Linux Discussion

[boswald]

In many ways, Linux has been its own worst enemy the last few years. Redhat dominates the direction of kernel development, and low level things like the init system. Then, in the name of "standardization," they lobby other distributions to adopt their choices.

If these choices and changes were deliberate, it might be ok. But it seems very much like a new-shiny-thing philosophy, so you never know what the hell is going on. If you take a break from following linux activity for 6 months, you come back and it's a mess.

Which is a real shame, because I have a soft spot for Linux and I want it to succeed. But like you said, it's hard to keep up. Those of us who just want things to work and play our games have to make a tough decision: drive a car (Windows) or build one (Linux).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Which is a real shame, because I have a soft spot for Linux and I want it to succeed. But like you said, it's hard to keep up. Those of us who just want things to work and play our games have to make a tough decision: drive a car (Windows) or build one (Linux).

Yeah I joke, but I have tried Ubuntu like a decade ago, and it was like I can either manage this, or get something done.

Server situations are way different. Servers have specific functions. I don't need to get a LAMP server to use a Lightroom alternative.

 

[jerryjohnson]

After trying a few distros, I think update philosophy matters more than the distro itself. Fedora feels newer and cleaner, but Ubuntu LTS is usually more stable long term. Cosmic looks promising, but still feels a bit early right now.

 

[QuarterSwede]

In many ways, Linux has been its own worst enemy the last few years. Redhat dominates the direction of kernel development, and low level things like the init system. Then, in the name of "standardization," they lobby other distributions to adopt their choices.

If these choices and changes were deliberate, it might be ok. But it seems very much like a new-shiny-thing philosophy, so you never know what the hell is going on. If you take a break from following linux activity for 6 months, you come back and it's a mess.

This is exactly why I went with Debian on my little home server. I know it’s not going to change for 2 years and it’ll be rock solid, which it has been, save for the cheap Kingfast SSD failing (got a new one, ugh current prices, and got back in business). Slapped Gnome 50 whatever on there and it’s close enough to macOSs GUI that I’m happy. Cosmic does look interesting once it matures.

 

[maflynn]

In many ways, Linux has been its own worst enemy the last few years. Redhat dominates the direction of kernel development, and low level things like the init system. Then, in the name of "standardization," they lobby other distributions to adopt their choices.

I'm not sure I get your point.

Are you saying that RHEL is driving the kernel development and no one else contributes meaningful changes? Also what is wrong with other distros adopting similar systems in the name of standardization? One of the biggest complaints with Linux is there's so many different distros doing their own thing, having more standardization is definitely a welcome direction.

I was googling and I've not found any evidence that RHEL is dominating kernel development, I don't think Linus would allow one company undue power. Do you have links/evidence of that? I'm curious to see these and what people are saying about Red Hat making these decisions.

As Fedora (and my extension RHEL), very little has been changing with the recent set of updates. In fact there seems to be grumbling that the minor/under the hood updates with Fedora 44. Some folks seem to be worried it may fall behind some of the other distro's providing more meaningful updates. I'm only referencing the desktop os, not the server os.

 

[maflynn]

Cosmic looks promising, but still feels a bit early right now.

I tried Cosmic, and its definitely not quite there. When it was first released at the end of 2025 (or beginning of 2026), we were led to believe its an official release, only to find out later what they released is the beta. I think they finally updated their pages to say its beta, but that wasn't the case, or at least I hadn't see it being communicated as beta.

I mentioned above, some of the issues, like playing games and having issues with the resolution.

 

[Steve Adams]

Which is a real shame, because I have a soft spot for Linux and I want it to succeed. But like you said, it's hard to keep up. Those of us who just want things to work and play our games have to make a tough decision: drive a car (Windows) or build one (Linux).

If we are using the car anaolgy, I know that when I build a car (I have done this previously btw) the parts and things I put in the car will work as intended. That's not so with Linux. It can work one week then not for 5 months, then work again after a fix, rinse and repeat. I cannot afford down time like that on the mission critical software.

 

[maflynn]

I have to say, the btrfs file system and its snapshot ability is very impressive.

I did something to my system, without going into too much details, but the system went into an emergency mode on a reboot, where I could only review logs. I have the ability to boot into a given snapshot, issue the restore, and reboot. I cannot believe how well this worked, and how hands off the restore worked. I selected the snapshot, it does its thing, and reboot, no terminal commands, no chroot work needed, nothing. just select the snapshot.

I don't fully understand how this works, its not cloning the data, per say, but I was able to roll back an update, through the restore snapshot and re-apply the update correctly

MacOS, has time machine, and that will work. I have no complaints with TM, I've used it and saved my bacon in prior times, but there is a semi-significant down time, depending on the amount of data, and speed of the drive.

Windows has something like this, but I've never used it, so I don't know how it measures up. I know in supporting desktops at work, we just reimage the computers, and don't even try with any restore points.

 

[josehill]

I had to laugh at some of the comments about WindowMaker, especially here are MacRumors. From the project home page:

"In every way possible, it reproduces the elegant look and feel of the NeXTSTEP user interface."​

NeXTSTEP in a VM is a better experience, IMHO, but if you try WindowMaker, you can see some of the elements of modern macOS design pretty much as they appeared in the beginning.

 

[Steve Adams]

Anyone running Affinity studio on their Linux machine? I tried it on my little system and I would get the splash screen but nothing else would happen. Any ideas?

 

[maflynn]

Anyone running Affinity studio on their Linux machine? I tried it on my little system and I would get the splash screen but nothing else would happen. Any ideas?

How are you running it? I only see windows and mac downloads.

 

[Steve Adams]

How are you running it? I only see windows and mac downloads.

Downloaded the wine installer version. I think it's because my linux machine is too old and low powered.

 

[maflynn]

Downloaded the wine installer version. I think it's because my linux machine is too old and low powered.

I used winboat, and it seems to work, performance seemed pretty good but if you're running on aging hardware I'm not sure if that would be acceptable.

 

[romanof]

This is exactly why I went with Debian on my little home server. I know it’s not going to change for 2 years and it’ll be rock solid, which it has been, save for the cheap Kingfast SSD failing (got a new one, ugh current prices, and got back in business). Slapped Gnome 50 whatever on there and it’s close enough to macOSs GUI that I’m happy. Cosmic does look interesting once it matures.

I changed to Debian way back in the day, and for only one reason. I played with Linux when it came out (Slackware) but for several years all you could do with it was code in c. I really liked it because I was trained on Unix, which could not be bought for hobby use. When RedHat 7 hit, that was the first Distro that made a usable desktop. And popular. Every Linux book in the store had the three RedHat CD installers.

7.0, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 were mainstream. V8 came out and was a mess, although I don't remember why. Version 9 was the first Linux to give a plug and play experience like Windows and when the installer was finished you had a full working desktop. With one exception...

Early Debian was a hackers dream (or nightmare.) To install it you had to know every last detail of your system - memory addresses, interupt numbers, etc. Then Sarge (V3) came out and everything changed. Not only did it not need the total understanding of the hardware, but it came with a new (and working!!!) package manager. 'apt-get install something' was the golden key.

To understand that, you have to have used the early Redhat manager, RPM. That probably caused more seizures and systems thrown out of windows (glass) than any recreational drug use.

First problem was that it seldom installed a package correctly, erroring out somewhere along the line. Then if you tried to reinstall, you got the message "Cannot install. Program is already installed." Ok, let's uninstall it. "Cannot uninstall, Program is not installed." And downhill you went and quite often giving up and totally reloading the OS because you destroyed your filesystem trying to make the OS understand that the package wasn't really installed.

Then a fellow techie showed up and said, "Look at this." On a new installation of Sarge, he entered 'apt-get install thisapp'. And it installed. And another and another. An hour of installing this and that and it all worked.

I think our local nerd group probably had almost a 100% swap to the new Distro that very day.

And today, I know nothing about Redhat or RPM, but apt-get on a Debian distro still works every time.

 

[diamond.g]

Well that was fun, I couldn't figure out why some of my systems weren't getting updates, come to find out RH released 9.8 last week and we were explicitly looking at the 9.7 repo which has been "retired".

 

[maflynn]

This is good news
California and Colorado Age Verification Laws Get Open-Source OS Exemptions—SteamOS Enforcement Still Likely

does not apply to "an operating system provider or developer that distributes an operating system or application under license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software without any platform-imposed technical or contractual restrictions imposed by the provider or developer on installing all modified versions."

So this is good news for Linux in general but bad news for SteamOS because the items they listed that they defined for open source operating systems, does not pertain to SteamOS

 

[S.B.G]

This is good news
California and Colorado Age Verification Laws Get Open-Source OS Exemptions—SteamOS Enforcement Still Likely


So this is good news for Linux in general but bad news for SteamOS because the items they listed that they defined for open source operating systems, does not pertain to SteamOS

Isn't the guy in charge of Steam a big Linux guy? I wonder if he would change the licensing terms so they can get the same exemption.

 

[maflynn]

Isn't the guy in charge of Steam a big Linux guy? I wonder if he would change the licensing terms so they can get the same exemption.

So I did a bit more digging here's some of the reasons why SteamOS may not be exempt.

• Cannot redistribute
• Platform restrictions/modifications
• Commercial Entity vs. Community Project

What's more likely? Valve adds age verification, or open source their propriety software. Even then the commercial vs. community litmus test will fail for Valve regardless if they make their entire OS open source

 

[S.B.G]

So I did a bit more digging here's some of the reasons why SteamOS may not be exempt.

• Cannot redistribute
• Platform restrictions/modifications
• Commercial Entity vs. Community Project

What's more likely? Valve adds age verification, or open source their propriety software. Even then the commercial vs. community limus test will fail for Valve regardless if they make their entire OS open source

Well I guess that kinda stinks then.

 

[unsui_grep]

This might be a bit off topic, please direct to a better discussion if anyone is aware of one, but I just picked up a 2015 MBP in good shape for $100 and I'm planning on installing Arch Linux/Hyprland on it for learning and experimentation purposes. I'm more of a hobbyist programmer who's fairly comfortable on the command line and really want to understand how operating systems work. I chose to go with an old Mac it was cheaper than anything on the market at this time and I liked the idea of recycling perfectly good hardware that still feels solid. I know that I'm jumping into the deep-end but that's kind of the point. I also trying to force myself into a keyboard driven workflow for no good reason. Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback, words of caution, or tips. Let me know if I should move this comment onto it's own thread.

 

[S.B.G]

This might be a bit off topic, please direct to a better discussion if anyone is aware of one, but I just picked up a 2015 MBP in good shape for $100 and I'm planning on installing Arch Linux/Hyprland on it for learning and experimentation purposes. I'm more of a hobbyist programmer who's fairly comfortable on the command line and really want to understand how operating systems work. I chose to go with an old Mac it was cheaper than anything on the market at this time and I liked the idea of recycling perfectly good hardware that still feels solid. I know that I'm jumping into the deep-end but that's kind of the point. I also trying to force myself into a keyboard driven workflow for no good reason. Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback, words of caution, or tips. Let me know if I should move this comment onto it's own thread.

Based on what you wrote and that you want to use Arch, and learn the hard way, I suggest that you do not use archinstall and just do it all by command line configuring every piece of the system. archinstall is a somewhat recent method of using a semi-automated install wizard.

Once you get your base system installed and want to run everything via the keyboard, you'll want to avoid DE's or Desktop Environment's like KDE or Gnome, etc. Instead use a WM, or Window Manager such as i3wm (I like i3 gaps), bspwm, dwm, awesome, qtile etc...

I'd suggest dwm if you want to do things the hard way - which is the best way to learn anything, really. 🙂

 

[unsui_grep]

Based on what you wrote and that you want to use Arch, and learn the hard way, I suggest that you do not use archinstall and just do it all by command line configuring every piece of the system. archinstall is a somewhat recent method of using a semi-automated install wizard.

Once you get your base system installed and want to run everything via the keyboard, you'll want to avoid DE's or Desktop Environment's like KDE or Gnome, etc. Instead use a WM, or Window Manager such as i3wm (I like i3 gaps), bspwm, dwm, awesome, qtile etc...

I'd suggest dwm if you want to do things the hard way - which is the best way to learn anything, really. 🙂

Thanks for the suggestions! DWM does seem intense. I'll look into it.

 

[S.B.G]

Thanks for the suggestions! DWM does seem intense. I'll look into it.

From the dwm page.... 😉

Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it's pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its user base small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Downloaded the wine installer version. I think it's because my linux machine is too old and low powered.

If there is an AppImage version available, that's the way to go.

 

[maflynn]

There seems to be sporadic news that the latest Nvidia drivers is causing issues with some folks. Not tied to a single distro, seems to be impacting some folks all over the place.