.
I couldnt return to Apple in Canada as it was a US purchase.

Back in Toronto, I listed the one I didnt want (Wifi) in the local classifieds at below the Canadian Retail price + taxes and had very few emails about it. I had the usual wankers offer me $300 for it. etc. But what surprised me was there are tons of listings for iPads on craigslist and Kijiji.ca for hundreds more $$ over retail. Are they selling? maybe.. maybe not.

Anyway, it took me three days to sell mine. They guy was happy he got it for a fair price and I paid off my Credit card.

 

[kdarling]

There is no legal right to a refund in the UK if you simply change your mind; although many stores do allow returns, they have no legal obligation to do so.
This paragraph explains it quite clearly (snip)

Those rules sound like they apply after the package has been opened and the item has been used.

These iPads are brand new, in still unopened boxes.

Is there a rule for that in the UK?

Thanks!

 

[LobsterDK]

Just to clarify the legal issues:

In the UK (which is composed of three completely separate jurisdictions of England & Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but whatever) there is no obligation imposed by any statute (common law tends not to apply as consumer relations are all governed by statute now; it's far easier to regulate and leaves the affairs of society less susceptible to intervention by the ageing - and non-representative - judiciary) on retailers to accept returned goods where there is no evidence of that the goods did not conform to their description or proved faulty. Where either of these instances does occur, the relevant legislative provisions are sections 13 and 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

As far as EU membership is concerned, as a Member State, the UK must enforce all EU Regulations and comply with all EU Directives (both being binding supranational legislative instruments; the former applying across the Union and the latter applying specifically to those Member States named in its address (normally all Member States but sometimes Malta is left out because we keep forgetting it's there), usually allowing a two-year grace period for Member States to incorporate the provisions therein into their national law(s)). Sale of Goods legislation at the supranational level is contained in Directive 1999/44/EC which applies to the UK and has been in force for 13 years. It is not necessary to refer to it at the national level as the national law (SoGA 1979) is already in accordance with it and reference to it would only occur where a challenge was mounted in the ECJ.

Retailers generally provide the policies mentioned for the purposes of goodwill and to establish and maintain customer loyalty and trust. What would stop bulk buying and returning situations are restrictions on the initial purchase quantity.

I'm a final year law student and a retail manager, by the way; it seemed like I should chip in. I'm also ridiculously obsessed with presentation and seem to have edited this thrice already.

SILENCE! We will have none of your rationality and education! Not once did I see any spittle on your chin during this.

Mods: I'm just being playful. I don't post much. I'm highly allergic to ban hammers. I have 2 1/3 dogs and a son that was once a Siamese twin to a cheeseburger. Both were surgically remove from my left wallet.

 

[kurosov]

Wirelessly posted

If I was the manager I would refuse to refund them just for the lulz!

In the UK you don't have to refund something if there is nothing wrong with it. Many stores have a 14 day return policy. But that's all it is, a policy. Managers can and sometimes will overrule it.

********.

 

[techweenie]

It was fun watching people try to grab the brass ring and sell their iPad 3 for $1000 on Craigslist last Friday. Prices are drifting down for those units -- some are basically being offered at a loss.

Apple timed production perfectly to get all the money and leave nothing on the table. Good for the stock value. Bad for the scalpers.

 

[Rocketman]

Buy in a low sales tax state, sell in a high sales tax state. Hmmm.

 

[KPOM]

Buy in a low sales tax state, sell in a high sales tax state. Hmmm.

Maybe with the new iPhone we'll see throngs of would-be resellers lined up outside the Apple Store in Nashua, New Hampshire.

I, for one, am happy that Apple is able to keep up with demand. It improves the buying experience for the average consumer.

 

[zarusoba]

I like what that girl in the foreground is wearing... Now, what's all this about returns?

 

[69650]

That is the law in the UK. Unless the item is faulty or missold (i.e you were told it did something it doesn't) you have no right to a refund. It makes perfect sense.

Unless you bought the items on the internet in which case the distance selling regulations apply and you do have a legal right to return items for a full refund subject to certain conditions.

 

[Apple OC]

looks like the Party never happened this time in Scalper Town

 

[Defender2010]

So many conflicting reports about returns....
If the goods are unopened the customer has a right to a full refund providing the box is unopened and they have proof of purchase within 14 days.. Fact. The only exemption to this is if a 'no returns policy' is outlined by the vendor during the initial transaction. Good luck to a retailer who denies a refund if the customer changes their mind and wants to return an unopened undamaged item, in the above circumstances. They would be in breach of contract under the sales of goods act and liable to be prosecuted.
So it didn't work out for the scalpers. It's their right to a refund. Now all you US folk could be in possession of a once scalped iPad. Haha...what about returning it? Lol

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********.

I agree, this quote is BS

 

[noteple]

I was only allowed to preorder two.

Maybe you should only be allowed to return two.

 

[JasperJanssen]

Just to clarify the legal issues:

In the UK (which is composed of three completely separate jurisdictions of England & Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but whatever) there is no obligation imposed by any statute (common law tends not to apply as consumer relations are all governed by statute now; it's far easier to regulate and leaves the affairs of society less susceptible to intervention by the ageing - and non-representative - judiciary) on retailers to accept returned goods where there is no evidence of that the goods did not conform to their description or proved faulty. Where either of these instances does occur, the relevant legislative provisions are sections 13 and 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

As far as EU membership is concerned, as a Member State, the UK must enforce all EU Regulations and comply with all EU Directives (both being binding supranational legislative instruments; the former applying across the Union and the latter applying specifically to those Member States named in its address (normally all Member States but sometimes Malta is left out because we keep forgetting it's there), usually allowing a two-year grace period for Member States to incorporate the provisions therein into their national law(s)). Sale of Goods legislation at the supranational level is contained in Directive 1999/44/EC which applies to the UK and has been in force for 13 years. It is not necessary to refer to it at the national level as the national law (SoGA 1979) is already in accordance with it and reference to it would only occur where a challenge was mounted in the ECJ.

Retailers generally provide the policies mentioned for the purposes of goodwill and to establish and maintain customer loyalty and trust. What would stop bulk buying and returning situations are restrictions on the initial purchase quantity.

I'm a final year law student and a retail manager, by the way; it seemed like I should chip in. I'm also ridiculously obsessed with presentation and seem to have edited this thrice already.

A slight addition:

- If your store policies (as, for example, outlined on the receipt) say you accept returns, then you are obligated to accept returns under those conditions. Not doing so after saying initially you would is a breach.

- If you don't say anything about it, you're not required to accept returns, except under the conditions above such as faulty product.


To the best of my knowledge this is also generally the case in the States.

So many conflicting reports about returns....
If the goods are unopened the customer has a right to a full refund providing the box is unopened and they have proof of purchase within 14 days.. Fact. The only exemption to this is if a 'no returns policy' is outlined by the vendor during the initial transaction. Good luck to a retailer who denies a refund if the customer changes their mind and wants to return an unopened undamaged item, in the above circumstances.

Would you mind looking up which law says in the US that, barring an explicit agreement to the contrary, there must be a return policy and there must be at least 14 days? Since you say it is a FACT and everybpdy else here seems to think there is no such law, it should be easy for you to find.

P.S.: In general there is an awful lot of ******** in consumer's mind regarding consumer protection laws. They neither go as far as some people think they do, nor do they eave so much out as others do.

 

[Lukeyy19]

Those rules sound like they apply after the package has been opened and the item has been used.

These iPads are brand new, in still unopened boxes.

Is there a rule for that in the UK?

Thanks!

The same rules apply, if you purchased something, you entered into a legally binding contract, if you then decide you don't want it, that's your fault, not the store, why would they be forced to refund you for your mistake? However, stores in the UK generally offer a 30 day money back guarantee because as long as it comes back unopened they can resell it as new with no effect, and the guarantee gives customers more incentive to buy, but this is a policy implemented by the store, not a law/act.

On the other hand, if you order something online or via mail order, there is regulation that states that you can return an item unopened for any or no reason within 7 days of receiving it, but you are responsible for the cost of sending it back.