Logic Pro X Gets Refresh for Upcoming Mac Pro

[ninecows]

You're talking major nonsense. The Mac Pro is for a very specific and small segment of "Pro". For example, there are full time coding professional data scientists or econometricians who need a lot of CPU and sometimes RAM often enough that cloud computing is too inconvenient. But most of them have very little use for a 8k Monitor, ECC Memory, and other Mac Pro hardware features.

Personally I'd prefer Mac under somewhat reasonable and justifiable terms. So I guess my future will be Linux.

My point is that you are not Pro enough in the sense that you do not have high enough profit on whatever work you’re doing to justify buying a Mac Pro.

I’m not claiming that you’re not professional or doesn’t need a Unix based platform with high processing power.

I would love to have a Mac Pro my self for running large projects in Logic, but there’s no way I can afford it because I’m an amateur. Even if I did make some money on it, then my salary would have to be very high to justify the investment.
With limited processing power I would need to spend time on freezing tracks, combining or bouncing them etc. Say that would increase the time I spend on a client with 10%. If my rate was sufficiently high (hence the “Pro enough”) that would translate into a lot of profit lost per client and there would be a business case in buying a Mac Pro.
But my ears are not that golden and there’s a better business case for me in an 8 year old iMac and a lot of time wasted bouncing tracks.

 

[Sedulous]

My point is that you are not Pro enough in the sense that you do not have high enough profit on whatever work you’re doing to justify buying a Mac Pro.

I’m not claiming that you’re not professional or doesn’t need a Unix based platform with high processing power.

I would love to have a Mac Pro my self for running large projects in Logic, but there’s no way I can afford it because I’m an amateur. Even if I did make some money on it, then my salary would have to be very high to justify the investment.
With limited processing power I would need to spend time on freezing tracks, combining or bouncing them etc. Say that would increase the time I spend on a client with 10%. If my rate was sufficiently high (hence the “Pro enough”) that would translate into a lot of profit lost per client and there would be a business case in buying a Mac Pro.
But my ears are not that golden and there’s a better business case for me in an 8 year old iMac and a lot of time wasted bouncing tracks.

The problem is that the base model MacPro is not worth the price for anyone. It is actually worth maybe $4k and that is assuming a high value for the case. The premium pricing is because the machine IS upgradable and will likely have low turnover. Apple does not want hardware like this to be mainstream because their new business strategy is all about high turnover appliance-like hardware. Upgradability harms that strategy.

 

[Kevbasscat]

@Kevbasscat

I have been thinking of how to best word my response and after a few revisions, I think this is as coherent as I can make it.

I guess my attitude can best be described as indifferent.

Here's my experience with Apple products. I got my first Apple product - a 27" iMac in 2011. I owned it for about 6 years (upgraded to a 5k iMac in 2017). During this time, I have experienced only 1 screen problem with it, which AppleCare took care of. I don't know if that was the norm, but Apple actually sent someone down to my house to take a look at it, brought it back for servicing, and then had it returned to my house a couple of days later. Otherwise, my iMac hasn't given me any issues since.

I have also had a dead motherboard problem with my 6S+ and the anodisation on my Series 2 Apple Watch peeling, and Apple replaced them for me (both were within AppleCare warranty periods). But apart from them, I haven't had any issues with my apple products.

Prior to this, I had owned numerous windows PCs, and not once have I thought of opening up the internals to upgrade or tinker with it. So while I do agree that all other things equal, having the option to open up your device is better than not having the option to, but let's at least start with buying the right device for the right operation. Laptops/phones/iMacs are bought for the thinness and fashionableness of them at the expense of easy access and user fixability, and I wager the majority of Apple customers are not going to be cracking open their apple products to service them anyways.



I am just quoting this segment but I really mean to address your entire response.

I guess that first and foremost, it is a company's right to decide how accessible and repairable they want their products to be, is it not? If you want a device that can be easily opened up and upgraded / repaired, then maybe don't get a Mac in the first place? I am sure there are tons of PCs that fit the bill. Which brings me to my next point.

It seems to me like the average consumer doesn’t even like using PCs and doesn’t know how they work anymore, so I think the laptop/phone/tablet generation are going to continue to buy these disposable products. Yes, the old laptops used to be operable and openable, but the new super-thin laptops of today are clearly not meant for that, and Microsoft even made one that’s all glued together, so it's not just Apple.

People get excited about MacBook Pros. They just like the look of skinny-thin things. They come with all these limitations, and yet people still like them. Maybe they just look and feel cool. It’s like buying a car that’s super thin, but has no hood that you can reach and requires the dealer to do anything. That’s becoming our future and if people are buying these products, then Apple is going to continue to make more laptops and phones that are not openable, and Apple likes this, because it means people replace their laptops more frequently than they would if they had gone to some PC outlet to get the computer parts they needed. This is the future tech companies have always wanted, and since consumers evidently love thin products, it’s really a marriage made in heaven, so disposable hardware it is!

Second, I don’t necessarily see it as Apple "preventing" people from fixing them. Maybe the way technology is headed is inherently "preventative" and perhaps even better if they are designed this way, because they are more streamlined/cheaper if glued or soldered together? Who knows - maybe the advantage is that they can be thinner, more efficient, and possibly use technology that’s beyond what would be possible if they were held down by ideas of trying to make it accessible?

I do agree that it is more profitable for the company (and initially cheaper for the consumer when they buy the product), but in the long run, it is also more expensive for the consumer. However, the consumers are the ones supporting that future by continuing to buy laptops and iMacs and these other skinny little devices which by their very own admission are extremely hard to access and service.

At the end of the day, it’s probably still better for the consumer to have more money be thrown at these companies, because it means that in theory, they have more money to work with to make more inventions. If we didn’t spend as much money on computers, then it would be less lucrative, there would be fewer investors, which means the market would be smaller and while things would be cheaper for us, and the products themselves probably wouldn’t be as good as they could be. For instance, iPhones are as advanced as they are, because for the last 10 years we’ve been paying a premium towards it, and we see how far that has brought us since Steve Jobs first unveiled it in 2007.

Yes, it is more expensive for us, but that also means we get better service and more investment from these companies into these devices. If we were still using PCs and Macs that had tower frames with user-upgradeable parts, then these computers would last longer and you could argue people would spend less money on them, which means Apple would not have invested in battery or computer technology as much, which means we wouldn’t have our technology as advanced as we do, because they wouldn’t have had the money or financial incentive to do the research, because we didn’t give them the extra money, and instead chose to spend it on food or cars or homes.

The amount of money available at our economy is finite. If we don’t spend on one thing, then the money goes somewhere else. As a society, we have voted with our wallets and chosen to invest more and more of our money on phones and laptops, which means less money for other things, but hopefully this means more innovation and better quality hardware and software, since computers are getting more of our money.

Am I making sense? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As consumers we have the right to be able to choose where and how we want the items we purchase to be repaired . It's called "the right to repair." Apple isn't the only company doing this . But for over 100 years John Deere the tractor company has like every other manufacture allowed its customers to repair that their own tractors Until lately . If you were out in the middle of your 400 acres plowing away and your tractor brakes , and you need to replace even the smallest of components and you do on your own, when you go to start that tractor it doesn't start . Instead it flashes a warning or a display that says "this is a unserviceable tractor by anyone except for John Deere . Please call your John Deere representative and have a service truck come repair your tractor." In farming time is crucial, Because the harvesting of crops has a very specific harvest period before you lose your crop. Now you call a John Deere service company and they will charge you an expedited repair fee just to get you up and running so you can save your crop. When the whole objective of buying that piece of equipment to harvest your crop in a timely manner, And John Deere takes advantage of your situation, leaving you know alternatives, is what I believe everybody would agree that your livelihood what you have worked all your own , and the very traditions passed down generation of a generation of having a tractor that can be repaired in the field by the owners so that they may finish their job in a timely manner . Instead of their crap is being held hostage and you have to pay the ransom, to have your crop set free . That same premise applies to Apple in the professional world and in businesses where producing music or editing film or doing any kind of business related work where time is of the essence. While large corporations can effectively use their resources in emergencies , The majority of small business owners do not have the instant option of just forking over $6000-$40,000 at the drop of a hat so that you can finish your project . There is no sense of loyalty to its customers who have been loyal to them. There is no recognition of the decades many of us have invested in Apple . We pay premium prices for a premium product which means we expect premium service and nothing less. And just like the farmers today they feel as if these long-standing companies have a band and their long-standing user base and have abused their long-standing loyalty. That is not a business model which rewards there a long time loyal use your base. We have been their best and most passionate sales people not because Apple gave us anything for it but because we believed in there and loyalty to us and now suddenly all of that is changed. Thin, is one man's idea of hip , at the expense of apples extremely loyal and zealot like devotion. I'm afraid you don't understand what I'm saying because you have not been emotionally connected and actually love Apple for over two decades. When you invest repeatedly into one company that used to have good service dependable and who would go out of their way to ensure that their customer base was pleased and informed. These great examples of companiesWho have been around for generations and have reputations of solid fair business practices, and great Service, suddenly change their business model and do not appreciate or have any gratitude to the loyalty of his long-time user base that speaks volumes about where their priorities lie and where their loyalty doesn't lie in the longer. Apple is arguably in the top three of the worlds richest companies . They have more than enough resources and sheer capital to continue to provide great service but choose not to you under the guise of pleasing the shareholders who only want to see the stock rise at whatever cost to the consumer. That is it B trail that is so hard to describe and it literally hurts, as if a life partner who had cohabitated with you for decades under the guise of loyalty and then you suddenly find out they're just a harlot. That breaks the trust that was bills over those decades and it's a slap in the face to those who defend it at any cost and paid higher premiums because of the paradigm they created and then abandoned. Your point is your .1 man's point. I'm not speaking for everyone but I can promise you the majority of those who have been around as long as I have and have been his l i'm not speaking for everyone but I can promise you jury of those who have been around as long as I have and have been as loyal feel like we've been cheated and abandoned and those years of dedication or just deceit and lies. what you don't understand is that Apple created an emotional and love-based relationship literally . If you don't believe me go look on these forms and you will find case after case of the apple zealot, feeling betrayed and used . Because back then they would go the extra mile to make sure that you were happy even if it meant repairing a computer seven years old and then saying oh no charge it's under warranty. When that emotional attachment, and loyalty which were a two-way street suddenly become a one-way Alley, in which you suddenly find yourself in and thenDiscovered that they had long before abandoned you. Ask yourself if that was your life partner and you discover that would you stay? Would you rationalize being abandoned for profitability as the right thing to do . There is nothing more important to a company then the Goodwill in which creates . Because nothing sells like word of mouth. And this is not some new paradigm that Apple created . Four or five years ago, I have been a loyal customer to AT&T and I was grandfathered in on every service unlimited. One evening I'm having a text conversation and I get a pop-up from AT&T saying your data limit is reaching it's limit. They did not write they did not call they did not communicate . A couple of weeks later I get a separate bill then my normal AT&T bill for $232 for over use of data. So I called them up and I said I'm afraid you have this wrong I have been grandfathered in for more than 10 years . And the representative said "oh no , we took the unlimited plans and gave them to the brand new customers and we put limits on your plans." I said " so that's how you reward loyalty to your company ?" " yes it is ." The next morning I got up and went to T-Mobile and signed up for telephones with unlimited service for $50 less per month than the two telephones I had with AT&T . See these companies have lost any loyalty to the loyal ones who got them to the place they're at today, and that's heartbreaking , we feel as if we've been used abused cheated on and then walked out and left sitting alone. It's great that for your use case nicely and shiny objects feel your ego and make you feel like your hip. And you'll keep purchasing your hip any cost. Some of us simply have deeper relationships . And we expect that loyalty to be returned because that's how healthy relationships start grow and survive. And some of us don't take it lying down . Some of us have a mission to continually enable these older Macs to work because not everybody can afford to buy a new Mac whenever Apple arbitrarily decides to blacklist your current computer& or iPhone. Because without this businesses would die grandparents would not be able to talk with their grandchildren. I've gone on much too long but what I want to say is that to me it's a moral issue in which Apple clearly shows no empathy or humanity. They have sold the street from pro they have sold those traits which they used to have for profit ability. It's not in difference it's pure ignorance and Indifference, and frankly speaks volumes about where are you place loyalty in your life . You can deny it or laugh but I promise you you will come in from the cold when you most need them only to find out you've been abandoned . Yes it feels very much like human relationships but then again you have to experience the death of a deep healing relationship in order to understand what I'm talking about . That's not a personal attack it is quite frankly one of the new paradigms of a generation who has no loyalty . And with that I'm going to let all this go , take a deep breath, Be grateful for the things I have and the true friends, I've been blessed with. I will not allow this to dictate my emotions because unlike most people think we are in control of our emotions , and our thoughts. More importantly we are responsible for our emotions our thoughts our words and our deeds.
That's the wonderful thing about human beings we each have our own perspective. And the right to express those.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That being said, there are many versions of "right."

Agreed. And, reviewing the pixel dimensions in the mocked up image, the one that’s larger really is only 7% larger than the other and that’s ONLY if you assume one image was pasted on the other at the exact right scale. And, the image being 2D doesn’t account for the height difference. Once you include the motherboard hardware required to mount the memory, AND the clearance, that 7% difference disappears quickly. I also took a look at Apple’s more recent systems and, looking at the MacBook Pro, the 16 GB in the current MBP easily fits into roughly the same space as that 8 GB of memory. This is while still having the the added benefit of requiring very little clearance. I know this probably isn’t the case, but it’s almost as if a worst case scenario of an example image of motherboard RAM was chosen strictly for dramatic effect.

I will concede that it IS indeed easily possible to choose scenarios where it looks like soldered memory takes up more space on a motherboard than socketed memory. Especially, if you ignore height.

 

[AvantiVendingMachines]

That's a good News!

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

Not really. Mac Mini requires a eGPU, is barely upgradable, does not have PCI, just to mention a few things.
And it is way overpriced for what it is.
[doublepost=1560485429][/doublepost]

Neither the Mac mini nor the iMac are good enough, neither they are expandable.
We need a middle power machine that is in between the new Mac Pro and the Mac mini.

That is expandable (with 3 PCI slots and maybe 512RAM). The Mac Pro is an overkill intended high level studios or
This new Mac Pro is to replace the old Mac Server line up. It does not replace the old Mac Pro due to its difference in pricing.
[doublepost=1560485851][/doublepost]

I know many very succesful people that are actually able to pay if they want to. But are NOT willing to pay that kind of money since it is quite expensive and It is an overkill for their needs.

Neither iMac pro nor the iMac are professional level computers that can replace the old Mac Pro. They are barely expandable, SSD cannot even be upgraded, no PCI, and the iMac Pro has not many things Pro about it. Same 10 year old external design that can not even adjust the vertical position. Furthermore, many require to have 2or 3 similar monitors side by side which cannot be achieved with the iMacs.
[doublepost=1560486026][/doublepost]

Your comments clearly show how little you know about music and music plugins. If you do not know, please refrain from making misleading comments. Current sound libraries can easily choke an iMac Pro with 32GB RAM.

Unless you have some arcane use case, if you are using more than 32GB RAM you probably aren't efficiently loading your sample libraries.

 

[xgman]

The one thing about this thread, and most others on macrumors, that is true, Not one single thing said here will affect Apple's product line in any way.

 

[AvantiVendingMachines]

Thank For Sharing this useful information. Before this reading I don't know about this issue.

 

[ninecows]

As consumers we have the right to be able to choose where and how we want the items we purchase to be repaired . It's called "the right to repair." Apple isn't the only company doing this . But for over 100 years John Deere the tractor company has like every other manufacture allowed its customers to repair that their own tractors Until lately . If you were out in the middle of your 400 acres plowing away and your tractor brakes , and you need to replace even the smallest of components and you do on your own, when you go to start that tractor it doesn't start . Instead it flashes a warning or a display that says "this is a unserviceable tractor by anyone except for John Deere . Please call your John Deere representative and have a service truck come repair your tractor." In farming time is crucial, Because the harvesting of crops has a very specific harvest period before you lose your crop. Now you call a John Deere service company and they will charge you an expedited repair fee just to get you up and running so you can save your crop. When the whole objective of buying that piece of equipment to harvest your crop in a timely manner, And John Deere takes advantage of your situation, leaving you know alternatives, is what I believe everybody would agree that your livelihood what you have worked all your own , and the very traditions passed down generation of a generation of having a tractor that can be repaired in the field by the owners so that they may finish their job in a timely manner . Instead of their crap is being held hostage and you have to pay the ransom, to have your crop set free . That same premise applies to Apple in the professional world and in businesses where producing music or editing film or doing any kind of business related work where time is of the essence. While large corporations can effectively use their resources in emergencies , The majority of small business owners do not have the instant option of just forking over $6000-$40,000 at the drop of a hat so that you can finish your project . There is no sense of loyalty to its customers who have been loyal to them. There is no recognition of the decades many of us have invested in Apple . We pay premium prices for a premium product which means we expect premium service and nothing less. And just like the farmers today they feel as if these long-standing companies have a band and their long-standing user base and have abused their long-standing loyalty. That is not a business model which rewards there a long time loyal use your base. We have been their best and most passionate sales people not because Apple gave us anything for it but because we believed in there and loyalty to us and now suddenly all of that is changed. Thin, is one man's idea of hip , at the expense of apples extremely loyal and zealot like devotion. I'm afraid you don't understand what I'm saying because you have not been emotionally connected and actually love Apple for over two decades. When you invest repeatedly into one company that used to have good service dependable and who would go out of their way to ensure that their customer base was pleased and informed. These great examples of companiesWho have been around for generations and have reputations of solid fair business practices, and great Service, suddenly change their business model and do not appreciate or have any gratitude to the loyalty of his long-time user base that speaks volumes about where their priorities lie and where their loyalty doesn't lie in the longer. Apple is arguably in the top three of the worlds richest companies . They have more than enough resources and sheer capital to continue to provide great service but choose not to you under the guise of pleasing the shareholders who only want to see the stock rise at whatever cost to the consumer. That is it B trail that is so hard to describe and it literally hurts, as if a life partner who had cohabitated with you for decades under the guise of loyalty and then you suddenly find out they're just a harlot. That breaks the trust that was bills over those decades and it's a slap in the face to those who defend it at any cost and paid higher premiums because of the paradigm they created and then abandoned. Your point is your .1 man's point. I'm not speaking for everyone but I can promise you the majority of those who have been around as long as I have and have been his l i'm not speaking for everyone but I can promise you jury of those who have been around as long as I have and have been as loyal feel like we've been cheated and abandoned and those years of dedication or just deceit and lies. what you don't understand is that Apple created an emotional and love-based relationship literally . If you don't believe me go look on these forms and you will find case after case of the apple zealot, feeling betrayed and used . Because back then they would go the extra mile to make sure that you were happy even if it meant repairing a computer seven years old and then saying oh no charge it's under warranty. When that emotional attachment, and loyalty which were a two-way street suddenly become a one-way Alley, in which you suddenly find yourself in and thenDiscovered that they had long before abandoned you. Ask yourself if that was your life partner and you discover that would you stay? Would you rationalize being abandoned for profitability as the right thing to do . There is nothing more important to a company then the Goodwill in which creates . Because nothing sells like word of mouth. And this is not some new paradigm that Apple created . Four or five years ago, I have been a loyal customer to AT&T and I was grandfathered in on every service unlimited. One evening I'm having a text conversation and I get a pop-up from AT&T saying your data limit is reaching it's limit. They did not write they did not call they did not communicate . A couple of weeks later I get a separate bill then my normal AT&T bill for $232 for over use of data. So I called them up and I said I'm afraid you have this wrong I have been grandfathered in for more than 10 years . And the representative said "oh no , we took the unlimited plans and gave them to the brand new customers and we put limits on your plans." I said " so that's how you reward loyalty to your company ?" " yes it is ." The next morning I got up and went to T-Mobile and signed up for telephones with unlimited service for $50 less per month than the two telephones I had with AT&T . See these companies have lost any loyalty to the loyal ones who got them to the place they're at today, and that's heartbreaking , we feel as if we've been used abused cheated on and then walked out and left sitting alone. It's great that for your use case nicely and shiny objects feel your ego and make you feel like your hip. And you'll keep purchasing your hip any cost. Some of us simply have deeper relationships . And we expect that loyalty to be returned because that's how healthy relationships start grow and survive. And some of us don't take it lying down . Some of us have a mission to continually enable these older Macs to work because not everybody can afford to buy a new Mac whenever Apple arbitrarily decides to blacklist your current computer& or iPhone. Because without this businesses would die grandparents would not be able to talk with their grandchildren. I've gone on much too long but what I want to say is that to me it's a moral issue in which Apple clearly shows no empathy or humanity. They have sold the street from pro they have sold those traits which they used to have for profit ability. It's not in difference it's pure ignorance and Indifference, and frankly speaks volumes about where are you place loyalty in your life . You can deny it or laugh but I promise you you will come in from the cold when you most need them only to find out you've been abandoned . Yes it feels very much like human relationships but then again you have to experience the death of a deep healing relationship in order to understand what I'm talking about . That's not a personal attack it is quite frankly one of the new paradigms of a generation who has no loyalty . And with that I'm going to let all this go , take a deep breath, Be grateful for the things I have and the true friends, I've been blessed with. I will not allow this to dictate my emotions because unlike most people think we are in control of our emotions , and our thoughts. More importantly we are responsible for our emotions our thoughts our words and our deeds.
That's the wonderful thing about human beings we each have our own perspective. And the right to express those.

Allow me to summarize:

That’s capitalism.

All companies are expected to have an increase in profit year by year. At some point they will have to screw customers in the a** to achieve that.

 

[Mixboarder13]

You’re welcome!

 

[dspdoc]

View attachment 858545 You’re welcome!

I wish!

 

[SeattleMoose]

Allow me to summarize:

That’s capitalism.

All companies are expected to have an increase in profit year by year. At some point they will have to screw customers in the a** to achieve that.

Contrary to the argument that the Capitalist "Pyramid" needs an ever expanding base of consumers to stay profitable, after the Black Death swept Europe in 1349 and killed half the population, those who were left enjoyed higher wages and great abundance in the following decades. After 1349 there were a LOT of changes to society and young/fresh companies did VERY well. The old lumbering dinosaurs...crumbled.

 

[Ploki]

View attachment 858545 You’re welcome!

looks like someone slapped a logic-ish skin on reaper.

 

[ninecows]

Contrary to the argument that the Capitalist "Pyramid" needs an ever expanding base of consumers to stay profitable, after the Black Death swept Europe in 1349 and killed half the population, those who were left enjoyed higher wages and great abundance in the following decades. After 1349 there were a LOT of changes to society and young/fresh companies did VERY well. The old lumbering dinosaurs...crumbled.

I guess we are off topic now anyways so here we go:

I don’t see anything contradictory about this.

If you wipe out 1/3 of the earths population the rest will have more food, fun and opportunities. Less competition.

The point I was going for was that only economists and insane people believe in continuous growth in a closed system (like the earth). Keep a slow enough growth rate and you’ll be alright for decades or even centuries. But you can’t do it forever. Double digit growth rates are not sustainable for long.

As an example I’m in the detergent business. Hard to maintain growth in that unless the customer base is increased or people suddenly start to wash their close more often.