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Looking for alternatives to Mac since Arrandale won't come out thread

HLdan said:
Scottsdale, many people here know you hate Apple and you have a score to settle, but if you're gonna tell the story, at least to whole the story. If you could easily choose a Sony Z without bloatware at zero cost anyone would. This option is only available when you choose Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit for an extra $50 USD. You cannot choose any other version of Windows.
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Funny that you said I "hate" Apple but that's just not true. I absolutely LOVE the MacBook Air. In addition, I love the 27" iMac, I love the 24" LED ACD (which I have purchased three of), I love the AirPort Extreme Base Station, I love the iPhone, I love the iPod, and I believe I will love the iPad. I also really love the Mac Pro, but I have no use for one. I bought each of my kids a 13" MBP just a few months ago. We have three current model Mac notebooks, three current model ACDs, and we all have at least two iPods, I have an iPhone, and I already ordered an iPad. I would have ordered three iPads if they had a camera built-in. So, this crap that I hate Apple is NONSENSE!

What I hate about Apple is Steve Jobs's poor decision-making and publicly bashing its competitors. I believe a leader should lead its company to championing the best in itself by standing out against STRONG competitors. Jobs bashing Adobe is ridiculous. Jobs bashing Google is absurd. Jobs thinking he owns multitouch is the most ludicrous idea since Gore said he "invented" the Internet. Google even left multitouch off the Nexus One in America trying to respect Jobs's crazy ideas, but he still went BALLISTIC! Someone on Apple's board needs to contain Jobs madness yet let through his creativity!

I would greatly prefer Jobs to come out and say, Adobe is our competition and Flash provides content for free where we have to secure the sale of content model over ad-paid content model. Therefore, we will not support Flash on our iPads or iPhones, ever unless we can find a way to provide a seamless experience that also pays us for providing the content. In addition, we will NEVER let Adobe have access to our APIs for further Flash development on Mac OS X. If he came out and said that instead of flat out lying about Adobe and Flash being trash (opinion not truth). Then, he needs to come out with a solution that works RIGHT NOW for everyone buying an iPad! Then, he needs to never say a bad word about ANY of his competitors again.

I love Apple, and I can appreciate Jobs creativity, but I don't want Apple's board to let Jobs ruin the Apple brand, make a joke of Apple by publicly bashing the competition unfairly, or deny users the experiences they are paying for... and I definitely want Jobs to act like a respectable leader instead of an aloof jerk (* not the real word I would have used there if this wasn't a public forum) who thinks his crap doesn't stink and doesn't care what the end user really wants as he will define it in his own mind! The AAPL stock price will continue to rise of Apple's board leads the company and Jobs leads creativity within the company!
 
my alternative to a macbook/macbook pro

I could not wait any longer for the MBP release so I decided to hold off on my switch from pc to mac.

FYI, I decided to go for a Tablet PC with discrete graphics instead:

HP TouchSmart tm2t customizable Notebook PC

* • Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
* • Intel(R)Core(TM)2 Duo SU9600 (1.60GHz, 800MHz FSB) w/512MB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4550 Graphics
* • 4GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
* • 500GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
* • 12.1" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP LED Widescreen (1280x800) (multi-touch screen and active digitizer)
* • External Tray LightScribe Super Multi 8X DVD+/-RW w/Double Layer
* • Webcam
* • Intel Wireless-N Card with Bluetooth
* • HP Color Matching Keyboard
* • Extra 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (total: 2x 6-cell battery; ~7-10hours of use)
* • Microsoft(R) Works 9.0

Total $1390

What I wish this has is a back-lit keyboard and an i3 processor.
 
I would like to recommend you to watch a video with Jobs and Gates.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/steve-jobs-bill-gates-at-d5/id256972720?uo=4

Steve Jobs said "Who cares what is inside it any more" (minute 48) In general about electronics. Note also how much was said about an iPad in this video.

I'm also holding with my purchase because. I don't need new laptop right now. I have an iPod touch. If you really need new laptop you already have one.

Newer will be better and will last longer. Because it will be compatible for longer time. I'm planning to use my Arrandale MBP for 4-5 years. So it's worth to wait till April or till end of June (WWDC). May be I will wait till Back to school to grab free ipod.
I'm waiting It will be cheaper. I hope actually I believe in it.
 
soeharyo said:
I could not wait any longer for the MBP release so I decided to hold off on my switch from pc to mac.

FYI, I decided to go for a Tablet PC with discrete graphics instead:

HP TouchSmart tm2t customizable Notebook PC

* • Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
* • Intel(R)Core(TM)2 Duo SU9600 (1.60GHz, 800MHz FSB) w/512MB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4550 Graphics
* • 4GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
* • 500GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
* • 12.1" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP LED Widescreen (1280x800) (multi-touch screen and active digitizer)
* • External Tray LightScribe Super Multi 8X DVD+/-RW w/Double Layer
* • Webcam
* • Intel Wireless-N Card with Bluetooth
* • HP Color Matching Keyboard
* • Extra 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (total: 2x 6-cell battery; ~7-10hours of use)
* • Microsoft(R) Works 9.0

Total $1390

What I wish this has is a back-lit keyboard and an i3 processor.
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honestly sounds like a huge downgrade. Hp home products are not known for their quality. And for the price you paid you could have gotten a x210t thinkpad with a pro quality screen and i7 low wattage CPU. But thinkpads tablet use integrated graphics.
 
calvingsc said:
Dude, I am just sharing this with people who might be on a budget and would like to buy a laptop with intel's new processors.

It's not wrong to have options/choices.
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MacBooks are not budget laptops in any way, shape, or form. So I do not see how any ideapad is alternative to MacBooks. Apples MacBook pros are solid aluminum otherthan the hinge and are thin and light with good battery life. Ideapads are poor engineered plastic notebooks with just enough in specs to steer people toward them.
 
kny3twalker said:
MacBooks are not budget laptops in any way, shape, or form. So I do not see how any ideapad is alternative to MacBooks. Apples MacBook pros are solid aluminum otherthan the hinge and are thin and light with good battery life. Ideapads are poor engineered plastic notebooks with just enough in specs to steer people toward them.
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Fair enough, But not everyone goes for a MBP merely just for its built and battery life.
 
kny3twalker said:
MacBooks are not budget laptops in any way, shape, or form. So I do not see how any ideapad is alternative to MacBooks. Apples MacBook pros are solid aluminum otherthan the hinge and are thin and light with good battery life. Ideapads are poor engineered plastic notebooks with just enough in specs to steer people toward them.
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Well, some of the IdeaPads are more powerful than the most powerful MBP. You are right that MacBooks are not budget friendly but there is nothing good about that. Would you also call MacBooks (not Pros) to be "poor engineered plastic notebooks"?
 
lilo777 said:
Well, some of the IdeaPads are more powerful than the most powerful MBP. You are right that MacBooks are not budget friendly but there is nothing good about that. Would you also call MacBooks (not Pros) to be "poor engineered plastic notebooks"?
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about the unibody MacBook do not put words in my mouth. My comment was about the general home user laptop market like ideapads, inspirons, acers and gateways, etc... It's obvious to anyone that has ever spent time with a white or black MacBook that they are a step up.
And so what about power, wait for the next MacBooks and it will even itself out. If you are in a rush and do not want the core 2 duo go buy a windows machine. There are alternatives just they are not normally home consumer laptops.
And as far as costs, you get what you pay for.
 
I looked at the HP Envy 15 earlier today and I'm really liking the specs but can't find any reviews for the 2nd generation. I read a couple reviews for the 1st gen with a quad core i7 and they all noted how hot the laptop got. I was looking to get a mid or high i5 in it and was wondering if you guys knew of any reviews for the i5 model or if anyone owns one and could let us know how hot it runs. I'm pretty excited about the 1 gig ATI 5830 because I plan on playing The Old Republic when it comes out next year and my p.o.s. Dell melted a couple weeks ago out of warranty. I was heavily considering an MBP but as a college student about to graduate I can't part with over 2 grand for a laptop with weaker tech than my old Dell. Any help is greatly apreciated!

Sent from my iPod : P
 
The second gen Envy 15 is a different machine on the inside (AFAIK, they redesigned the cooling system). With the i5 (saw this regarding the 520m), they are supposedly capable of at least 3 hours, 3.5 if you really squeeze the battery.

AFAIK the i5s run much cooler though.

I'd suggest checking the owner's lounge at forum.notebookreview.com if you want to try that ;)

I <3 the F because it never gets hot. Even when doing stuff, the surface of the machine just gets warm at most, never hot. lol.
 
kaiserben said:
There's also the after sale service, the quality of the materials, macOS X... If you need a laptop for 5 years, it counts a lot in a purchase decision.
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The quality of the materials argument only works for the MacBook Pro. The MacBook is a piece of garbage, and this goes from my experience in owning a couple now.

Of course, that's nothing new - the iBook was a piece of garbage too.

The MacBook Pro can't touch the PowerBook G4 in terms of reliability, though. The Unibody is still having to gain its respect for the name, because the initial MBPs had those crappy 8600ms that became desoldered and caused problems.

Ironically, one of my best friends had less problems with his 8600m MBP than he did with the unibody that he replaced it with. Go figure XD

Not saying the MBP isn't better than say, a Vaio F series. It is, at least in terms of the case. The 15 and 17" MBP are fairly solid machines (I can't buy that glass screen crap, though), but they really, really cost that.

A 17" MBP costs at least $2200
A 15" MBP costs at least $1600

I paid $1350 for my Vaio F and it has quite a few things the MBP doesn't have, the MBP only has 2 things the Vaio F doesn't, well 3 if you count OS X:
* Aluminum case
* Battery life
* OS X

As someone who has been using OS X as their primary operating system for 9 years, I can say I don't give a flying F what OS my F runs. :)
 
JoeG4 said:
The quality of the materials argument only works for the MacBook Pro. The MacBook is a piece of garbage, and this goes from my experience in owning a couple now.

Of course, that's nothing new - the iBook was a piece of garbage too.

The MacBook Pro can't touch the PowerBook G4 in terms of reliability, though. The Unibody is still having to gain its respect for the name, because the initial MBPs had those crappy 8600ms that became desoldered and caused problems.

Ironically, one of my best friends had less problems with his 8600m MBP than he did with the unibody that he replaced it with. Go figure XD

Not saying the MBP isn't better than say, a Vaio F series. It is, at least in terms of the case. The 15 and 17" MBP are fairly solid machines (I can't buy that glass screen crap, though), but they really, really cost that.

A 17" MBP costs at least $2200
A 15" MBP costs at least $1600

I paid $1350 for my Vaio F and it has quite a few things the MBP doesn't have, the MBP only has 2 things the Vaio F doesn't, well 3 if you count OS X:
* Aluminum case
* Battery life
* OS X

As someone who has been using OS X as their primary operating system for 9 years, I can say I don't give a flying F what OS my F runs. :)
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Then again, aluminum case is just different. Not necessarily better. VAIO Z has carbon fiber case which is lighter than MBP and probably stronger too.
 
Oh I don't believe it's all a good thing, the MBP has sharp edges and has a habit of digging into people's arms as they use it.

The Sony Z probably compares nicely, I have yet to use one in person - but the Sony F sits in between a MacBook and MacBook Pro as far as build quality goes.

I've held my F series from the front corner of the palmrest while open, there is a slight amount of case flex, but doing the same to my brother's white (last gen) MacBook causes a lot more flex!

I'd be weary of a laptop that had too much flexing anyway, stresses the motherboard too much!!!

The Z is more of a 13" MBP killer. You will feel disenchanted by it when you buy one, bring the machine home, and find that it comes in a very basic cardboard box. The box still functions as a suitcase, sure, but it's not Apple lol.

The power brick that comes with it is also very basic. If my F series is any comparison, it'll be a very basic black brick the size of a Hot Pocket (do Mac guys here even know what a Hot Pocket is?)

(My F series' power brick is more the size of a french bread pizza... omg.

There's no fancy magsafe stuff, it just plugs in like a pair of headphones you know? There's no battery meter either, and while the laptop will sleep when you close it, you have to press a key on the keyboard to wake it up when you open it.

The keyboard also isn't as good as a MBP keyboard. Again, pretty sure the Sony F and Z use similar enough keyboards that my verdict there is valid. Granted, you will grow to like the keyboard!

The trackpad.. again, you can grow to like it.. sorta.

One has to remember the amount of power they harness :)
 
Hey guys, where'd everybody go? Today is the day I need to pick my PC. Well, tomorrow I guess.
Is Sager really the way to go?
 
complexcommunic said:
Yeah, I'm looking at 16 to 18 inches... What is the build quality of the MSI's?
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The MSI has some high quality, lighter weight models. Only thing is--you don't get very high screen resolutions. They are usually 1920x 1280.

Sager has heavier models but better guts. Also Sager really isn't sager the real computer co. is called clevo. both have good reputations. i was looking at a one of the newer clevo models this am. 640m chip and an ATI graphics card all in a 6 pound case. pretty close to a MBP
 
gadgetfreaky said:
The MSI has some high quality, lighter weight models. Only thing is--you don't get very high screen resolutions. They are usually 1920x 1280.

Sager has heavier models but better guts. Also Sager really isn't sager the real computer co. is called clevo. both have good reputations. i was looking at a one of the newer clevo models this am. 640m chip and an ATI graphics card all in a 6 pound case. pretty close to a MBP
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Yeah, looking at the MSI's I don't think they're high enough spec'd for me. Sager is the USA division of clevo though, right?
 
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