Logic 8 Thursday?

[xJulianx]

To all of the people complaining about dongles: I am going to assume that you are pro users if you are using Logic Pro, so therefore, you spend a vast amount of your time running Logic Pro. How is remembering the dongle any harder than remembering the keys to your car or house?

If you really find it THAT hard, then put the dongle on your keyring with all of your other keys on. There. Problem solved.

 

[TheSpaz]

I wouldn't mind having a dongle. I hate typing in registration numbers and plus, with only 1 App needing a dongle, it's not that big of a deal. You can walk around and show people how freakin' awesome you are because you have the secret key to a $1000 Pro App. It's like having keys to a Mercedes right? You need keys to drive a car, is it a pain to remember to bring your keys because you need it to start the car?

Like others have said, it stops piracy. I am not a fan of piracy and I don't do it for 2 reasons. One reason is the slight chance that you can get caught and get in trouble and the second reason is that it makes you feel better when you work hard and pay for the Apps you use and own. Also, you have the box and manuals and stuff. If I don't have money for a piece of software I need... I simply save up or live without it... if I don't have the money for it, chances are I probably don't need it.

Logic Express works fine for my recording and editing needs as I am not a Pro. Although I use the entire Adobe Creative Suite at work, I only have Photoshop Elements at home but, for home use, it works great.

 

[tk421]

You don't need an external HD for mobile recording. A large 5400 RPM drive keeps up fine with mono and stereo recordings, which is all you can really do walking around anyway. You can't even spell, so I'm assuming you're a little kid. When you grow up, you'll learn that dongles are a pain in the rear.

Dongles? If you use a desktop, just keep it always plugged in. If you use a laptop, keep it in your laptop bag.

Surely you use a bag, because even if you don't use an external HD, you don't use the built in mic to do mobile recording. There's lots of associated gear. You use microphones and cables, and probably some kind of box (you use XLR right? not just the mini plug on your computer) and maybe mic stands and whatever else.

I use Avid, which uses a dongle, and have used "mobile" editing environments before. It's not a big deal. It's part of the job. And don't call people little kids.

 

[milo]

Folks OS X 10.5 Leopard has %0 marketshare. Pray tell why Apple would wait to deliver a massive upgraded based on an OS with no marketshare.

While I'd generally agree with this, leopard is a major switch (64 bit) and Logic is an app that could get huge benefit from porting to 64 bit. Best case for apple would be a version that ran in either 32 or 64 bit mode, but I don't know if that's possible.

At this point, they absolutely need to be doing a 64 bit version, especially if they're doing a major rewrite anyway. It would be suicide to completely rewrite the program to a new 32 bit version and then have to do a separate update to 64 bit. There are already plugins announced for 64 bit on both mac and PC, if apple is going to hype that feature in 10.5 they need apps that can show it off, and Logic would be a perfect one.[/QUOTE]

Dongles are great; they require no activation which means you can use your software anywhere and on any computer - the dongle in question is undeniably secure and to top it all off it's quick and simple and doesn't require any remembering of passwords, activation codes, serials and all the other guff I struggle with every time one of my hard drives dies that has some synths on or I update my OS etc etc.

That's all great...unless your dongle has hardware failure, which isn't uncommon.

And mobile studio? Pah! You can carry round an external Hard drive (which you'll need if your serious) but can't plug in a dongle to protect the right to a software program that earns you money and will continue to do so during its development?

Don't forget about people with home studio/work studio setups. It's a pain to carry a dongle around (or multiple ones), with challenge/repsonse, usually two or more installs are permitted so that's an advantage.

I really just cannot see how this is a big deal... Carrying around something smaller than pretty much every USB memory stick is not that big a deal, surely?

It's certainly a bigger deal than carrying around nothing. Especially since dongles are susceptible to hardware failure and banging it around on a keychain must increase that risk.

 

[Big Boss Man]

While I'd generally agree with this, leopard is a major switch (64 bit) and Logic is an app that could get huge benefit from porting to 64 bit. Best case for apple would be a version that ran in either 32 or 64 bit mode, but I don't know if that's possible.

Sonar 5 and 6 ships with both 32 bit and 64 bit versions. Another example of how Logic is getting a little long in the tooth.

 

[Bobino]

My theory is similar to that of others who've posted on this thread: strictly from a marketing point of view, Apple would want to release 64bit versions of its Pro Apps (including Logic) along with Leopard and perhaps some killer desktop machines with dual quad processors (8 processor cores). However, Leopard development and development of 64bit versions of Apple's Pro Apps are intertwined suggesting that the apps cannot be finalized until Leopard is finalized - - which might mean that the apps would be released somtime after Leopard's initial release. Until Leopard is released, I would expect only maintenance upgrades of Logic. Logic 8, when it arrives, is likely to have lots of new features and redesigned elements because of the intense competition in this market. After all, Digidesign has just announced a sexy new sampler (Structure) and acquired Sibelius (professional music notation software), MOTU and others have released new versions of their DAWs, Garritan has announced (but not yet released) a completely new kind of Virtual Instrument interface - - so Apple needs to do something spectacular....

 

[L3X]

someone commented on Pro Tools earlier and how clean it looks. It was actually made for Apple early on but Avid/Digidesign realized it would get more sales if it made it for Windows as well. So, that's why it is such a good program, it just works better on a Mac.

Logic 8 should be sweet whenever it comes out. Logic 7 is still a very nice program and has a lot more features than Pro Tools in certain areas.

 

[Edge100]

While I'd generally agree with this, leopard is a major switch (64 bit) and Logic is an app that could get huge benefit from porting to 64 bit. Best case for apple would be a version that ran in either 32 or 64 bit mode, but I don't know if that's possible.

It had better be possible, or you're going to have a LOT of pissed off CoreDuo users, inlcuding me. And, it is possible. Sonar (PC DAW) is 64-bit, but runs on 32-bit hardware. If Apple makes Logic 8 64-bit only, I will leave the platform altogether; end of story.

 

[djbarona]

Logic 8 ? Keep Dreaming

I went to NAMM this afternoon hoping to catch a glimpse or even get my hopes that Apple would be releasing some sort of news about their next Logic update or upgrad. Unfortunately that is not the case ..the show for the most part was un-eventful at best. I spoke to several Apple reps who of course denied any rumors of future updates with Logic at least until Leopard is fully integrated and the software can utilize hyperthreading tech more effeciently.

The best news I received was actually from the "Access" apparently they have revamped their Virus Ti Interface with their upcoming release of 2.0 .you can check out Virus Ti at www.access-music.de . This newest release is supposed to be out this weekend for download. The only fully integrated synth will now allow you to scroll by instrument type and also allow you to "select" an effect from a different instrument and apply to any voice and in the same instance apply a totally different effect to that same instrument and or arpeggio making the selections interchangeable, very kewl and very innovative.

I have to sound like a spokesman for Access but they rule !!

 

[Mr Skills]

Re the dongle thing... I have no problem with it. I just wish Apple would put more USB ports on their computers.
Yes I do have a hub. But it all adds to the clutter.

 

[kanker]

I'd think Apple would allow us to use it on 2 computers, albeit maybe not at the same exact time, which is what the XS Key limits us to in the first place anyway.

In fact, an XS key over 2 computers is a real hassle. If you were to work at home and at a studio and on a mobile setup, you'd have to take your dongle with you everywhere you go (i.e. bring it home from work, take it out on recording, etc.).

If you're using Logic that much professionally, you can spring for a second license. Ideal? No, but imagine having a Studer at work - what would you use at home if you wanted to keep working on a mix? 2 Logic Pro licenses costs a h$%( of a lot less....

 

[pianojoe]

If you're using Logic that much professionally, you can spring for a second license. Ideal? No, but imagine having a Studer at work - what would you use at home if you wanted to keep working on a mix? 2 Logic Pro licenses costs a h$%( of a lot less....

I'd rather put my XS key on my keychain or in my purse than shell out another $1000.

 

[wmmk]

give LE better Guitar and Bass Amp plug ins, give it 16 (or 24 if they're generous) tracks, and clean up the UI. I'd be perfectly willing to pay a 349 or even 399 for that. until then, cubase and it's crapola windows interface for me

(that said, I don't do as much audio work as I used to...)

 

[babyj]

There is some interesting comments in the latest issue of Sound on Sound....

....I can't comment on which, if any, ideas will be incorporated into the mythical Logic 8 (or whatever it's going to be called) because if I did, I would, as the saying goes, have to kill you. Suffice it to say that you need to 'watch this space' for further news.

Whilst the comments don't exactly give much away, they do seem to suggest that a new version is coming sooner rather than later. I'd agree with others here though that a new version before Leopard is extremely unlikely, that would just be plain stupid and Apple ain't stupid. The comment on the name of the next version is interesting, possibly suggesting a name change which in turn would suggest some major changes.

I'd say its a pretty reliable source as well, Sound on Sound is the music recording magazine in the UK, has been going a long time and is very respected. I'd imagine they do get inside information in advance and an exclusive preview / review wouldn't be that surprising either.

They've been asking for suggestions on how Logic can be improved which they've been passing on to Apple, the top suggestions were; sample accurate editing in the arrange page, better midi timing, improved plug in delay compensation and to concentrate more on bug fixes than new features.

 

[macgeee]

logic pro is amazing...it needs quite a few bug fixes and some better editing features! i can't believe there is no 'go to end of region' key command. this really slows me down all the time!
another cool editing feature would be to select several regions and use key command to add crossfade - i use the 'no overlap' editing mode.

logic express is so very crippled! maybe the express users don't realise this. i use key commands for any function i can and when i added my key commands to logic express and tried to edit, i then found that there were so many standard and simple key commands that are just not available. due to this, logic express is useless to me for editing! like 'go to start of region'

 

[JFreak]

Add to this the insane 12 i/o limitation, and it all adds up to one thing: Apple has crippled LE for no reason. I have no issue with leaving features out to justify the lower price point. But don't cripple the ones you give us.

It's so great to hear that LE users of all other DAWs whine about features too. Apparently it isn't a Protools exclusive feature. I have always wondered why on earth people think that companies should give their assets to everyone for free! While I do realise that not everyone can afford the full product and the companies are kind of forced to sell crippled versions, I don't seem to understand why 100 dollar customer should get same benefits than 10 grand customer.

LE people should be happy about being able to use the software in the first place! If the limitations are too much, then maybe that user has outgrown the 100 dollar customer status and needs to fork out money to become a 10 grand customer? Feel like still wanting to be 100 dollar customer? Fine, just use the 100 dollar software and be fine with it. Want to use the 10 grand software? Fine, just pay the money and use it. Do not whine.

Companies have to charge money to be able to continue developing the software which you as user need to be updated every now and then. Supporting the company which products one uses is not an option. Failing to support the company makes the company not develop the software and therefore it makes you as user not use the software when the time comes that the software does not work with current systems. If you're not in the business of making money by using the software, then you do not *need* to use the 10 grand software. If you are, you do not whine about the tool that makes you money.

Whiners. Shut up already!

(Protools LE has 18 i/o limitation. While it's six channels more than 12, it's still rather severe limitation. It is there for a reason. Protools HD on the other hand, it is a modular system and the limitations are rather far away just the way Logic Pro has. You get what you pay for.)

 

[milo]

I'd much rather use Logic express than PTLE, while both are crippled to various degrees, Logic is far less so.

 

[macgeee]

I'd much rather use Logic express than PTLE, while both are crippled to various degrees, Logic is far less so.

this isn't necessarily true in every way.
editing should be the same no matter what
pro tools has incredible editing features and are pretty much the same in the LE & TDM version. with logic pro, editing is already tougher than it needs to be but in LE it's just ridiculous

i want LE to be able to edit on the road and use PRO for mixing and automation, etc. the way LE is crippled with some simple key commands baffles me. i don't mind all the other stuff that's crippled but it's editing we're talking about

 

[Edge100]

It's so great to hear that LE users of all other DAWs whine about features too. Apparently it isn't a Protools exclusive feature. I have always wondered why on earth people think that companies should give their assets to everyone for free! While I do realise that not everyone can afford the full product and the companies are kind of forced to sell crippled versions, I don't seem to understand why 100 dollar customer should get same benefits than 10 grand customer.

LE people should be happy about being able to use the software in the first place! If the limitations are too much, then maybe that user has outgrown the 100 dollar customer status and needs to fork out money to become a 10 grand customer? Feel like still wanting to be 100 dollar customer? Fine, just use the 100 dollar software and be fine with it. Want to use the 10 grand software? Fine, just pay the money and use it. Do not whine.

Companies have to charge money to be able to continue developing the software which you as user need to be updated every now and then. Supporting the company which products one uses is not an option. Failing to support the company makes the company not develop the software and therefore it makes you as user not use the software when the time comes that the software does not work with current systems. If you're not in the business of making money by using the software, then you do not *need* to use the 10 grand software. If you are, you do not whine about the tool that makes you money.

Whiners. Shut up already!

(Protools LE has 18 i/o limitation. While it's six channels more than 12, it's still rather severe limitation. It is there for a reason. Protools HD on the other hand, it is a modular system and the limitations are rather far away just the way Logic Pro has. You get what you pay for.)

With all due respect, this is crap (well, you did tell me to shut up!)

If Apple wants to give us LE as is, that's fine. BUT, why aren't they upfront with it? Why is an "aux" called an "aux" for both LE and LP? They don't DO the same thing, and that's not obvious until you actually use the product. Same for bus objects.

I'm not as critical of the 12 i/o limit, because Apple is upfront with that. Plus, most LE users don't need more than 12 ins/outs at the same time, and if they do, they're probably better suited to LP than LE. HOWEVER, I do get steamed that I cannot choose WHICH 12 ins and outs I can use. This isn't a silly matter, either: if I own a mid-level interface like a TC Konnekt 24D, 4 analog ins, 2 S/PDIF, 8 ADAT (total is 14 ins), in LE, I can only use 6, because I can't use the ADATs at ALL. Same with the MOTU 828, or any other interface with ADAT. I'd love to be able to JUST use the ADAT i/o (8 in/out), but LE doesn't allow that; you only have access to the FIRST 12 inputs.

And the other point is that the value of the extra plugs/instruments in LP has an established value; Emagic sold them as separate products, and they are worth FAR more than the difference between LE and LP. If that were the ONLY difference, I wouldn't be complaining. even if Apple crippled the Auxes, busses, and i/o structure and were honest about it, I wouldn't be mad because I wouldn't have bought LE. But LP is a fantastic value, and LE is a fantastically crippled product, designed solely to get the user to upgrade.

What I'd really like to see is some middle ground product, like Emagic used to offer. I'd pay double the price of LE to have the bus, aux, and i/o structure of LP (minus TDM/HD compatibility). Strip LP of its built-in plugs/instruments, give us the LE equivalents, and I'd be happy. Incidentally, that sequencer would compete VERY well, since it would still have a feature set as good or better than DP, Live, or Cubase. And it wouldn't canibalize LP users, because I would imagine that a lot of frustrated LE users are moving to these other DAWs, rather than moving to LP; that's what I'm going to do soon if Apple doesn't improve LE. The cross-grade to DP isn't that much, and I'd get to use all of my i/o, and have proper busses.

 

[macgeee]

With all due respect, this is crap (well, you did tell me to shut up!)

If Apple wants to give us LE as is, that's fine. BUT, why aren't they upfront with it? Why is an "aux" called an "aux" for both LE and LP? They don't DO the same thing, and that's not obvious until you actually use the product. Same for bus objects.

What I'd really like to see is some middle ground product, like Emagic used to offer. I'd pay double the price of LE to have the bus, aux, and i/o structure of LP (minus TDM/HD compatibility). Strip LP of its built-in plugs/instruments, give us the LE equivalents, and I'd be happy. Incidentally, that sequencer would compete VERY well, since it would still have a feature set as good or better than DP, Live, or Cubase. And it wouldn't canibalize LP users, because I would imagine that a lot of frustrated LE users are moving to these other DAWs, rather than moving to LP; that's what I'm going to do soon if Apple doesn't improve LE. The cross-grade to DP isn't that much, and I'd get to use all of my i/o, and have proper busses.

i agree with you to a large degree. rather leave out the great plugins and leave basic functionality the same

I love logic pro and will continue to use it prefessionaly. When i used express and saw how crippled it was, i just could not use it at all - far too much frustration! they should at least keep the same editing features and routing options.
I'm not sure if it's still the case but it doesn't include the marquee tool. That's the only tool i use for editing. Assigned to right click you quickly select the area of the take you want and option drag it onto a new new composite track. how do people edit with logic express?
LE doesn't even support side chaining at all!!! that's ridiculous! Pro Tools LE and TDM aren't evn crippled like that. You can't even use a 3rd party time stretching plugins like in Logic pro and Pro Tools LE & TDM

LE is just a waste of time
If you disagree, use Pro for while and form your own opinion

 

[TheSpaz]

For someone who is just starting out on Recording and Mixing, Logic Express rocks! I've never used Logic Pro to even see how crippled Express is but, I probably don't know how to use half the features of Pro anyways. For $299, you can't really go wrong with Logic Express and I do believe I paid a fair price for what it can and can't do. I think it's a very powerful App and I will continue to use it until I grow out of it and get Logic Pro. I also like the fact that you can open GarageBand files and expand your earlier projects that were started in GarageBand. I used to be a big fan of GarageBand but, now Logic Express whips it's little wooden butt.

 

[dAlen]

dongle, dongle, dongle....i just dont prefer dongles.

I had Maya back when it was over 7k for complete, (PC of course, no mac version then) and it was dongle.

they got rid of it when they came out for maya for the mac.

Personally, i dont like things sticking out of my computer. Others are fine with it. Just difference in preference.

Peace

dAlen

 

[JFreak]

dongle, dongle, dongle....i just dont prefer dongles.

Me neither. But I also hate piracy as well as software companies do, so I'm fine with *one* dongle that I expect every (audio) software company to support. And to be more specific, I mean iLok key that is already widely supported. Protools HD license is stored into such key, and almost every Protools plugin license requires iLok as well. I'm fine with that.

But if every company uses dongle of its own, that would be a disaster.

 

[Edge100]

Me neither. But I also hate piracy as well as software companies do, so I'm fine with *one* dongle that I expect every (audio) software company to support. And to be more specific, I mean iLok key that is already widely supported. Protools HD license is stored into such key, and almost every Protools plugin license requires iLok as well. I'm fine with that.

But if every company uses dongle of its own, that would be a disaster.

If you hate piracy, then you'll hate the iLok, for which cracks are widely available. The XSKey is the ONLY dongle-based system that has not been cracked, and that's not just because of the limited audience trying to crack it. Even the big PC groups couldn't crack it back in the days of Logic 5, which was available for Windows. Incidentally, the pre-XSKey (pre-ver. 5)Logic dongle was cracked.

iLok isn't the answer. People are going to pirate software, end of story. There is nothing the companies can do about it. So far, Apple/Emagic have the single best protection scheme out there.

 

[meeble]

actually, there is kind of a crack for the EXS key. There were quite a few demo EXS keys created for Logic 6 that came included with some Logic tutorial books. Someone wrote an app that would fool the key into thinking that the demo days never expired. I used that for a second computer for a year or so. it was a pain in the arse, but it worked.